Is it time to REDEFINE PEDOPHILES?

[Zero Sum 305]

See, to me that is flawed. They could have just as easily ran another test group after this study was completed. With the technology available, there's no reason why not to run a similar study with alternative imagery that might seem more 'flattering' to one who is considered to be attracted to young children. As I said earlier though, there are some moral boundaries that would have to be crossed.

The only conclusion that they gained from this study was that there was less activity in those areas of the brain when they were attempting to stimulate them with adult imagery. While it's a start, it's hardly anything to do off of. They even state that they cannot tell at this point any difference between someone who was abused or not abused at one point or another.

This is one of those situations that we won't get any type of conclusion until a full study, with a larger test group is able to be done.

To you its a flaw. To reality, it might be many other things. Shortage of funds being a primary deciding factor. Consider the costs involved with adding an entirely new set of control and experimental groups- you'd need two more to test the new variable: pictures of children.

As for making those pictures sexually provocative, that indeed is where we fall into the morality issue.

As for the conclusions, to you they may be insignificant, or insufficient, but in order to point a causal finger at something, you should be able to show the opposite as a significant case here. And that's what they did. If you view this as a flaw, it only goes to show that you have a flawed understanding of scientific methodology.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Zero Sum

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not exactly. Any psychologist/psychiatrist that claims they can remedy someone with pedophiia is lying to themselves and is completely dishonest in their practice.

The article you posted clearly implies that pedophilia is a condition that requires treatment.

One of the study's authors, Georg Northoff, M.D., Ph.D., adds, "[These findings] may open the door for better understanding the neurobiology of this disorder which is of forensic, criminal and public concern. Our results may thus be seen as the first step towards establishing a neurobiology of pedophilia which ultimately may contribute to the development of new and effective means of therapies for this debilitating disorder."

[Zero Sum 305]

Not exactly. Any psychologist/psychiatrist that claims they can remedy someone with pedophiia is lying to themselves and is completely dishonest in their practice.

Very true.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

I don't see why it's not a fair comparison. It's about what's real Vs. what's pretend. If it were only about a child's appearance why then are there so many news stories about pedophiles abducting and sexually abusing children? I realise that a lot of this is driven by media sensationalism, but why is it then that this happens? Is it just that those people who become child sex offenders can't find partners with an agreeable physical appearance?

Have you not been reading my posts? Pedophile does not equal sex offender. An otherwise healthy and functioning Pedophile doesn't need to abduct children just like an other wise healthy and functioned "adultophile" doesn't need to abduct, rape, murder other adults. There is something else going on with the ones who do. Further, if it was a pedophile issue then only Pedophiles would sexually assault children and that simply isn't the case.

[Zero Sum 305]

The article you posted clearly implies that pedophilia is a condition that requires treatment.

They are in the process of deciphering the mechanisms for pedophilia. I suppose since the initial findings, more studies have been put underway in new test populations. Hopefully this may shine a light on specific treatment targets.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Not exactly. Any psychologist/psychiatrist that claims they can remedy someone with pedophiia is lying to themselves and is completely dishonest in their practice.

Just like homosexuality and alcoholism can't be "cured".

Pedophilia can be managed just like Alcoholism.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Have you not been reading my posts? Pedophile does not equal sex offender. An otherwise healthy and functioning Pedophile doesn't need to abduct children just like an other wise healthy and functioned "adultophile" doesn't need to abduct, rape, murder other adults. There is something else going on with the ones who do.

So what is the difference between the people who do act on their impulses and the people who don't, besides the end result?

Further, if it was a pedophile issue then only Pedophiles would sexually assault children and that simply isn't the case.

No, but it is more likely.

Just like homosexuality and alcoholism can't be "cured".

Pedophilia can be managed just like Alcoholism.

Alcoholism and substance abuse are acquired problems. I thought it was being suggested earlier that sexual preferences are inherent, not learned.

[Zero Sum 305]

You may be interested in this additional study done by the same folks that brought you the "lessened brain activation in pedophiles when shown adult pics study:"

Link.

Look at the percentages as to differences, too. 61%, 35%, 13%, 22%... This says something about the child porn being even more significant in activating those brains more than control groups.

Demonstrating a Link between Child Pornography and Pedophilia

Justice statistics suggest that there is an increase in the child pornography investigations. Given this, clinicians may be asked more often to assess child pornography offenders. A particularly useful question during assessment is whether a child pornography offender is a pedophile. CAMH's Drs. Michael Seto, James Cantor and Ray Blanchard published a study in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, entitled Child Pornography Offenses Are a Valid Diagnostic Indicator of Pedophilia, which investigated whether child pornography offenses are a valid diagnostic indicator of pedophilia.

