My worst fear just came true

[ozamerican 2]

This post might be a little scattered. I still don't know what to think.... I guess I am writing this hoping that it gives some relief or suggestions to what I am going through right now.

My fiance is Australian. He committed a crime of moral turpitude. He robbed a store when he was 16 years old.

He is now 29 years old (13 years later) and just finished his PhD and has never committed a crime since. He got in with a bad crowd and did something completely out of his norm. He is honestly the nicest person I have ever met. I still don't even feel like it's true. It isn't even on his record anymore they cleared it after 10 years. And he never served time.

We've been together nearly 4 years now. We met in australia and instantly fell in love and became best friends. and I actually lived in Australia and worked over there. We moved in together a year after dating. honestly I've never met anyone like him before. He's the love of my life and means the world to me. I love him more and more as the years go on.

I moved back to the states two weeks ago thinking he would go for his interview and all would be fine. I guess I was falsely told that it would all be okay. I talked with a immigration lawyer who said that since it had been so long and he was a juvenile and he had only committed one crime he should be fine. and the fact that he had come over to the states four times before on a visitors visa. The immigration guy at the interview today told him that he should have never been granted that visa in the first place. and he should have never been able to come to the states.

So, at this point he is not aloud to visit here and he may never be aloud to come in america. that's such a scary thought. Im such a mess.

If you asked anyone that knows us they would tell you how in love we are and it's so rare. he's such a good person and I wish they could see that. I wish that he didn't have a record but, I guess we can't do anything about that now.

My big dilemma is I am about to start graduate school in two weeks. I got into the top program for my specialty in America. I was so excited. But, now I wonder if I should give it up. I don't know what to do. I feel so hopeless

has anyone been in this situation before.

I am going to hire a immigration lawyer tomorrow when things open (it's 5am here now). I've barely slept. I just wake up balling my eyes out.

I thought today was going to be one of the best days of my life and it ended up being the worst...

I do already know that we can apply for a waiver. which we are going to do ASAP.

Edited September 6, 2011 by ozamerican

[gc955 2]

I really hope something works out for the both of you. Sorry to read this.

[Pamala Bull 4]

that post made me so sad i couldnt amagine been banned from a country were someone i loved lived. I think the best advice i can tell you is if you really think he is the one .. you can go to school here our schools are just as good , get a working visa here and u can go to school and live with him . Get married here together and you guys will have a happy life.. Really it would be easier for you to come over here now that its not ment to be for him to go there.. it would be too complicated and another long process.

wish you all the best! cheers

[ozamerican 2]

Thank you everyone for the advice and support. At this time I am submitting a appeal and hiring the best immigration lawyer i can find. I am going to start graduate school here hoping that he will follow pretty soon. If he doesn't than I'll have two lonely years but, then we can move somewhere else or I could go back to living in Australia. I know it will be a good move getting my masters. I know it will be hard for us to be apart for so long. But, I guess sometimes we have to make sacrifices.

And my dad actually got worse than it already was. I was feeling really crappy this week and found out that I have lyme's disease- does that count as extreme hardship suffered by me? ha.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

This post might be a little scattered. I still don't know what to think.... I guess I am writing this hoping that it gives some relief or suggestions to what I am going through right now.

My fiance is Australian. He committed a crime of moral turpitude. He robbed a store when he was 16 years old.

He is now 29 years old (13 years later) and just finished his PhD and has never committed a crime since. He got in with a bad crowd and did something completely out of his norm. He is honestly the nicest person I have ever met. I still don't even feel like it's true. It isn't even on his record anymore they cleared it after 10 years. And he never served time.

We've been together nearly 4 years now. We met in australia and instantly fell in love and became best friends. and I actually lived in Australia and worked over there. We moved in together a year after dating. honestly I've never met anyone like him before. He's the love of my life and means the world to me. I love him more and more as the years go on.

I moved back to the states two weeks ago thinking he would go for his interview and all would be fine. I guess I was falsely told that it would all be okay. I talked with a immigration lawyer who said that since it had been so long and he was a juvenile and he had only committed one crime he should be fine. and the fact that he had come over to the states four times before on a visitors visa. The immigration guy at the interview today told him that he should have never been granted that visa in the first place. and he should have never been able to come to the states.

