need to make impotant decision.. need help

[D N Medellin COL 75]

hi everybody:) I wonder what you guys think about marriage contracts.. is it something you would go for or not? I'll explain.. I got my K-1 visa and I came to the states about a month ago. My fiance never told me about his desire to sign a marriage contract before (he knows that i dont like this idea because I believe people do it when they dont trust each other completely). He works in his father's company... we live in his parents house now... so pretty much he doesnt have many things of his own.. but he told me today that he wants to hire a lawyer to sign a marriage contract.. he didnt tell me much about it... only that this contract will somehow give him more chances to inherit his father's company in the future... and in case of divorce we will not have to deal with 50;50 sharing of things... what's mine will be mine and what's his will be his, he said "it will be like we are just boyfriend and girlfriend.. dont worry about it... it doesnt really mean anything"... besides that they have kinda strange relationships in their family.. they go on a vacation without telling anybody about it *(like is sister just left to a different state without telling anybody).. his mum says that all of her kids (including my fiance) act like that.. so yeah.. he wants us to get married without telling the date to his parents.. he wants us to tell them that we got married after we get married.. i feel very confused.. I dont really understand their relationships in the family but the thing about not telling the date to the parents and especially this stupid contract bother me a lot... he swears he loves me and trusts me, and that this contract is mostly for his dad.. but i feel that something is wrong.. I dont know what to do.. sometimes I really want to take my things and go home but at the same time i love this person.. all this situation makes me feel bad... has anybody ever had anything like that? what are your thoughts about all this? I would be happy to hear your ideas and comments..

I will make this simple as possible - him waiting for about a year then once you are here in the States on a K-1 (got 90 days to marry so your under the time pressure), then he springs this on you at this TIME!!!! Do yourself a favor and return to your home country. Chances are very good you will be miserable with him and HIS family!

And this advice is coming from an American man so I have no dog in this fight. Please open your eyes and get out while you can.

[Brit Abroad 166]

Much depends on the kind of relationship you have with your fiance. You can think you know everything about this person you've been communicating with for months/years and yet when you come to living with them, you realise that there can be more to learn about who they are.

Some families have a lot of sway over their children, others don't. Some people are very cautious with how much access they allow a new partner/spouse to their money and investments, how much they open up to you on an emotional level and how much involvement they want to have with their family as a couple.

Signing a pre-nup isn't a bad thing, provided you understand everything that you are signing away and how much those things mean to your fiance and how much they will affect your marriage. Nobody goes into a marriage wanting a divorce, but when it does happen you need to know what you might do AFTER it and have a plan. If they are asking you to sign away any rights to income or capital from the family business but you are living in the family home, there should also be provision made to cover the cost of helping you move into a place of your own, or to return to your home country in the event you and your fiance part company before you reach 3 years of marriage or citizenship.

Frankly, in your position, I would be absolutely furious that there had been no mention of this upfront. This is incredibly dishonest, and shows a complete lack of respect for your relationship as well as his inability to behave like an adult and discuss issues openly with you. His parents must've known that he was intending to marry for the issue of a pre-nup to have even come up, so why the big secrecy over the wedding date and plans? Seriously? How are you going to prove a bona fide relationship for your Adjustment of Status if his parents and family are unaware of even the wedding date? How much evidence of living together is going to be available if Mommy and Daddy are paying his living expenses, nothing is in his own name and he has a document that says he's not going to share anything with you?

You need to sit him down and work out exactly what his relationship with you really is, and where the line between his relationship with you and his relationship with his parents actually is. At what stage is he planning on setting up his own household, or he is going to wait for his "inheritance" before he learns to fly solo? I'd be looking to sit down with him and his family and discuss this openly, putting all the what-ifs on the table so every possible outcome is known and catered to in any pre-nup. If you're happy with that, get a damned good lawyer and make sure you have SOME rights in this relationship.

I'd be seriously concerned at my role within this family and attaching myself legally to a man who seems to lack the ability to be an independent adult, but only you can judge the merits of the relationship and know if you want to proceed. If you have doubts, go home. There's nothing to stop you continuing the relationship if you return home, and you can always apply for another visa later on if the relationship truly is what you both want.

