Got RFE for "divorce decree" but I already included it

[Hiker 9]

Seriously, can these visa people be talked to ? I'll drive all the way to St. Albans, 4 hours away, if I have to. But, only if it is possible to see someone who can do something.

[Brian121957 43]

Indiana it is basically a 3 document process.

First document is the request to divorce. Worthless for proving a divorce but it starts the waiting clock running.

After 90 days the court will sign and approve the Divorce Decree. It is a simply 1 page signed by the judge.

The 3 document is the martial Settlement Agreement. It has all of the details. It also does not prove divorce only helps support the contention that you are divorced. The attorney said that even if the judge rejects the Martial Settlement Agreement and it has to be changed the Judge can still sign the Divorce Decree and "YOU ARE DIVORCED".

The Divorce Decree is the legal proof in Indiana.

[Brian121957 43]

I have copies of EVERY document that was part of my divorce. Every document was prepaired by my or her attorney. The courts do not generate ANY documenst in Indiana. They only approve or reject the papers you submit to the court.

[Nigel&Meggie 40]

Try calling the court and asking for the divorce decree and not the divorce certificate, there may be a difference as suggested by this below which I found online. USCIS specifically asks for the divorce Decree and I think you may have provided the divorce certificate. Just an idea.

Quote:

Divorce Decree is the document prepared by the court, setting forth the terms and conditions of the divorce. It is signed by the judge and filed with the County Clerk of the County where the decree was issued.

Divorce Certificate is the document issued by State Department of Health confirming the fact of divorce granted on or after a certain date. The Divorce Certificate contains basic information about the husband and wife, and the date and place the marriage ended.

[Hiker 9]

That's a good idea although I have no idea if such a distinction happens in Massachusetts. The "final" decree happens automatically, so I doubt a judge would need to sign that. It happens automatically just by doing nothing except the passage of time.

One more time... here is the documents I have, redacted of course.

First, I have piles and piles of papers prepared before the hearing, requesting court dates, etc. I really don't want to sift through this pile... it does not prove anything and confuses me too. It even has my financial records so that the judge can determine if I gave her enough.

Things only get interesting after the hearing. Here is the "Findings" document signed by the judge on the day of the hearing. This says she agrees with the pile of stuff we had placed before her, and we are official "separated":

Next, a month later, she signed the Divorce Nisi, which my lawyer later forwarded to me. There is nothing special about it being a month... that's probably how long it took them.

And finally, there is the divorce decree that you have already seen.

Does anything here help me?

[Hiker 9]

Oh, and I just heard back from my lawyer again. He says there is nothing else that the judge signs in the end. The divorce decree "just certifies that the decree nisi which the judge signed became final and absolute" - his words.

So, I guess it may be worthwhile to send that other stuff that this decree is certifying is final. But, I am still not highly confident here.

[Nigel&Meggie 40]

That's a good idea although I have no idea if such a distinction happens in Massachusetts. The "final" decree happens automatically, so I doubt a judge would need to sign that. It happens automatically just by doing nothing except the passage of time.

Ok, well I just called the court for you and asked them and they said the certificate of divorce absolute and the divorce decree are in fact 2 different documents. Again, I would suggest getting a copy of the divorce decree.

[Hiker 9]

Ok, well I just called the court for you and asked them and they said the certificate of divorce absolute and the divorce decree are in fact 2 different documents. Again, I would suggest getting a copy of the divorce decree.

You did?? Thanks very much! Although, I wonder how I am supposed to get this now. I specifically asked them for "divorce decree" in my letter.

[Nigel&Meggie 40]

You did?? Thanks very much! Although, I wonder how I am supposed to get this now. I specifically asked them for "divorce decree" in my letter.

I would suggest calling the nice lady who I spoke to on (617) 768-5850. I'm sure she will point you in the right direction.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Ok, well I just called the court for you and asked them and they said the certificate of divorce absolute and the divorce decree are in fact 2 different documents. Again, I would suggest getting a copy of the divorce decree.

Awesome fact-finding mission! And to think, all it needed was a simple phone call!

[Hiker 9]

I have a built-in fear of calling government offices... probably due to suppressed memories of previous trauma associated with it. I'm not sure what those are, but like I said it would be suppressed.