So, at this point he is not aloud to visit here and he may never be aloud to come in america. that's such a scary thought. Im such a mess.

If you asked anyone that knows us they would tell you how in love we are and it's so rare. he's such a good person and I wish they could see that. I wish that he didn't have a record but, I guess we can't do anything about that now.

My big dilemma is I am about to start graduate school in two weeks. I got into the top program for my specialty in America. I was so excited. But, now I wonder if I should give it up. I don't know what to do. I feel so hopeless

has anyone been in this situation before.

I am going to hire a immigration lawyer tomorrow when things open (it's 5am here now). I've barely slept. I just wake up balling my eyes out.

I thought today was going to be one of the best days of my life and it ended up being the worst...

I do already know that we can apply for a waiver. which we are going to do ASAP.

It will be okay. He can file an I-601 waiver (here: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-601instr.pdf ). Page 4 talks about the crimes of moral turpitude. Unfortunately he doesn't qualify for the 15 years, so you will have to try and prove extreme hardship. He would have to prove YOU (not him) would suffer extreme hardship. I would think that your schooling would help but I'm not sure its enough.

Try reading this forum here that explains waivers. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/113-waivers-i-601-and-i-212-and-administrative-processes-221g/ From reading I know that the waiver is applied for AFTER you have been denied at interview so it's okay, you're still on track but you should probably use a lawyer for this part. It will be okay. You can still visit him and it's not like Australia is a bad place to visit

I know you're sad right now but it's not like he's completely banned without a waiver (like claiming to be a USC when you're not is a lifetime ban with NO waiver) and at least you know that you can move to Aus without issue, some people don't have that luxury.

[Rod n Christy 0]

How did they know he committed this crime when he was 16 if its not on his record? Did they give him an out right denial?

[SDuke 3]

Im so sorry to have read that. Im not sure if this helps, but I know of a USC who married an Australian - He (australian) stole a care when he was 15, same story - he got involved with the wrong crowd etc. He is now 24 and he was allowed to stay in the US. With that being said, he was already over here on a student visa, they married and applied for an adjustment of status. I know they hired some whizz bang of an immigration lawyer and it cost them thousands but he was allowed to stay. I always thought that was odd though, because my understanding was that if you did ever commit a serious crime, you were pretty much ineligible for any US visa, student, immigration or otherwise. There has got to be a way around it. Hope everything works out for you, I really do!

[ozamerican 2]

How did they know he committed this crime when he was 16 if its not on his record? Did they give him an out right denial?

They ask on the forms to submitt if they have ever committed a crime. which he has. and even though we submitted a blank police record they said no. because he still does have a criminal history. just not on the record anymore. and yes, they gave him a outright denial. sad day :-(. we are hiring the best lawyer we can find. my parents do some work with some congressman and hoping we can get some letters of support to help us out. Just praying he can come over here so we can be together. it's a lengthy process. ah!

[ozamerican 2]

It will be okay. He can file an I-601 waiver (here: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-601instr.pdf ). Page 4 talks about the crimes of moral turpitude. Unfortunately he doesn't qualify for the 15 years, so you will have to try and prove extreme hardship. He would have to prove YOU (not him) would suffer extreme hardship. I would think that your schooling would help but I'm not sure its enough.

Try reading this forum here that explains waivers. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/113-waivers-i-601-and-i-212-and-administrative-processes-221g/ From reading I know that the waiver is applied for AFTER you have been denied at interview so it's okay, you're still on track but you should probably use a lawyer for this part. It will be okay. You can still visit him and it's not like Australia is a bad place to visit

I know you're sad right now but it's not like he's completely banned without a waiver (like claiming to be a USC when you're not is a lifetime ban with NO waiver) and at least you know that you can move to Aus without issue, some people don't have that luxury.

