Got RFE for "divorce decree" but I already included it

[bestofboston 36]

Nigel and Meggie are correct.

My last divorce was in MA.

In the state of Ma., the first $20 gets you a certified divorce certificate, which is all I needed when getting my wife here.

The USCIS, NVC, and Manila Embassy did not ask for more to get my wife here from the Philippines.

It does cost more to get a certified copy of the divorce decree which provides all stipulations of the divorce.

You should not be surprised, if you blink, MA. wants to charge you for it.

Typically all that is needed is a certified copy of the divorce certificate at the NVC.

Perhaps it did not matter for me because I was already married.

It was not my first divorce. I had previously been divorced in New Hampshire. New Hampshires divorce document looks more like what you would expect. When I received my first letter from my Mass. attorney stating that the divorce would be final 90 days after whoever needed to sign it which could be up to 30 days after the divorce hearing. I asked my attorney is this a divorce decree? He responded as yes but I was not buying it.

So when applying for a CR1 visa, I went to Essex County Court house in Salem Ma to the county clerk office where I paid $20 for a one page document that stated that the divorce was absolute. I asked the clerk is this it. She responded yes unless I want a copy of the settlement which would cost more.

I said no thinks and got two certified copies of the absolute divorce document (single page). This is all that was needed for the CR-1 (I-130).

I did not send an original document to the USCIS. I did need to send an original to the NVC and I sent another original to my wife because she needed certified copies for the Manila Embassy interview.

Obviously you have someone who is not familiar with the MA divorce documents.

[Hiker 9]

My divorce was very simple, no children, and very little property. In RI, the "Family Court Final Judgement" was a simple 2 pages, and was signed by the lawyers, Justice of the Family Court, and the Clerk of the Family Court- or Administrator Clerk, as a true copy attest. Now, on top of that, there is another page, where the Clerk of the Family Court signs and swears that the Chief Judge of the Family Court's signature is genuine and authentic. Now, on top of that, another page where the Deputy Secretary of State signs her name swearing that the Administrator Clerk's signature is genuine and authentic. Then after that, another page where the Chief Judge of the Family Court signs and swears the Clerk of the Family Court's signature is genuine and authentic. Then they placed a pretty purple ribbon on it, with a gold seal. I went to the Secretary of State office to get this done. I sent the whole mess to New York Consulate General of the Philippines, where the Deputy Consul General of the Republic of the Philippines, certifies that the Secretary of State of RI is who she says she is, and swears the signature is genuine and authentic. I got another pretty ribbon, this time red, and that was sealed with a gold seal from the Philippine Consulate General. Once this whole journey is done, I guess I should hang it in a special frame it has so many seals, signatures and ribbons, etc.... Hope this helps someone, I used the services of the Philippines Consul General in New York to "exemplify" the document because I knew I was moving to the Philippines to get married, and this was a requirement that I could do from the states, at the same time I paid for a visa extension so I wouldn't have to do it 3 weeks after arriving there.

My divorce was simple too... no kids, and she wanted to travel the world (oooh how exciting - blah) and be carefree, so she had no interest in being the one to take the house. And, we did a "walk in" hearing because she happened to be in the area for a week before heading back out to Europe again. Your document sounds like it would be extremely difficult for me to get produced like that in Massachusetts. I have been to the Philippines consulate in NYC before to get a power of attorney document notarized, and I do recall it was quite fancy with the ribbon and everything.

I'm headed into Boston 3 hours from now to try to see if I can get the "decree" instead of the "certificate"... I'm nervous about it because I have no idea if I'll encounter someone helpful and competent, or if I'll encounter someone who can't be bothered to think past "you got the divorce decree already and there's nothing else I can give you", that is not uncommon to be found working in a government office.

[Hiker 9]

Just a thought, sometimes USCIS can misplace or overlook documents that you sent in. Send it in again and maybe attach a letter explaining your confusion and all, you'll probably get approved.

If you are divorced, you are diviorced. You can certainly later contact a senator or congressman and have them deal with USCIS, if for some reason there was still a problem.

Good luck!

I'd be nervous about that approach, because it is likely they did actually see the document, but didn't feel like putting any thought into it because it didn't happen to look like they expected it to. The RFE I got clearly said that I must send the full complete evidence they are asking for, in the same envelope, otherwise they will consider the case closed. So, I only have one chance to get it right and can't just take a chance that maybe they'll accept it the next time. I was already writing up a detailed letter, including the other court documents I have, but I suspect that will still end in denial unless I get what they really want.

I never thought it would be so difficult to prove divorce. I couldn't even deal with one wife, let alone two... and I'm not that studly either to be having my own little harem of multiple wives. I really don't want two wives thank you very much. I don't know how King Solomon did it with over 1000 of them....

[Hiker 9]

It was not my first divorce. I had previously been divorced in New Hampshire. New Hampshires divorce document looks more like what you would expect. When I received my first letter from my Mass. attorney stating that the divorce would be final 90 days after whoever needed to sign it which could be up to 30 days after the divorce hearing. I asked my attorney is this a divorce decree? He responded as yes but I was not buying it.

So when applying for a CR1 visa, I went to Essex County Court house in Salem Ma to the county clerk office where I paid $20 for a one page document that stated that the divorce was absolute. I asked the clerk is this it. She responded yes unless I want a copy of the settlement which would cost more.

I said no thinks and got two certified copies of the absolute divorce document (single page). This is all that was needed for the CR-1 (I-130).

I did not send an original document to the USCIS. I did need to send an original to the NVC and I sent another original to my wife because she needed certified copies for the Manila Embassy interview.