I think I'll just drop into the court building and see if I can talk to someone. The problem with this thing where they require I send a letter with the right magic words and a fee, and they reply, is that there's no way to talk to someone and make sure they really are giving me what it is I'm asking for. I'll bring the documents I have and say "No not this one - I have this and it is not correct", and also include the RFE. I hope this works... timing is bad since I'm on vacation next week and tomorrow I have to give a presentation in the morning... not sure if I can get over there in time. It may have to wait a week. Ugh more waiting....

[rostov007 29]

The other thing you can try is taking what you are SURE is the only official document available, highlighting it as previously suggested, to the Secretary of State's office for an apostille. This will certify that the county clerk's signature is original, valid, and is on record with the state.

We did this for my divorce decree and all documents that needed to be notarized because it was required in our case. They should not be required in your case, but it adds another layer of authenticity.

Best of luck

[dirtsquirter 7]

My divorce was very simple, no children, and very little property. In RI, the "Family Court Final Judgement" was a simple 2 pages, and was signed by the lawyers, Justice of the Family Court, and the Clerk of the Family Court- or Administrator Clerk, as a true copy attest. Now, on top of that, there is another page, where the Clerk of the Family Court signs and swears that the Chief Judge of the Family Court's signature is genuine and authentic. Now, on top of that, another page where the Deputy Secretary of State signs her name swearing that the Administrator Clerk's signature is genuine and authentic. Then after that, another page where the Chief Judge of the Family Court signs and swears the Clerk of the Family Court's signature is genuine and authentic. Then they placed a pretty purple ribbon on it, with a gold seal. I went to the Secretary of State office to get this done. I sent the whole mess to New York Consulate General of the Philippines, where the Deputy Consul General of the Republic of the Philippines, certifies that the Secretary of State of RI is who she says she is, and swears the signature is genuine and authentic. I got another pretty ribbon, this time red, and that was sealed with a gold seal from the Philippine Consulate General. Once this whole journey is done, I guess I should hang it in a special frame it has so many seals, signatures and ribbons, etc.... Hope this helps someone, I used the services of the Philippines Consul General in New York to "exemplify" the document because I knew I was moving to the Philippines to get married, and this was a requirement that I could do from the states, at the same time I paid for a visa extension so I wouldn't have to do it 3 weeks after arriving there.

[LookyWhatIFound 38]

I have no problem going to the court, nor paying large amounts of money to make this problem go away. I do not need to pay someone to get it for me, unless they have special skills that only allow them to get the document. It is just a train ride in there, and I've obviously been there before since I was able to get divorced there. That's not the problem. The problem is what the heck am I supposed to ask for?? I can't ask for something that doesn't exist, and if I ask for a divorce decree, they are going to give me what I already have.

I feel like I'm in a Monty Python skit, except I'm not laughing.

If you worked in a restaurant and a customer ordered a ham sandwich, and you brought them a ham sandwich, and they said "No I said a ham sandwich, take this back and bring me one", you'd think they are insane. Are you supposed to bring them back the same ham sandwich, a different ham sandwich that basically looks the same, or does the ham sandwich need to be improved upon in some unspecified way even though the customer is not making that complaint, but is instead saying he wants a ham sandwich.

Make sense?

But the divorce nisi happens before the decree. A decree would not set forth anything about a judgment of divorce nisi.

I can certainly do that, but I expect that will end in failure. The only document that is actually a divorce decree is what I already sent them, so sending them other stuff is not giving them specifically what they asked for. I need them to explain what they think a divorce decree actually is, if it isn't the divorce decree.

Just a thought, sometimes USCIS can misplace or overlook documents that you sent in. Send it in again and maybe attach a letter explaining your confusion and all, you'll probably get approved.

If you are divorced, you are diviorced. You can certainly later contact a senator or congressman and have them deal with USCIS, if for some reason there was still a problem.

Good luck!

[bestofboston 36]

I got the RFE letter in the mail today. They want the "divorce decree". But, I already included that in the original request; I paid $20 to the court's copy office to get the document, and included it with the I-129F and also listed it in the table of contents. There is nothing else that Massachusetts courts issue when you request proof of divorce. What am I supposed to do???

Nigel and Meggie are correct.

My last divorce was in MA.

In the state of Ma., the first $20 gets you a certified divorce certificate, which is all I needed when getting my wife here.

The USCIS, NVC, and Manila Embassy did not ask for more to get my wife here from the Philippines.

It does cost more to get a certified copy of the divorce decree which provides all stipulations of the divorce.

You should not be surprised, if you blink, MA. wants to charge you for it.

Typically all that is needed is a certified copy of the divorce certificate at the NVC.

Perhaps it did not matter for me because I was already married.