[Paul and Haidee 11]

I think that he should have told you all of this before he brought you over here. To keep it from the person he loves until you are here and stuck is very deceitful and wrong. I am still working on bringing my fiancee over here and I told her straight up that things will not be easy while I am finishing up my degree. I told her that I was having problems with my tenants, trouble with the house, and money is very tight while I am still in school. But ya know what? Even though its put a strain on our relationship sometimes, she has stuck with me because she loves me. If he truly knows that you love him with all your heart, then he would have told you before you came over here. I understand that he would want to protect the business in the unfortunate event that you get divorced, but he should have been open and honest before you came here. What is he going to do if you don't sign it? Not marry you? If that's the case then he is not the right guy for you. If that happens, although you love him, he does not love you. Thats just my opinion. Good luck and I hope everything works out for the best.

Oh and yes, we Americans are weird. Sometimes I wish I lived in a country that had better morals and stronger family bonds...

[bigdog 376]

have an attorney review any contract, listen to your gut. I decided not to but love my wife more than a contract.

[Alianza Terps 12]

Remember, a pre-nup only goes into effect in the event of the divorce. While no one plans for a divorce, no one knows what the future holds. I think there are several perspectives you can take on the issue. Some people believe that a pre-nup is a sign of distrust or disrespect. Other people just see it as protecting each others future and assets. Perhaps your fiance believes that this pre-nup is to appease his father and nothing more. Signing a pre-nup is a personal choice and you can decide how you want to interpret your fiance's request.

My advice is to talk with your fiance, express yourself, read over the terms of the pre-nup closely and then make your decision.

About his family and your marriage - perhaps you two should decide on how, when, where and under what circumstances you want to commit to your future together. If you would like his family there, then express it.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Alianza Terps

[Enigma11561 336]

I dont have a good feeling about this. I dont know your ages but still living in his parents house, under their rules, does not bode well, in my opinion. How long would this continue?

This father has a business. Maybe he started it from scratch.When he passes it most likely will go to his wife. When she passes it may be divided among along their children, including your future husband. Seems like a long time off. The fathers concern ( and I hope it is ONLY the fathers concern) is that if you divorce before all this happens, you may make trouble in wanting part of this business.

Read between the lines here. My oldest daughter still thinks my "russian" wife only came here to get a green card even though we have been married for over 1.5 years and very happy together. A situation I am still working on. Perhaps his father has similiar concerns regarding this relationship?

I agree with others here that this should have been told to you before. It is not honest, it is deceitful and no way to begin a marriage. And to tell you that he wants to hide your marriage to him? How does he explain your living in this house? Did he tell his parents you are just a friend who came to visit? If they are aware you came on a K-1, the purpose of which is to marry, why the secrets? And if they were not aware, oh boy...can you think forward enough to see what may happen when you guys come home and say..guess what mom and dad..? You still have to live there.

I know coming here was not easy. Saying goodbye to family and friends. And if you return it can be even harder admitting you made a mistake.But to be in love with a man who cannot stand up to his parents,especially living in the same house and has not been truthful with you gives me great concern for your future. You would not be the first woman who came here, found for whatever reasons things were not going to work, and went home. Dont be afraid. But only you can make that decision.

You need a real honest sit down with this man. Take the gloves off. Get it all out in the air and if need be get the parents involved. This is your life. You need to absolutely know what is in front of you. Udachi.

[David79 7]

Personally, I think marriage contracts usually show the marriage isn't built on a solid foundation to begin with, though I acknowledge this isn't always a black and white issue and there are some gray areas. The bottom line though is it has to be your choice. Do NOT do it if you feel like you are being forced or coerced into it (especially due to the pressure of having limited time to get married before your visa expires).

He should have talked with you about this long before you ever arrived in the US. If he had done that and you had agreed then you are an adult and can do what you want. The fact he waited until you are actually in the US should raise a huge flag of caution. If this is just his own decision (and not his parents pressuring him) then it shows he does not fully trust you since he waited until you were here to bring it up and could use the limited time to force you into signing it. Another possibility is that it is indeed his parents pressuring him because they don't trust you and see you as a gold-digging foreigner. If that is the case, then he is allowing his parents to run his life. Do you want a wet-noodle husband who is not able to make his own decisions? A real man will always honor and listen to the advice of his parents, but will not let them continue to control every part of his life even after he is an adult. I have seen plenty of adults who continue to let their parents control their lives and it is not pretty. It often causes major conflict with the spouse and will usually cause marital issues (which is a recipe for eventual divorce).