Do you or anyone else know if he was a juvenile if the case is treated differently? I found this online and am not sure if it's legit or anyone has gone through the same thing. But, check out this website

quote from website:http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article7.htm

Criminal and Related Grounds:

Excludable on criminal and related grounds are the following:

Aliens convicted of, and those who admit having committed either

A crime involving moral turpitude (or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or

A violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation relating to a controlled substance.

For information on the meaning of “moral turpitude” please see our website article A Crime Involving Moral Turpitude! What in the World is That?

Exceptions: an alien will not be ineligible for a visa if the alien committed only one crime involving moral turpitude and if

the crime was committed when the alien was under the age of 18 and the crime was committed (and the alien was released from any confinement imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or admission to the U.S., or

the maximum penalty possible for the crime did not exceed imprisonment for 1 year, and if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months.

Aliens convicted of two or more offences who are sentenced to confinement of 5 years or more;

Controlled substance traffickers;

Prostitutes and procurers of prostitutes, and aliens coming to engage in any other unlawful commercialised vice;

Aliens engaged in trafficking in persons; and

Aliens engaged in money laundering.

I mean doesn't he fall in that category?

[gwenneh 7]

It sounds like the problem wasn't the CoMT, it was the fact that he had a prior visa which, if his crime had been declared properly, he should not have been awarded. It sounds very much like they think he obtained that visa by deception.

I don't know if that means he is eligible for a waiver or not, but I do know that it's fairly serious and shouldn't be glossed over.

[caly 48]

So sorry to hear about this.

I have no knowledge about waivers and such.. but I've read many posts on VJ that recommend the http://immigrate2us.net website when dealing with the possibility of having to file waivers and other such sticky situations. I believe it's the best place to get information about your options. Hopefully you will be able to get some helpful information there.

Best of luck!

[ozamerican 2]

It sounds like the problem wasn't the CoMT, it was the fact that he had a prior visa which, if his crime had been declared properly, he should not have been awarded. It sounds very much like they think he obtained that visa by deception.

I don't know if that means he is eligible for a waiver or not, but I do know that it's fairly serious and shouldn't be glossed over.

He wasn't granted the visa by deception for the b1-b2 visa. We submitted all the court records- and he even had a interview where they asked him about the crime. and he was approved that day. but, i guess he should have never been approved. but, it WAS not out of deception from us.

[gwenneh 7]

He wasn't granted the visa by deception for the b1-b2 visa. We submitted all the court records- and he even had a interview where they asked him about the crime. and he was approved that day. but, i guess he should have never been approved. but, it WAS not out of deception from us.

I'm sure everything he did for his visitor visa was precisely as it should have been, just from the comments it sounds like the officer didn't believe it. Which, I agree, is unfair.

I did have a brief Google-fest and even if they said he obtained the visa by deception, that's still waiver-eligible. I guess the big thing to address is whether or not that was part of the reason for the denial. If I were in your position, it would be something I'd include in the waiver -- any information you have about that rightfully-obtained visitor visa can only help.

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N1.2 Exceptions to Ineligibility" says they "may" make an exception for persons who were under 18 at the time of the crime, but basically leaves the final decision whether or not to do so in the adjudicator's hands.

You don't go into a lot of detail about the charges and his conviction, but the under-18 exception can only be exercised if the maximum possible sentence for the crime was less than one year imprisonment *and* he wasn't sentenced to any more than six months in prison. So, basically, if he could have served more than a year for his crime, he wasn't eligible for the exception (under 9 FAM 40.21(a) N8 SINGLE CRIME INVOLVING MORAL TURPITUDE WHILE UNDER AGE 18 INA 212(a)(2)(A)(ii)(I))

Which, again, is something that should have come to light in the process for the visitor's visa -- if he slipped through the system, even if it is the U.S.'s fault, and was ineligible for the visa, that could be what caused a problem.

I am so, so sorry you are in this mess and I hope the waiver gets sorted quickly, quietly and without fuss.

[ozamerican 2]

I'm sure everything he did for his visitor visa was precisely as it should have been, just from the comments it sounds like the officer didn't believe it. Which, I agree, is unfair.

