Atheism v Anti-Theism

[Captain Oates 911]

I am a pretty content atheist (not saying I am pretty), and I have great security in the knowledge that there is no hell and I can therefore die with a smile on my face and with no uncertainly

I have always thought that I should leave it at that - especially in the face of the belligerency of theists when they are challenged. I have suffered nothing in comparisonon to non-believers in the past who were routinely burned alive and had their limbs broken with hammers by the followers of Jesus

However, when one considers the abuses of the religious, from child rape by priests (No child's bottom left) to the fleecing of the unsophisticated by Churches like Crespo Dollar's, I have leaned towards thinking that I should be actively anti-theist to try get rid of this curse on humanity

After having that thought, I then looked at the reality of society and contemplated the difference between the average 65 year old 300 lb manual worker who never finished college,and who has never been exposed to non-religious ideas, and these plausible PHD's and scholars of Greek Philosophy and history, who set out the case for anti-theism.

I came to a rather depressing thought - what would these 'ordinary' people replace their religion with ? They would be lost and unhappy and confused. They don't have the education or the basic intelligence to think things through to the point where they can relax, secure in a set of ideas they themselves have concluded.

So perhaps the nonreligious should not be opposed so much to religion itself, but rather to the source of the circumcisions, amputations, money fleecing, abortion banning and polical interference and war etc etc etc. The source is of course the churches and the guidance they give to their flock (baaaaaa)

If the churches could be persuaded to oppose wars and not to collude with politicians for the churches' advantage, and to stand up against practises such as burning widows in India, female circumcision, cutting off hands, banning abortion, then a kinder and more human church reflecting that, would not be so bad.

So at the moment I am thinking that anti-theism is not as imperative as anti-churchism insofar as the churches are the fount of much war and cruelty and fleecing of their flocks and it is they who should be opposed and persuaded/forced to change their doctrine. A society full of harmless sheep would not be so bad and as the cruelties the churches peddle and this could be achieved if the churches could be made/persuaded to pull their horns in.

The founding fathers realized this and thus the protections of 'any religion or non' and the separation of religion and state. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and we have not been vigilant enough in repelling the berobed oppressors and peddlers of cruelty and domination

Getting rid of god would not solve the problem because the priests would simply morph in to Stalin or Kim Jong Il.

We need to get rid of this thinking which seeks to order our beliefs and thoughts and lives - in whichever form it comes to take us over.

WE as ordinary citziens should tell the churches to get off our lawns

Edited September 4, 2011 by Alan the Red

[BishopM 114]

Are you sure you're not LI's Dad

Blessings

P.S. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn

[Danno 1,228]

As I have said in the past..... it seems the NON-religous are often times more obsessed about religion than the, religious-kooks.

[웃 910]

Are you sure you're not LI's Dad

One of the problems with detoxing from religion is you feel guilty for a while. You think in the back of your mind that "if God is there"..."I am betraying Him"...."I'm going to hell"...

Finally after a few months of careful thought (or years) you begin to realize that it is all fairy tales and the guilt and fear goes away.

The main reason people are religious is because they are petrified of going to hell.

How scary a place to go and spend eternity.

And what a way to control people to believe a certain way.

- 'Guess what? If you don't believe XYZ then from 60 to 70 years old we'll take you to a concentration camp and torture you. If you live to 70 that is the day you are executed by fire'

So guess what. Everyone is gonna believe XYZ.

Sad that they had to make up the hell/heaven part to ensure that the sheep would fall for the hypnosis.

After you die you are reborn in another dimension. You live there for eternity. Why do people believe this and not in the tooth fairy?

[BishopM 114]

I believe in the toothfairy/santy clause/easterbunny....the workz! I also ate a TON of spinach when I was a kid because Popeye RULZ!!!

Thinking back though, even when you were a kiddo and you heard of the toothfairy/santyclause/easterbunny, you knew instantly that these are fairy tales. However, when we were kids and we heard of God, we knew this was not a fairy tale.

Its only later in life(usually), when we become engrossed in the the world that we lose our belief. Why is that? Lord Infamous, I would say it is for the same reason that you state we believe in 'XYZ'...it is because people tell us 'not to believe' for year after year after year. People say, 'lie/cheat/steal/etc/, because there is no God so there is no consequence.

Are we back to the teeter-totter type of argument?

Blessings to you Brother LI

[mawilson 2,133]

Thinking back though, even when you were a kiddo and you heard of the toothfairy/santyclause/easterbunny, you knew instantly that these are fairy tales. However, when we were kids and we heard of God, we knew this was not a fairy tale.

Not true - I knew that both were fairy tales.

[BishopM 114]

Not true - I knew that both were fairy tales.

...I definitely questioned it. However, for some reason unknown to me, I intuitively knew it wasn't a fairy tale...no matter how hard I tried to convince myself that it was!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'll never be an atheist coz I've met heavenly angels, and they're really nice.

[Danno 1,228]

I'll never be an atheist coz I've met heavenly angels, and they're really nice.

Are you speaking of our VJ acquaintance?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Are you speaking of our VJ acquaintance?

No I mean real angels; guardian angels. They literally came over me at a particularly traumatic time and comforted me. They felt light and warm, and their voices were soft, kind and reassuring. It was like the most natural, yet most unique experience I've ever had. I wasn't so surprised that they were there, because they had visited me before, but they had never spoken to me nor had they ever embraced me before. I became a totally different person after that.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Not being religious doesn't make a person a liar, a cheat or a thief.

[Danno 1,228]

Not being religious doesn't make a person a liar, a cheat or a thief.

Your absolutely right but: if an Atheist is a lying, thieving cheat....within his own self

he can decide whether it's even right or wrong........ mighty convenient if you ask me.

I't almost like in some small why you become your own God, deciding in absolute, what is right or wrong.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Danno your logic is as always quite challenged. Being a Christian doesn't make a person not a liar, a cheat or a theif either. Not being a theist means precisely that, nothing more, nothing less.

[Danno 1,228]

Danno your logic is as always quite challenged. Being a Christian doesn't make a person not a liar, a cheat or a theif either. Not being a theist means precisely that, nothing more, nothing less.

Lets reread what I wrote and see if you can respond to "it" this time.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Lets reread what I wrote and see if you can respond to "it" this time.

My response was in part a response to bishops comment earlier in the thread, but if you must have a direct response to your unsubstantiated and dubious claim Atheism makes being a liar, a cheat or a thief easier here goes. From my perspective you were continuing bishops thoughts.

There is NO correlation between belief or disbelief in a divine being and honesty or morality. Your theory is built on bias and is just as provable as the existence of God him/herself.