Ron Paul ambushed by Jesse Watters

[웃 910]

[Danno 1,228]

Not sure I would call that an ambush,.

RP always seems to be in a defense mode, he needs to retool his style of communicating his ideas.

[slim 1,530]

Why doesn't anybody care about the constitution?

Best. Line. Ever.

[Captain Oates 911]

Why doesn't anybody care about the constitution?

Best. Line. Ever.

The bit about the separation of church and state (1st) is generally ignored

I especially like the 21st amendment but I celebrate it responsibly

[slim 1,530]

The bit about the separation of church and state (1st) is generally ignored

When has congress made a law regarding religion?

[Captain Oates 911]

When has congress made a law regarding religion?

States have made MANY laws regarding religion - these laws are still on the books and totally exclude non believers

from holding State Office or even being a witness in Court

They are unconstitutional but the religion dominated State legislatures refuse to repeal these laws

Rick Perry has political/religious prayer meetings - how inclusive is that

People are sworn in using bibles which must be a downer for muslims - and I had to swear to god for naturalization - or join the 6 month special line

Long way to go before we get religion out of government

The 1st is ignored

[slim 1,530]

States have made MANY laws regarding religion - these laws are still on the books and totally exclude non believers

from holding State Office or even being a witness in Court

States? Also, if you're going to make those claims, why not post some evidence.

They are unconstitutional but the religion dominated State legislatures refuse to repeal these laws

States again? If you're concerned about state laws they're pretty easy to challenge in the Supreme Court.

Rick Perry has political/religious prayer meetings - how inclusive is that

Who's Rick Perry? Last time I checked, he had nothing to do with the First Amendment.

People are sworn in using bibles which must be a downer for muslims - and I had to swear to god for naturalization - or join the 6 month special line

Right off the website -

For example, you may be

unwilling to recite the words

‘so help me God’ in the Oath

of Allegiance because of your

religious training and belief.

Consequently, you may provide

to USCIS a written notice to

request a modified Oath of

Allegiance which refrains from

reciting ‘so help me God.’

Long way to go before we get religion out of government

What you're mistaking for mandatory government religion being forced down your throat is actually the time-honored, Christian-based heritage of this country. Keep in mind, there is no "separation of church and state" there is a restriction on mandating inclusion into religious practices. Simply put, the government can't make you do anything religious or restrict your right to practice the religion of your choosing.

When you look at each of these so-called "religious infractions" there's always a way to opt out of them. And that way is not sitting in jail, it's simply filing a paper or providing evidence of why you don't do it the same way as everyone else. That's not infringing upon your right to practice as you see fit, it's requiring everyone to comply with the standard or provide evidence of why they have a religious or moral objection to doing so.

The 1st is ignored

I'm still waiting on evidence of any case where that's happened.

Keep in mind during your google search that the first doesn't say religion can't be a part of government, it says congress can't make laws restricting it.

[Captain Oates 911]

States? Also, if you're going to make those claims, why not post some evidence.

States again? If you're concerned about state laws they're pretty easy to challenge in the Supreme Court.

Who's Rick Perry? Last time I checked, he had nothing to do with the First Amendment.

Right off the website -

For example, you may be

unwilling to recite the words

‘so help me God’ in the Oath

of Allegiance because of your

religious training and belief.

Consequently, you may provide

to USCIS a written notice to

request a modified Oath of

Allegiance which refrains from

reciting ‘so help me God.’

What you're mistaking for mandatory government religion being forced down your throat is actually the time-honored, Christian-based heritage of this country. Keep in mind, there is no "separation of church and state" there is a restriction on mandating inclusion into religious practices. Simply put, the government can't make you do anything religious or restrict your right to practice the religion of your choosing.

When you look at each of these so-called "religious infractions" there's always a way to opt out of them. And that way is not sitting in jail, it's simply filing a paper or providing evidence of why you don't do it the same way as everyone else. That's not infringing upon your right to practice as you see fit, it's requiring everyone to comply with the standard or provide evidence of why they have a religious or moral objection to doing so.

