Armed Student, squares off with armed robber.

[slim 1,530]

At that point, police say the suspect started shooting, and hit Eels in the stomach.

But Eels was able to fight back. He drew his own legal pistol and fired, hitting the attacker in the chest and leg.

Ah see, you continue to make assumptions. Our victim might have been the only shooter if only he was armed. The story doesn't include any details regarding who drew their gun first.

Pay close attention to the way the story is worded, specifically the "suspect started shooting" followed by "drew his own pistol" and you'll kind of get an idea as to how this played out.

And just for your information, it doesn't matter who drew first since the victim was robbed on his own porch. Once the robbers demanded money he was well within his rights to draw a pistol on them since robbery is a violent crime and he could've been in fear for his life. I'm unaware of the specific state laws there but in most states it's perfectly acceptable to shoot someone on your own porch once they've chosen to victimize you.

[Ban Hammer 13,498]

Ah see, you continue to make assumptions. Our victim might have been the only shooter if only he was armed. The story doesn't include any details regarding who drew their gun first.

it's fairly clear in the story who did what first. you might want to reread it again.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

it's fairly clear in the story who did what first. you might want to reread it again.

I re-read it and there is the implication the victim may have drawn his gun after the robber began shooting but the first paragraph implies differently. I would suggest the facts are indeed missing as to when and by whom the first gun was drawn.

I have all sympathy for the victim, none for the robber, nor have I suggested all guns be outlawed and/or confiscated but this story in the OP is hardly a ringing endorsement that having a gun helped this victim much.

[Danno 1,228]

I re-read it and there is the implication the victim may have drawn his gun after the robber began shooting but the first paragraph implies differently. I would suggest the facts are indeed missing as to when and by whom the first gun was drawn.

I have all sympathy for the victim, none for the robber, nor have I suggested all guns be outlawed and/or confiscated but this story in the OP is hardly a ringing endorsement that having a gun helped this victim much.

I this case you may or may not be right but my firm point is... let people decide for them self how best to resist a criminal or not.

If the victim prevails in only 50 or 25% of the time, it should be their right, other wise the Government is taking that most basic freedom away.

A handgun is really just a basic tool to defend ones self,

and the use of a handgun comes with the scrutiny of doing so responsibly as laws spell this out.

One can't just fire through a school yard to shoot a fleeing criminal or he himself becomes subject to prosecution.

[slim 1,530]

I re-read it and there is the implication the victim may have drawn his gun after the robber began shooting but the first paragraph implies differently. I would suggest the facts are indeed missing as to when and by whom the first gun was drawn.

So the headline said shootout and you're worried about who pulled first?

This man was on his front porch.

If someone is robbed on their front porch, should they wait for the robber to pull a gun before they do? Is it wrong for someone to defend themselves in the middle of the night on their own front porch?

I can't believe you're trying to give this most basic right away. I mean, seriously, sit back and think about what you're implying here. You're basically saying a robber has to present a gun to you before you can draw your own while sitting on your front porch in the middle of the night. Is that something you seriously don't think should be a protected right?

While you're contemplating that, consider also how safe that makes it for robbers to operate on front porches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGqiULYbt5Y

[Ready to do it 101]

I certainly can insinuate that because the victim had a gun he got shot. Who knows what would've happened if he didn't.

Too many people have a pansy mentaility? We have different views. It's called common sense and worth of life.

See, if someone comes in to rob my home, I get all my family out and we go to a neighbors.

If someone comes up to my car with a gun, the car is now his.

If someone with a gun asks for my jewelry and a wallet, they are his.

Insurance covers anything they could possibly want from my home, etc. Why risk my life? In fact, if someone did come into my home with a gun and we fled, I probably would wait till I knew they were gone BEFORE calling the police simply to prevent any injury to anyone... the crooks or the police.

You think too many people have a pansy mentaility. I think too many people have this instinct that death or injury to others is ok. All these murderous wars over the years have brainwashed people into thinking that killing is ok. I'm not buying it.

Don't take this personal but your comments ring of the Pansy mentality which is held b way too many these days.

You have no idea how that exchange went yet you blame the victim for resisting.

[Danno 1,228]

In fact, if someone did come into my home with a gun and we fled, I probably would wait till I knew they were gone BEFORE calling the police simply to prevent any injury to anyone... the crooks or the police.

[slim 1,530]

See, if someone comes in to rob my home, I get all my family out and we go to a neighbors.