I did have a brief Google-fest and even if they said he obtained the visa by deception, that's still waiver-eligible. I guess the big thing to address is whether or not that was part of the reason for the denial. If I were in your position, it would be something I'd include in the waiver -- any information you have about that rightfully-obtained visitor visa can only help.

"9 FAM 40.21(a) N1.2 Exceptions to Ineligibility" says they "may" make an exception for persons who were under 18 at the time of the crime, but basically leaves the final decision whether or not to do so in the adjudicator's hands.

You don't go into a lot of detail about the charges and his conviction, but the under-18 exception can only be exercised if the maximum possible sentence for the crime was less than one year imprisonment *and* he wasn't sentenced to any more than six months in prison. So, basically, if he could have served more than a year for his crime, he wasn't eligible for the exception (under 9 FAM 40.21(a) N8 SINGLE CRIME INVOLVING MORAL TURPITUDE WHILE UNDER AGE 18 INA 212(a)(2)(A)(ii)(I))

Which, again, is something that should have come to light in the process for the visitor's visa -- if he slipped through the system, even if it is the U.S.'s fault, and was ineligible for the visa, that could be what caused a problem.

I am so, so sorry you are in this mess and I hope the waiver gets sorted quickly, quietly and without fuss.

9 FAM 40.21(a) N8 SINGLE CRIME INVOLVING MORAL TURPITUDE WHILE UNDER AGE 18 INA 212(a)(2)(A)(ii)(I)

(CT:VISA-1318; 09-24-2009)

a. The exception found in INA 212(a)(2)(A)(ii)(I) for an alien who has committed a single crime involving moral turpitude while under the age of 18 allows the issuance of a visa to the alien although the alien was convicted while over the age of 18 if the:

(1) Crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than five years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

(2) Maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or for which the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for

U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 9 - Visas

9 FAM 40.21(a) Notes Page 23 of 28

one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of six months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed). (See 9 FAM 40.21(a) N7.1 above.)

This one says- OR. not AND. But, who knows..

Anyways...It doesn't matter. he was tried as an adult and that is what I found out made us rejected. If he was tried as a juvenile then it wouldn't matter and he would have been granted a visa (or so I think- ha). Scary how the past haunts you. But, I was maybe thinking the lawyer could help us with a case for that?

And I know we have to prove extreme hardship will be suffered by me. the list goes on about extreme hardship. This is the hardest thing I've ever been through. But, I guess at the end of the day you just look forward and hope that you'll end up together- somehow, somewhere.

We are getting together everything right now. I have a friend who is a congressman who is helping us organise everything. and we're paying lots for a top lawyer. i know it might seem like a waste to some people. but, i want to do everything possible to have him over here as soon as possible. it's just so hard being apart.

Actually we were pretty luck timeframe wise from filling our forms to interview time. I have a feeling this waiver process might take longer than our whole other process. crazy, isn't?

thank you everyone for your comments.

and he was declined under section 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) . I just had a read through the letter from the interview. so sad :-(.

[gwenneh 7]

Anyways...It doesn't matter. he was tried as an adult and that is what I found out made us rejected. If he was tried as a juvenile then it wouldn't matter and he would have been granted a visa (or so I think- ha). Scary how the past haunts you. But, I was maybe thinking the lawyer could help us with a case for that?

And I know we have to prove extreme hardship will be suffered by me. the list goes on about extreme hardship. This is the hardest thing I've ever been through. But, I guess at the end of the day you just look forward and hope that you'll end up together- somehow, somewhere.

We are getting together everything right now. I have a friend who is a congressman who is helping us organise everything. and we're paying lots for a top lawyer. i know it might seem like a waste to some people. but, i want to do everything possible to have him over here as soon as possible. it's just so hard being apart.

Actually we were pretty luck timeframe wise from filling our forms to interview time. I have a feeling this waiver process might take longer than our whole other process. crazy, isn't?

thank you everyone for your comments.

and he was declined under section 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) . I just had a read through the letter from the interview. so sad :-(.

Oh, ouch. I am so, so sorry to hear that. It sounds like you're doing everything that you can; fingers crossed this is a straightforward waiver and you're back together soon.