I'm still waiting on evidence of any case where that's happened.

Keep in mind during your google search that the first doesn't say religion can't be a part of government, it says congress can't make laws restricting it.

I think you are confusing the requirement to serve in the military where one must prove religious reasons/training etc

That was no problem for me as my family have been killing people at the suggestion of politicians for milennia. WE like it. Even when they kill us we like it. We are very American that way.

But when it comes to oaths, how can I prove I am an atheist ? eh ?

My point is that they make it hard and there are considerable delays if you step away from the god thing. I wasnt prepared to be messed around for more months by religious freaks who can be incredibly vindictive as you will have seen on VJ

The USCIS should be a god free zone. Do you agree or do you think the 'christian heritage' should be the framework for the USCIS ? Perhaps the USCIS swearer should have black robes and a crucifix to emphasize the christian heritage ?

I say the USCIS is government and they shouldn't be dealing in god stuff.

You can google the states who deny atheists rights (even though they cant enforce it in theory). There are several and they will not repeal. You can guess where they are - that area of the country I don't like to transit through.

If I say hiking the Appalachian trail ?

[slim 1,530]

I think you are confusing the requirement to serve in the military where one must prove religious reasons/training etc

That was no problem for me as my family have been killing people at the suggestion of politicians for milennia. WE like it. Even when they kill us we like it. We are very American that way.

The military can require service of folks who are conscientious objectors but those folks can choose to omit god from their oath. Although, I'm not sure how you can claim a conscientious objection without god!

"I just don't like to kill people." Good enough for me. Go wash some pots and pans and when Charlie overruns the perimeter, explain to him why you do or don't believe in god, will or won't kill people, etc.

As you well know, there's no such thing as race, sex, beliefs, etc., in a foxhole. There is only a will to survive or there's imminent death.

But when it comes to oaths, how can I prove I am an atheist ? eh ?

If you're an atheist, why would taking an oath on something you don't believe in anyway bother you?

I guess you could claim you'd rather swear to Uncle Sam or some other fictitious entity that's more closely related to the US than a god you don't believe in. However, I don't see the point since god shouldn't be offensive since you don't believe anyway. It's like having a holiday for atheists. How can you have a holiday for something that doesn't exist?

I would think you'd have more of a problem renouncing your allegience to the old country than your allegience to god. If you were OK with that, what's the big deal about god?

My point is that they make it hard and there are considerable delays if you step away from the god thing. I wasnt prepared to be messed around for more months by religious freaks who can be incredibly vindictive as you will have seen on VJ

It says you can apply for a modified oath at the time of submission. That should take care of any delay. See. There's always a way to leave god out of it!

The USCIS should be a god free zone. Do you agree or do you think the 'christian heritage' should be the framework for the USCIS ? Perhaps the USCIS swearer should have black robes and a crucifix to emphasize the christian heritage ?

Now we're getting to the meat and potatoes.

I believe the 'christian heritage' of this country was set up in such a way as to allow anyone - regardless of religion or lack thereof - to participate fully in all governmental activities. There's a huge difference between mandatory participation and voluntary inclusion.

Nothing dealing with god in the US, USCIS or otherwise, is mandatory.

I say the USCIS is government and they shouldn't be dealing in god stuff.

As far as I know, they don't. At the end of the oath folks say, "so help me god." Is that religion? To me it sounds like mere words. Words you can believe in or not believe in and words that definitely have no legal authority. "But you swore to GOD!" When's the last time you heard that in court?

The oath is not enforceable because it's taken on a bible or sworn to this god or that god, but because it's you acknowledging compliance with the legal system of the United States.

You can google the states who deny atheists rights (even though they cant enforce it in theory). There are several and they will not repeal. You can guess where they are - that area of the country I don't like to transit through.

If I say hiking the Appalachian trail ?

States have some leeway in applying their laws.

Look here in Ohio. We're not allowed to have loaded magazines in the same vehicle as a firearm capable of shooting them. How unconstitutional is that?