The first thing you should do is sit down with your fiance and have a very serious and clear discussion with him about this. First, I would find out why this is happening. Was it really his decision or was it his parents forcing him? Also, how long has he/they been planning this? Second, find out if this is just about the family business or is really about everything. If it is just about the business, then the contract shoule ONLY be related to the business and not everything. Finally, do not be afraid to NOT marry the man and go back to the Ukraine if that is what is necessary. A BAD MARRIAGE CAN BE MUCH WORSE THAN NO MARRIAGE. Also, if he says something like "You either sign this or we will not get married" then you should leave immediately and go back to the Ukraine, happy to have dodged a bullet.

My final advice is that if you do CHOOSE to sign the marriage contract after your discussion with him then you should tell him at this point he has broken your trust and needs to do something to earn it back. Tell him you will sign the contract, but you want to wait until after the marriage. If he had told you before you got here then this would not be necessary, but at this point he has no right to expect you to sign it right away. Though laws may vary from state to state, you should still just as easily be able to sign a contract after marriage that "in the event of divorce I lay no claim to the business, its property, future profits, etc". You should also make HIM hire the lawyer of your choosing to look over the contract and let you know exactly what it says (and also ensure it can be done after marriage or if there could be any complications).

Of course, the bottom line is I don't know your exact situation as well as you do and I am no lawyer so take my legal advice with caution. What I DO know is that you shold not be forced into signing something and you do have the right to leave the US so don't feel trapped.

[Richard-Y-Abigail 18]

I know this is not the answer that you would expect, but maybe with a pre-nuptial contract, if the business goes under, you cannot be held liable for their debts. On the other hand, if you do not have a contract, and the business goes under, you will be held liable. I don't know if this is true, but it seems reasonable.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If the sole reason for a prenuptial is to keep the business within the family, that makes sense to me. You can work out most everything else to be divided evenly. Each state though has it's on laws regarding the division of property. For example, any debt or possessions he had prior to your marriage would be solely his in most states.

California for example:

California is considered a "Community Property" state. Community property is defined as all property and debt that was acquired from the date of marriage until the marital cut-off date. The community assets will be split equally by the Superior Court if the spouses are unable to reach an agreement.

When dividing property for a dissolution of marriage or legal separation of the parties, property acquired by the parties during marriage in joint form, including property held in tenancy in common, joint tenancy, or tenancy by the entirety, or as community property, is presumed to be community property.

[Samantha78 117]

hi everybody:) I wonder what you guys think about marriage contracts.. is it something you would go for or not? I'll explain.. I got my K-1 visa and I came to the states about a month ago. My fiance never told me about his desire to sign a marriage contract before (he knows that i dont like this idea because I believe people do it when they dont trust each other completely). He works in his father's company... we live in his parents house now... so pretty much he doesnt have many things of his own.. but he told me today that he wants to hire a lawyer to sign a marriage contract.. he didnt tell me much about it... only that this contract will somehow give him more chances to inherit his father's company in the future... and in case of divorce we will not have to deal with 50;50 sharing of things... what's mine will be mine and what's his will be his, he said "it will be like we are just boyfriend and girlfriend.. dont worry about it... it doesnt really mean anything"... besides that they have kinda strange relationships in their family.. they go on a vacation without telling anybody about it *(like is sister just left to a different state without telling anybody).. his mum says that all of her kids (including my fiance) act like that.. so yeah.. he wants us to get married without telling the date to his parents.. he wants us to tell them that we got married after we get married.. i feel very confused.. I dont really understand their relationships in the family but the thing about not telling the date to the parents and especially this stupid contract bother me a lot... he swears he loves me and trusts me, and that this contract is mostly for his dad.. but i feel that something is wrong.. I dont know what to do.. sometimes I really want to take my things and go home but at the same time i love this person.. all this situation makes me feel bad... has anybody ever had anything like that? what are your thoughts about all this? I would be happy to hear your ideas and comments..

I understand the whole pre nup thing and the specifics on it...or its intent. That's fine and dandy but....marriage should not start out like this. He's done very wrong by not discussing this beforehand with you. If divorce is already on his radar then mayyybeeee that's not a great thing ???

Im sorry but I'm going to be blunt ..........i think it's a bunch of bullshit for him to want this and not have said something from the beginning. You are absolutely entitled to feel jaded and confused. This is very wrong and he needed to think and discuss this in depth BEFORE you came to the states. The whole hiding the marriage thing.....urrrggggg.....omg.......If I were you I would have sent him to hell already. That's the worst thing about living with parents of your partner, or even your own......you have to walk on eggshells to make them happy.