Using a sample of 685 male patients referred to CAMH between 1995 and 2004, the study showed that 61% of child pornography offenders, 35% of offenders with child victims, 13% of offenders with adult victims, and 22% of general sexology patients met diagnostic criteria for pedophilia by showing greater sexual arousal to stimuli depicting children than to stimuli depicting adults in the laboratory. In other words, child pornography offenders were almost twice as likely of being identified as a pedophile, compared to the participants identified as offenders against children (sexual offenses against children 14 or young)

The results indicate that child pornography offending is a valid diagnostic indicator of pedophilia. This group was significantly more likely to show a pedophilic pattern of sexual arousal during testing compared to the other study groups. The results suggest that child pornography offending might be a stronger indicator of pedophilia than is sexually offending against a child. In fact, child pornography offenders - regardless of whether they had a history of sexual offenses against children - were more likely than child offenders to show a pattern of sexual arousal consistent with the pattern of identified pedophiles.

Currently, clinicians rely on three potential sources of information when considering a diagnosis of pedophilia: self-report, a history of sexual behaviour involving children, and psychological assessment. While useful, these methods do have limitations. These results from Dr. Seto and colleagues may be a particularly helpful diagnostic tool in circumstances in which a person denies a sexual interest in prepubescent children, or has no documented history of sexual behaviour involving children.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

So what is the difference between the people who do act on their impulses and the people who don't, besides the end result?

Exactly, what makes you difference from someone else who shares your sexual orientation/preferences but has raped {and maybe murdered} someone?

No, but it is more likely.

Statistics don't agree with you on that one. Most Child Sex Offenders do not identify as Pedophiles and in fact the victims are convenience (easier to either emotionally manipulate or physically force).

Alcoholism and substance abuse are acquired problems. I thought it was being suggested earlier that sexual preferences are inherent, not learned.

Studies suggest that Alcoholism has biological (genetic) roots and not can some people be predisposed but even some racial backgrounds can contribute to lesser resistance to it negative effects.

[Zero Sum 305]

Well there appears to be growing evidence, see above, that they may deny pedophilia, but their brains will likely betray their potential excuse.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

You may be interested in this additional study done by the same folks that brought you the "lessened brain activation in pedophiles when shown adult pics study:"

Look at the percentages as to differences, too. 61%, 35%, 13%, 22%... This says something about the child porn being even more significant in activating those brains more than control groups.

Again, should I be surprised that a Pedophile's brain reacts with arousal to a naked kid picture more than a lesbian's brain reacting the same way to a naked woman picture?

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Well there appears to be growing evidence, see above, that they may deny pedophilia, but their brains will likely betray their potential excuse.

61% of child pornography offenders, 35% of offenders with child victims

So 61% of people arrested for looking a naked pics of kids are sexually attracted to kids, if it was a Pedophile problem then I would expect it to be 100%.

I would say that only 1 out of 3 Child Sex Offenders demonstrating the sexual attraction to kids supports what I've been saying all along, again if the was a "Pedophile problem" I'd expect it to be 100%.

Why not figure out the common thread, you something that is relevant to over 90% of the cases?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's seriously insulting to compare and equate pedophiles to Muslims, Blacks and gays. Muslims, Blacks or gays do not, by definition, undress kids in their minds and long to have sex with them. That is sick, sick, sick and not acceptable in any healthy venue.

It's not about "what changes" it's about understanding the differences.

Just like not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslim, not all Pedophiles are Sex Offenders and not all Sex Offenders are Pedophiles so to equal the two is wrong.

How many groups have been outcast and down-trodden using blanket phrases like "I don't want those folks/people around"?

As the father of 2 boys and 2 girls I don't want anyone around them that will hurt them but I also understand that if I isolate them from everyone who may hurt them then they will live a lonely isolated life.

Black used to be "those folks".

Gays used to be "those folks".

Some people currently classify Muslims as "those folks".

[Zero Sum 305]

Here's some more (abstracts this time):

J Psychiatr Res. 2008 Feb;42(3):167-83. Epub 2007 Nov 26.

Cerebral white matter deficiencies in pedophilic men.

The present investigation sought to identify which brain regions distinguish pedophilic from nonpedophilic men, using unbiased, automated analyses of the whole brain. T1-weighted magnetic resonance images (MRIs) were acquired from men who demonstrated illegal or clinically significant sexual behaviors or interests (n = 65) and from men who had histories of nonsexual offenses but no sexual offenses (n = 62). Sexual interest in children was assessed by participants' admissions of pedophilic interest, histories of committing sexual offenses against children, and psychophysiological responses in the laboratory to erotic stimuli depicting children or adults. Automated parcellation of the MRIs revealed significant negative associations between pedophilia and white matter volumes of the temporal and parietal lobes bilaterally. Voxel-based morphometry corroborated the associations and indicated that the regions of lower white matter volumes followed, and were limited to, two major fiber bundles: the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus and the right arcuate fasciculus. No significant differences were found in grey matter or in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). Because the superior fronto-occipital and arcuate fasciculi connect the cortical regions that respond to sexual cues, these results suggest (1) that those cortical regions operate as a network for recognizing sexually relevant stimuli and (2) that pedophilia results from a partial disconnection within that network.

