Israeli-Arab Crisis Approaching

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Its not only directed toward Arabs, they just seem to be the only people that have to think about it. This Muslim Israeli BS is going to be the end of this world.

Not really. A corresponding question could be asked about the right of Palestine to exist.

Lets say they loose the "entitlement mentality". Where do you suggest we move them to?

Well, that was part of what was so curious, imo. Scandal posted about how Israel is entitled to the land it occupies and not one person, other than myself questioned that notion. I was immediately attacked for it. Is it taboo to speak in opposition of that view? On what basis is it an acceptable notion?

[_Simpson_ 250]

Good grief, Simpson. Following your tortured logic, the original Israel was stolen from pagans, too. Besides, it wasn't a nation as we know it back then, either

It wasn't only the Pagans I know the history OK. I just suggested the Pagans so we didnt have to deal with this religious BS and the wars that that it will bring.

Events before or after WWII don't establish an entitlement for Israel.

IYO what entitles one to land?

[_Simpson_ 250]

The Most Harmful Place for Jews is in Israel

You didn't listen to all the parts of the lecture, obviously.

I'm not watching the whole series of videos. I know the history, just get to your point.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Not really. A corresponding question could be asked about the right of Palestine to exist.

Very little people ask that question because its just assumed. One would think that this would be the logic when talking about Israel but thanks to a lot of Islam it is not.

Well, that was part of what was so curious, imo. Scandal posted about how Israel is entitled to the land it occupies and not one person, other than myself questioned that notion. I was immediately attacked for it. Is it taboo to speak in opposition of that view? On what basis is it an acceptable notion?

Do you think the people of Palestine are entitled to this land? You were attacked because its silly to suggest that Israel doesn't have the right to exist.

Edited August 24, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Sofiyya 1,687]

IYO what entitles one to land?

I've opposed the concept of entitlement as a reason for the continued occupation of land in Israel. It's curious that neither you or anyone else thinks to ask your question of the one who raised the idea that there is an existing entitlement. Why doesn't he face me himself for disagreeing with him?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Very little people ask that question because its just assumed. One would think that this would be the logic when talking about Israel but thanks to a lot Islam it is not.

That kind of thinking is why there will not be peace in the Middle East.

Do you think the people of Palestine are entitled to this land? You were attacked because its silly to suggest that Israel doesn't have the right to exist.

I think that the people of all stripes who lived there before and who were expelled by folks who believe they have a right to a predominantly Jewish state where there was not one before, and that the ends justified the means to get it are entitled to a right of return to the land stolen from them, AND a Palestinian state.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I've opposed the concept of entitlement as a reason for the continued occupation of land in Israel. It's curious that neither you or anyone else thinks to ask your question of the one who raised the idea that there is an existing entitlement. Why doesn't he face me himself for disagreeing with him?

I'm sure he will, I'm not trying to represent him in any way and I'm sure he doesnt want me to considering we disagree on just about everything under the sun. I was only commenting on something you posted that I disagreed with.

I didn't question Scandal on Israels right to exist because I agree with him based on the reasoning we have been addressing in these recent posts. You keep going back to this word entitlement(yes I know thats the word he used) but dam Israel has a right to exist. Why cant you just accept that and help move towards a peaceful solution? Denying Israel's right to exist is only going to lead to death and destruction.

Edited August 24, 2011 by _Simpson_

[The_Dude 1,142]

That kind of thinking is why there will not be peace in the Middle East.

I think that the people of all stripes who lived there before and who were expelled by folks who believe they have a right to a predominantly Jewish state where there was not one before, and that the ends justified the means to get it are entitled to a right of return to the land stolen from them, AND a Palestinian state.

You won't have peace in the middle east until you extricate those whose sole goal is to destroy Israel. Even if they did concede land back to the pre 67 borders, you would still have nutjobs like the president of Iran calling for it's destruction.

[_Simpson_ 250]

That kind of thinking is why there will not be peace in the Middle East.

I like how you avoid bring the religous aspect into all this by acting that its just about stolen land. At the heart of this is the religious ties and for that reason there will never be peace in the middle east.