I wouldn't sign the contract and....I would think very hard and long about a successful future with him. There's just so much wrong with how he's acting and what he's planning.

Edited September 5, 2011 by sam&jensi

[Samantha78 117]

Personally, I think marriage contracts usually show the marriage isn't built on a solid foundation to begin with, though I acknowledge this isn't always a black and white issue and there are some gray areas. The bottom line though is it has to be your choice. Do NOT do it if you feel like you are being forced or coerced into it (especially due to the pressure of having limited time to get married before your visa expires).

He should have talked with you about this long before you ever arrived in the US. If he had done that and you had agreed then you are an adult and can do what you want. The fact he waited until you are actually in the US should raise a huge flag of caution. If this is just his own decision (and not his parents pressuring him) then it shows he does not fully trust you since he waited until you were here to bring it up and could use the limited time to force you into signing it. Another possibility is that it is indeed his parents pressuring him because they don't trust you and see you as a gold-digging foreigner. If that is the case, then he is allowing his parents to run his life. Do you want a wet-noodle husband who is not able to make his own decisions? A real man will always honor and listen to the advice of his parents, but will not let them continue to control every part of his life even after he is an adult. I have seen plenty of adults who continue to let their parents control their lives and it is not pretty. It often causes major conflict with the spouse and will usually cause marital issues (which is a recipe for eventual divorce).

The first thing you should do is sit down with your fiance and have a very serious and clear discussion with him about this. First, I would find out why this is happening. Was it really his decision or was it his parents forcing him? Also, how long has he/they been planning this? Second, find out if this is just about the family business or is really about everything. If it is just about the business, then the contract shoule ONLY be related to the business and not everything. Finally, do not be afraid to NOT marry the man and go back to the Ukraine if that is what is necessary. A BAD MARRIAGE CAN BE MUCH WORSE THAN NO MARRIAGE. Also, if he says something like "You either sign this or we will not get married" then you should leave immediately and go back to the Ukraine, happy to have dodged a bullet.

My final advice is that if you do CHOOSE to sign the marriage contract after your discussion with him then you should tell him at this point he has broken your trust and needs to do something to earn it back. Tell him you will sign the contract, but you want to wait until after the marriage. If he had told you before you got here then this would not be necessary, but at this point he has no right to expect you to sign it right away. Though laws may vary from state to state, you should still just as easily be able to sign a contract after marriage that "in the event of divorce I lay no claim to the business, its property, future profits, etc". You should also make HIM hire the lawyer of your choosing to look over the contract and let you know exactly what it says (and also ensure it can be done after marriage or if there could be any complications).

Of course, the bottom line is I don't know your exact situation as well as you do and I am no lawyer so take my legal advice with caution. What I DO know is that you shold not be forced into signing something and you do have the right to leave the US so don't feel trapped.

AMEN TO THIS ENTIRE RESPONSE!

[Inna & Brian 11]

. and in case of divorce we will not have to deal with 50;50 sharing of things... what's mine will be mine and what's his will be his, he said "it will be like we are just boyfriend and girlfriend.. dont worry about it... it doesnt really mean anything"...

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL PRE-NUP!!

You are at serious risk to be put into sever financial difficulties. All the assets acquired during the marriage should be split 50/50. A marriage is a couple building a life together. If you were divorced, you could be sent away with nothing. No house, no savings, no retirement -- nothing!

Another problem is AOS. Would immigration consider this a real marriage? It sounds like he wants a sex partner and not a wife.

I wonder if he has even spoken to a lawyer? It may be too late to get a binding pre-nup agreement. At a divorce, the judge looks at many things to determine if the pre-nup is valid. Generally the closer to the marriage date the agreement is signed, the more likely to be held invalid. Also the judge will look at other factors. Such as not telling you about this before you moved and left everything behind. And whether you had an opportunity to consult with an independent attorney (in your native language). He will also have to disclose ALL his financial information and the business' financial information. If he fails to disclose all his information (and it has to be accurate) the agreement can be invalidated. Do you have a witness (that will always be on your side) when he said it means nothing? Are there children from a previous marriage? Are you planning on having children of your own?

Each state's laws are different and you must talk to an attorney that specializes in these agreements and can explain the agreement in your native language.

If the agreement is just about the business that may be OK but even then there are better ways to protect the business in case of death or divorce.

