Were Palestinians expelled or fled?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Like I said, you're being awfully touchy, or what I said would be so yesterday to you. You act like I was questioning your intelligence. I'll chalk it up to you're having a bad day coz you're not usually so obsessive.

I hope it gets better soon

Yes, it is.

Are we back to fact vs. opinion again?

That's so yesterday

[Pooky 3,791]

Like I said, you're being awfully touchy, or what I said would be so yesterday to you. You act like I was questioning your intelligence. I'll chalk it up to you're having a bad day coz you're not usually so obsessive.

I hope it gets better soon

I wasn't being touchy. I was pointing out that you were being condescending.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I wasn't being touchy. I was pointing out that you were being condescending.

I wasn't being condescending, I was just pointing out bias on Wikipedia. You made it an issue. Enjoy your evening, bro. This is getting old for me.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Sometimes it's hard to be humble

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Sometimes it's hard to be humble

when you're from texas.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sometimes it's not necessary.

Sometimes it's hard to be humble

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Two words: The Holocaust.

The Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust. Why should they be the ones who get punished for it ?

[luckytxn 2,264]

when you're from texas.

We try to be humble.

Sometimes we succeed.

[Dan and Judy 614]

We try to be humble.

Sometimes we succeed.

I believe it was Ben Franklin that said he had good success in appearing to be humble

but in actually being humble he was not so successful.

I can most humbly empathize.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So both happened according to you. Expulsion and fleeing.

Not just according to me. Most scholars are in agreement on this.

Was the expulsion solely due to the Jews or from what I read also done by Arabs to "clear the way"? Of course I and anyone can understand leaving ones home and land and fleeing to avoid dying in a battle. I also read both that the Israelis asked the people to stay and/or come back and also that the Arabs didn't say to leave to "clear the way" but asked them to stay.

There does not seem to be any real evidence of Arab countries asking Palestinians to leave, although the claim has been repeated extensively. Israeli historian Benny Morris says it might have happened in a very few cases, but that the overwhelming causes were forced expulsion and fears of being caught up in the fighting.

In fact, studies of British and American records of radio broadcasts during 1948 found nothing to support the claim of Arab countries telling Palestinians to flee - instead, they cite repeated broadcasts from Arab countries telling Palestinians to remain in their lands. There is also a document from the Higher Arab Committee asking Arab countries to assist in preventing Palestinians from fleeing.

Interestingly enough, Erskine Childers' study reports that Zionist radio stations, broadcasting in Arabic, *did* urge Palestinians to leave.

Frankly, the Zionists wanted a Jewish-majority state. But there were problems. Palestine was already home to a bunch of Palestinians, and there were close to a million of them living in the territory that the U.N. Partition plan designated for the Jewish state:

The second problem for the Zionists - Palestinians already owned most of the land:

The Zionists had long discussed the idea of "transferring" the Palestinians out of Palestine by various means, including force. And when the war was over, the Israeli government really had no intention of allowing Palestinians to return (certainly not after going to all that trouble of driving them out.)

As I've already mentioned in another post, just 11 weeks after announcing the creation of the State of Israel and urging Palestinians to take their places in the new state, Israel officially informed the U.N. that it would in fact *not* allow the Palestinians to return, and stated this was because of "economic" reasons. The State of Israel had already seized their homes and property, and quickly passed a bunch of laws declaring that the Palestinian refugees no longer had any rights to their property. Many of the "internally-displaced" Palestinians (those who fled their homes but were still inside Israel) were also refused the right to return to their actual property.

It seems that you are saying that the sole Palestinian problem is that they were denied the right of return. Is this true?

This is a huge part of the problem. But so is the continuing occupation and settlement enterprise. The status of Jerusalem is another big issue.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Not just according to me. Most scholars are in agreement on this.

There does not seem to be any real evidence of Arab countries asking Palestinians to leave, although the claim has been repeated extensively. Israeli historian Benny Morris says it might have happened in a very few cases, but that the overwhelming causes were forced expulsion and fears of being caught up in the fighting.

In fact, studies of British and American records of radio broadcasts during 1948 found nothing to support the claim of Arab countries telling Palestinians to flee - instead, they cite repeated broadcasts from Arab countries telling Palestinians to remain in their lands. There is also a document from the Higher Arab Committee asking Arab countries to assist in preventing Palestinians from fleeing.

Interestingly enough, Erskine Childers' study reports that Zionist radio stations, broadcasting in Arabic, *did* urge Palestinians to leave.

Frankly, the Zionists wanted a Jewish-majority state. But there were problems. Palestine was already home to a bunch of Palestinians, and there were close to a million of them living in the territory that the U.N. Partition plan designated for the Jewish state:

The second problem for the Zionists - Palestinians already owned most of the land:

The Zionists had long discussed the idea of "transferring" the Palestinians out of Palestine by various means, including force. And when the war was over, the Israeli government really had no intention of allowing Palestinians to return (certainly not after going to all that trouble of driving them out.)

As I've already mentioned in another post, just 11 weeks after announcing the creation of the State of Israel and urging Palestinians to take their places in the new state, Israel officially informed the U.N. that it would in fact *not* allow the Palestinians to return, and stated this was because of "economic" reasons. The State of Israel had already seized their homes and property, and quickly passed a bunch of laws declaring that the Palestinian refugees no longer had any rights to their property. Many of the "internally-displaced" Palestinians (those who fled their homes but were still inside Israel) were also refused the right to return to their actual property.

This is a huge part of the problem. But so is the continuing occupation and settlement enterprise. The status of Jerusalem is another big issue.

I appreciate your taking the time to help me understand. I would like some links or places to see this myself and read. I have looked and read but it always seems biased. I have read about the laws denying them to return to their property though but would like to see where they had a design beforehand to get them out either by force or other means. If it was all by design so there would be a majority of Jews in Israel then I can see more clearly the problem. If they decided to just deny them the return after a brutal war and thought that they were allowing an enemy to come into their mist as I have also read then still a problem. Many Muslims did stay and are citizens of Israel and even in their political system.

What I am trying to find out is what a solution could be. Is it the right of return and retrieve their old land and homes enough? Foregoing that will monetary compensation be enough? Is it that Israel have to cease to exist and all Jews leave? I am not trying to have a argument here as I am clueless pretty much on the topic even though I have read a lot and of both sides.

If you could point to more that I can read that would help enlighten me is good. God bless and thanks for replying.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

If the author is Jewish, then their opinion doesn't count. Only Muslim voices count. New VJ rule.

Don't be silly. I have quoted more Jewish sources to support my debate than anyone else on this board. I have also been known to quote some Christians. Sofiyya has quoted quite a few as well.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Don't be silly. I have quoted more Jewish sources to support my debate than anyone else on this board. I have also been known to quote some Christians. Sofiyya has quoted quite a few as well.

Yes you have. It is also why I ask your opinion.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Was it just the Israelis that refused to allow the "right of return"? Did the Arabs refuse the Palestinians to return at all?

?

[luckytxn 2,264]

I would like to say one more thing. I did read that many were asked to leave and told they would be allowed to return after Israel is destroyed by Arab forces. (Not sure if Arab is the right word as they were not Saudi). I have never found any proof that this has happened except heresy. I also read once that Israel had did as you said and used radio in the Palestinian language to urge them to leave. Is there somewhere of proof they did this?