Must be nice to have the time to weigh your options before making a decision. "Hold on, Mr. Robber. I'm going to relocate my family before you go through the house."

If someone comes up to my car with a gun, the car is now his.

Once again, must be nice to have time to weigh your options and decide accordingly.

If someone with a gun asks for my jewelry and a wallet, they are his.

Asks? Is that how it goes? "'Scuse me, sir. May I have your jewelry?"

Insurance covers anything they could possibly want from my home, etc. Why risk my life? In fact, if someone did come into my home with a gun and we fled, I probably would wait till I knew they were gone BEFORE calling the police simply to prevent any injury to anyone... the crooks or the police.

Have you ever heard of those incidents where someone enters a home and rapes/kills everyone inside simply because they can?

You're acting as if there's zero risk in a robbery because you have the option to simply walk out the back door. Are you sure that's an option? I'd like to remind you, it's not your decision to make!

You think too many people have a pansy mentaility. I think too many people have this instinct that death or injury to others is ok. All these murderous wars over the years have brainwashed people into thinking that killing is ok. I'm not buying it.

You don't have to buy it. Someone will take it from you.

I wonder if you'll be so OK with it when the armed intruder decides to rape your daughter while you watch? Will insurance cover that?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Slim having a gun only increases the chances of gun play in a violent situation. The relevant "fact" in this OP is the armed victim was shot. No more, no less.

It is reasonable to suspect the victim having a gun played a part in potentially instigating the gun fire.

It is unreasonable to believe having a gun = complete safety in any and all situations, in fact the ONLY "fact" in this OP disproved your assertion and apparent belief somehow having a gun always makes a person safe.

[Danno 1,228]

Slim having a gun only increases the chances of gun play in a violent situation. The relevant "fact" in this OP is the armed victim was shot. No more, no less.

It is reasonable to suspect the victim having a gun played a part in potentially instigating the gun fire.

It is unreasonable to believe having a gun = complete safety in any and all situations, in fact the ONLY "fact" in this OP disproved your assertion and apparent belief somehow having a gun always makes a person safe.

Where did this come from?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Where did this come from?

Slims long history of posts which clearly indicate his belief guns make people safer, including but not limited to his post just prior to my last. That's where my summary of Slims point of view comes from.

Both personal situations involved having guns pointed at me which would have precluded any ability for me to have drawn a gun had I been armed anyway, so despite the Clint Eastwood wet dreams espoused on here, personal firearms are not likely to be helpful when you most need them in my personal opinion. I draw on personal experience to form my point of view.

I have had guns pointed at me in anger twice. I have never been shot, nor shot at, however both events seriously sucked as I am sure you can understand. Neither event was one in which I wished I was armed to, nor would having a gun been helpful in either situation.

I am not a fan of guns though I have shot a few, a .45 pistol being the most exciting.

Edited September 10, 2011 by ready4ONE

[slim 1,530]

The relevant "fact" in this OP is the armed victim was shot. No more, no less.

It is reasonable to suspect the victim having a gun played a part in potentially instigating the gun fire.

If you read the story (again) you'll see the part about the victim pulling his gun AFTER the robber started firing at him.

Did the robber somehow know he had a gun? Could he perhaps have been upset this armed American was resisting his "request" for money and decided to shoot him anyway? By the story, the robber had already chosen to shoot this victim before the victim displayed a weapon.

Want to keep going?

Next you'll be telling me it was because the victim resisted instead of turning b!tch and just handing the robber some money like he was supposed to.

It is unreasonable to believe having a gun = complete safety in any and all situations, in fact the ONLY "fact" in this OP disproved your assertion and apparent belief somehow having a gun always makes a person safe.

I've never posted that. I'm sorry you believe I've implied that because I don't believe that at all.

I have had guns pointed at me in anger twice. I have never been shot, nor shot at, however both events seriously sucked as I am sure you can understand. Neither event was one in which I wished I was armed to, nor would having a gun been helpful in either situation.

Please post these stories. I'd love to hear them.

I'd also like to point out the fact that the OP had a gun fired at him when he resisted. It appears you have a victim mentality whereas the OP chose to resist - even in the face of an armed attacker. So, you're probably right. Having a gun probably wouldn't have made your situation(s) any better. It only could've made them worse.

As a good bumper sticker says - "My gun is a tool. I am the weapon."