Obviously you have someone who is not familiar with the MA divorce documents.

So, the "divorce absolute" document worked for you but not for me?

[Hiker 9]

New update... I am still screwed! I just spent 10 minutes on the phone with the court, called the divorce department first and then forwarded to the copy department. They insist in no uncertain terms that the "certificate of divorce absolute" is the correct document, and that there is no other document. They said the only other thing they can give me is the Divorce Nisi, which I already have anyway and isn't what they want. So, there is no reason for me to make the trip in today, since I'll just end up talking to the same lady in person that I was talking to on the phone.

What am I supposed to do? I am greatly distressed here!

I would suggest calling the nice lady who I spoke to on (617) 768-5850. I'm sure she will point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the effort, but that nice lady gave me conflicting information from what you found out. See above post.

[dirtsquirter 7]

Did you try the Secretary of State's office? I know you are probably tired of the runaround, but they were able to do all of those signatures in one morning for me, just to prove those divorce papers were the real thing - GOOD LUCK!

[Hiker 9]

Did you try the Secretary of State's office? I know you are probably tired of the runaround, but they were able to do all of those signatures in one morning for me, just to prove those divorce papers were the real thing - GOOD LUCK!

No, but I'm really confused by that. I don't know how what you are suggesting to do works, as it sounds very non-standard for someone to need to do that, so I would not know what to ask for at a general-purpose secretary of state phone line, without just babbling incoherently about things the poor lady on the phone wouldn't know about anyway. What exactly would I ask for, and what would I bring them?

The online status suggests it is possible to call USCIS NCSC at 800-375-5283 if there are questions about what to submit. Did they just put that there just to put it there, or is it actually possible to call that number and get useful info out of them? Does the person answering the phone have any ability to look up the petition and what was submitted with it?

[Nigel&Meggie 40]

New update... I am still screwed! I just spent 10 minutes on the phone with the court, called the divorce department first and then forwarded to the copy department. They insist in no uncertain terms that the "certificate of divorce absolute" is the correct document, and that there is no other document. They said the only other thing they can give me is the Divorce Nisi, which I already have anyway and isn't what they want. So, there is no reason for me to make the trip in today, since I'll just end up talking to the same lady in person that I was talking to on the phone.

What am I supposed to do? I am greatly distressed here!

Thanks for the effort, but that nice lady gave me conflicting information from what you found out. See above post.

That is the complete opposite to what they told me yesterday. They specifically said (and I asked her twice to make sure I heard it right) that they were 2 different documents. The problem USCIS have with what you sent them is that nowhere on the document does it say it is a divorce decree. It's the magic word 'decree' they are looking for. It refers to a decree that is filed at the court, which suggests what the lady told me yesterday was correct - and that would be the document USCIS want.

Anyway, if they are refusing/unable to provide a decree then I guess all you can do is get the certificate of divorce absolute signed by a judge. Maybe if possible accompanied by a letter/statement from them stating that it is the decree absolute as provided by the State of Massachusettes. I'm sure they will do that for a fee of course.

[Chuward 5]

Go to the courthouse where the divorce occured and obtain an attested copy of a Massachusetts divorce record, an attested photocopy of the divorce agreement. This includes the details (if any) of the separation agreement, including issues such as alimony, insurance, custody, visitation, property ownership and or child support.

[dirtsquirter 7]

I just looked closer at my paperwork, nowhere does it say "decree" . It says family court final judgement. I don't think that part really matters, it's the official signatures and seals they are looking for - means it's authentic. Also, the part that they embossed, like a notary seal, says "family court" in the center. If my memory serves me, I went to the main courthouse, paid for that certified true copy, waited a week or so, when I picked it up, they had embossed it with the family court seal, and it was signed by the clerk of the family court. After receiving that official copy, I then brought that to the Secretary of State's office and there they did the multiple signature thing all swearing that they are all who they say they are. In the end, it went from 2 pages to 5. Your copy may need that embossing by the clerk, then on to the Secretary of State. If Mass is anything like RI, it could be the answer.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

It seems USCIS is wanting an attested photocopy of the divorce agreement to go along with your Certificate of Divorce Absolute. What you sent them clearly states there is a divorce decree, so they are wanting to see it. This site charges $100 to get this, but you can probably go to the courthouse yourself and get it cheaper than that. http://www.mass-doc.com/massachusetts_divorce_record_request.htm

[Hiker 9]

Okay, despite the uncertainty, I made a run to the courthouse today and have just returned. The nice thing about there is they have one giant records room for all the different departments like divorce, copy, file, etc. so they can all see each other from their stations and ask questions and interact. So, I went to the sign that said Divorce and explained things, showing her what I had and the RFE. She discussed it with two other people there in other departments for a few minutes. They all think I should have included the original (with the stamp) certificate, not the photocopy I gave VSC, despite the fact that the I-129F instructions say that a photocopy is fine. Also, they yet again reaffirmed that there aren't any other kinds of "real" divorce decree documents they can give me, nor can a judge sign it, nor can they have someone else certify that the document I'm sending is the correct one... the document is itself the divorce decree and certifies itself.

So, they also made certified copies (with the stamp) of the Divorce Nisi and separation agreement, which is 8 pages total. They said I should submit those originals with the certificate that I already have. So I guess I have to go with this and hope for the best?

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'm hoping to FedEx it tomorrow. BTW, what do I put for the address Attn:? For the petition, I put I-129F on the envelope... should I do something similar for the RFE and does my Receipt ID need to be on the envelope?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Hiker