I think that the people of all stripes who lived there before and who were expelled by folks who believe they have a right to a predominantly Jewish state where there was not one before, and that the ends justified the means to get it are entitled to a right of return to the land stolen from them, AND a Palestinian state.

We live in today. What is a sensible solution, ship them off? Your sort fix it solution is maddening.

Edited August 24, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Golden Gate 530]

I like how you avoid bring the religous aspect into all this by acting that its just about stolen land. At the heart of this is the religious ties and for that reason there will never be peace in the middle east.

The people co-habitated there for centuries before all this.

We live in today. What is a sensible solution, ship them off? Your sort fix it solution is maddening.

Hmmm. That was Israel's solution to the people who were living there when they decided to move in.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm sure he will, I'm not trying to represent him in any way and I'm sure he doesnt want me to considering we disagree on just about everything under the sun. I was only commenting on something you posted that I disagreed with.

There is no issue on this board that doesn't have multiple members arguing at least two sides - except this one. I'm wondering what has happened that is stifling dissent. I know when IR5 posts something on this subject that scandal disagrees with, scandal openly bullies him, threatening their friendship unless he recants his opinion, which he does. I'm just wondering if there is more of that sort of thing going on behind the scenes since I don't spend time on the off-VJ gathering sites that I hear about.

I didn't question Scandal on Israels right to exist because I agree with him based on the reasoning we have been addressing in these recent posts. You keep going back to this word entitlement(yes I know thats the word he used) but dam Israel has a right to exist. Why cant you just accept that and help move towards a peaceful solution? Denying Israel's right to exist is only going to lead to death and destruction.

No nation has the right to exist. That is an emotional argument, not one that resides in fact, law, or history. Nations have risen and fallen by their ability to defend their borders or by their recognition as a nation. A right to exist is en ethereal matter, not one that can be made legitimate by the weight of opinion.

You won't have peace in the middle east until you extricate those whose sole goal is to destroy Israel. Even if they did concede land back to the pre 67 borders, you would still have nutjobs like the president of Iran calling for it's destruction.

The nutjobs that control Israel are inadvertently plotting its destruction. The rest of us can just sit back and watch.

[mawilson 2,133]

I said that Israel is a terrorist nation because it was conceived in terror, and that is a historically verifiable statement.

Are all nations "conceived in terror" terrorist nations?

Do you then consider the United States a terrorist nation?

[The_Dude 1,142]

The nutjobs that control Israel are inadvertently plotting its destruction. The rest of us can just sit back and watch.

Care to substantiate that, or is this just more vitriol as usual?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I like how you avoid bring the religous aspect into all this by acting that its just about stolen land. At the heart of this is the religious ties and for that reason there will never be peace in the middle east.

How do religious ties that didn't exist for centuries override the property rights of people who had their land taken from them by Europeans whose goal was to drive out the non-Jews to create a Jewish homeland? Tell me, where else on earth do you support the supremacy of one religion as a basis for nation building?

We live in today. What is a sensible solution, ship them off? Your sort fix it solution is maddening.

The Zionists shipped my family off their land and want to deprive us of the right to return that they believe is the entitlement of their Jewish brethren. It is a fundamental policy of the Israeli government to maintain Jewish rule over an intended minority of non-Jewish residents. Is that ok with you, too? If so, in what other nation do you support the dominance of one religion over all others? Saudi Arabia?

I am looking for consistency in your logic. Please comply.

You won't have peace in the middle east until you extricate those whose sole goal is to destroy Israel. Even if they did concede land back to the pre 67 borders, you would still have nutjobs like the president of Iran calling for it's destruction.

This is your statement. Please substantiate it or concede that it's vitriol, as usual.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Sofiyya

[mawilson 2,133]

I wonder how many Muslims scandal or his supporters have on their payroll. I have eleven Jewish employees at this time, including my gay personal assistant, Justin.

Not to derail this thread, but I'm curious why you felt the need to emphasize his sexual orientation. You've mentioned Justin the gay a couple of times before.

Do you introduce him to people as "Justin, my gay assistant"?

What are you trying to say? "I'm not a homophobic bigot because I have a gay assistant"? Are trying to pull a Donald Trump? "I have a great relationship with the gays?"