Sex Abuse. 2007 Dec;19(4):395-407. Epub 2007 Oct 19.

Physical height in pedophilic and hebephilic sexual offenders.

Adult men's height reflects, not only their genetic endowment, but also the conditions that were present during their development in utero and in childhood. We compared the adult heights of men who committed one or more sexual offenses and who were erotically interested in prepubescent children (pedophilic sexual offenders; n=223), those who were erotically interested in pubescent children (hebephilic sexual offenders; n=615), and those who were erotically interested in adults (teleiophilic sexual offenders; n=187), as well as men who had no known sexual offenses and who were erotically interested in adults (teleiophilic nonoffender controls; n=156). The pedophilic and the hebephilic sexual offenders were significantly shorter than the teleiophilic nonoffender controls. The teleiophilic sexual offenders were intermediate in height between the nonoffenders and the pedophilic and hebephilic sexual offenders and not significantly different from any of the other groups. This suggests that-regardless of whatever psychological sequelae might also have followed from the conditions present during early development-pedophilic and hebephilic sexual offenders were subject to conditions capable of affecting their physiological development.

Sex Abuse. 2007 Sep;19(3):285-309. Epub 2007 Jul 17.

IQ, handedness, and pedophilia in adult male patients stratified by referral source.

This study investigated whether the previously observed association of pedophilia with lower IQs is an artifact of heterogeneity in referral source. The subjects were 832 adult male patients referred to a specialty clinic for evaluation of their sexual behavior. The patients' erotic preferences for prepubescent, pubescent, or adult partners were assessed with phallometric testing. Full scale IQ was estimated using six subtests from the WAIS-R. The results showed that the relations between pedophilia and lower IQ, lesser education, and increased rates of non-right-handedness were the same in homogeneous groups referred by lawyers or parole and probation officers as they were in a heterogeneous group referred by a miscellany of other sources. Those results, along with secondary analyses in the study, supported the conclusion that the relation between pedophilia and cognitive function is genuine and not artifactual. The findings were interpreted as evidence for the hypothesis that neurodevelopmental perturbations increase the risk of pedophilia in males.

Arch Sex Behav. 2009 Jun;38(3):335-50. Epub 2008 Aug 7.

Pedophilia, hebephilia, and the DSM-V.

The term pedophilia denotes the erotic preference for prepubescent children. The term hebephilia has been proposed to denote the erotic preference for pubescent children (roughly, ages 11 or 12-14), but it has not become widely used. The present study sought to validate the concept of hebephilia by examining the agreement between self-reported sexual interests and objectively recorded penile responses in the laboratory. The participants were 881 men who were referred for clinical assessment because of paraphilic, criminal, or otherwise problematic sexual behavior. Within-group comparisons showed that men who verbally reported maximum sexual attraction to pubescent children had greater penile responses to depictions of pubescent children than to depictions of younger or older persons. Between-groups comparisons showed that penile responding distinguished such men from those who reported maximum attraction to prepubescent children and from those who reported maximum attraction to fully grown persons. These results indicated that hebephilia exists as a discriminable erotic age-preference. The authors recommend various ways in which the DSM might be altered to accommodate the present findings. One possibility would be to replace the diagnosis of Pedophilia with Pedohebephilia and allow the clinician to specify one of three subtypes: Sexually Attracted to Children Younger than 11 (Pedophilic Type), Sexually Attracted to Children Age 11-14 (Hebephilic Type), or Sexually Attracted to Both (Pedohebephilic Type). We further recommend that the DSM-V encourage users to record the typical age of children who most attract the patient sexually as well as the gender of children who most attract the patient sexually.

Again, should I be surprised that a Pedophile's brain reacts with arousal to a naked kid picture more than a lesbian's brain reacting the same way to a naked woman picture?

Some people need convincing of these obvious cues. The bonus comes from the new data showing the parts of the brain being activated in this way under these conditions.

[Zero Sum 305]

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So 61% of people arrested for looking a naked pics of kids are sexually attracted to kids, if it was a Pedophile problem then I would expect it to be 100%.

I would say that only 1 out of 3 Child Sex Offenders demonstrating the sexual attraction to kids supports what I've been saying all along, again if the was a "Pedophile problem" I'd expect it to be 100%.

Why not figure out the common thread, you something that is relevant to over 90% of the cases?

The numbers are not set in stone, Bob. Remember that many assessments can be manipulated by the assessee- think beating a lie detector test. Furthermore, within the sample population, there will always be unknowns influencing the data that is collected. This is why sample sizes are always better the larger they are.

61% is a very telling figure, particularly when we compare groups, with the 'closest' assessed group being about half as likely to experience the same effect.