I'm sorry to say this but if he insists on you signing this type of agreement you should refuse and return to Ukraine. There are just too many red flags about this guy.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

. and in case of divorce we will not have to deal with 50;50 sharing of things... what's mine will be mine and what's his will be his, he said "it will be like we are just boyfriend and girlfriend.. dont worry about it... it doesnt really mean anything"...

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL PRE-NUP!!

You are at serious risk to be put into sever financial difficulties. All the assets acquired during the marriage should be split 50/50. A marriage is a couple building a life together. If you were divorced, you could be sent away with nothing. No house, no savings, no retirement -- nothing!

<snip>

If the agreement is just about the business that may be OK but even then there are better ways to protect the business in case of death or divorce.

Actually it IS a pretty standard pre-nup, especially in the cases of protecting family assets that he may inherit. He's right that it won't be a "50/50" split, but it could be a split 50/50 of anything EXCEPT family business stuff.

Honestly I would have no issue with a regular "what's mine is mine what's your is yours and what's ours during the marriage is 50/50" pre-nup for the simple fact that I'm a realist. Marriages sometimes DO end. I'm sure the vast majority of people who divorced didn't plan on it. If we were to divorce I wouldn't want a bitter fight over assets and what I'm "owed", the pre-nup takes that into account.. however how it's worded COULD be bad for you.. really depends on exactly what it says. I would NEVER sign anything like this without first speaking to a lawyer.

The secrecy surrounding the marriage sounds like his family does not approve of you and are pushing the pre-nup so he's not talking to them about the marriage until it's all said and done. Also however, it sounds like he DOES want the family business and money (which is his right) so he's making sure the pre-nup is in place before marrying you so that even though they might not LIKE that he's married, they are less likely to cut him off if the pre-nup is in place and if they do, he can just divorce you without issues.

The problem with this sort of "family business isn't included" pre-nup is it's likely ALL income of his will come from the family business so that's certainly not fair that he's entitled to 50/50 of your income but you to none of his. I would sign that you have no rights to the family business, but that you ARE entitled to a share of his income. Other issue there being sometimes the owners aren't usually paid in the same way as normal employees so he could say he's only earning a little amount when he really is of course "earning" more but just says it's business income/profits or what not. Divorces can get ugly and asset hiding is rampant.

I don't know if there's any REAL way to protect yourself fully in this sort of situation. Speaking to a lawyer is the only way to know for sure but if the whole situation seems fishy then leave. I think the reason he sprung this on you is so that you would feel less inclined to say no once you're here but could have just not come if you were back home when he told you.

Follow your gut. Love sometimes it's enough.

[RussianGirl 0]

mar2011, in your situation, I would not sign a marriage contract. Something just doesn't seem right to me.

[Fandango 1,439]

Personally I would tell him to stuff it and get on the next plane back to Ukraine. I am the US citizen and believe marriage is what it says, two people joining as one, for better or worse, richer or poorer and each gives 100% and shares equally in responsibilities and rewards, and no further contract is needed. It is the most important and sacred of contracts. If my future spouse did not agree on this very basic principle then we could not be married

I also think it very dishonest that this was not disclosed, but that seems normal for this guy and his family. It would be a deal breaker for me.

My wife and I are nothing like "boyfriend and girlfriend" and please ask him to refrain from insulting our institution and our efforts.

You are Ukrainian, I am guessing you are a much better than average looking woman (pretty safe guess) and you can do better. Go do it.

What an odd opportunity to make it about you. 'refrain from insulting our institution'??? Yours and Alla? Who cares if you think this guy is insulting your institution??? He doesn't even know you.

OP, prenups aren't always a bad thing...when both parties agree. I would be more concerned with the fact that it was sprung on you after you got here, without so much as a peep beforehand. To be perfectly honest, let's say you did sign it, and he did inherit something - which you agreed to not lay claim to in the event of a divorce...AND you did indeed divorce. The simple fact that you have already moved here to marry without knowing of this condition could pretty much invalidate your signature on it as having to sign it almost under duress, and detrimental reliance.

I would arrange to have your own consult with an attorney to look over the proposed agreement, so you are sure of what you are signing. Not the atty who drew it up, but your own. (eta - many states bar associations offer a discounted rate for 30 min consults...I know FL does, you can get one for $30. Check around online!)

I would also suggest you two go to a few premarital counseling sessions...it sounds to me that you two have different ideas of what marriage means, and that they are incongruent to one another.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Anita Cocktail