LLM degree

[Captain Hammer 113]

I can't seem to find the thread, but I thought I remembered someone here in RUB saying they were either working on an LLM, had obtained one, or had at least pursued it. Vague enough for ya?

Anyway, my questions: Has anyone here got experience with the LLM degree? My wife was doing a JD (part-time) but has decided to apply the credits she's already taken to an LLM. Turns out she got some bad admissions advice when she was looking at US law schools and she didn't need to start over with a JD after all (she has a Jurist degree already and practiced in Ukraine). Luckily that's not $27k down the hole since she can shift the credits she's taken. She wanted to focus on environmental law and there's a LLM in that at her law school. What I wanted to know is, do law firms and public interest law groups take an LLM seriously? She received some bad advice before at the law school, so I'm wary of what they're telling her now. She spoke to LLM students over the summer and they back up what she has decided to do but since I don't know anyone with an LLM, I have no clue. Any ideas?

[1HappyGuy 45]

I think the LLM is viewed like the MBA regarding business degrees, etc. The specialization is often a key component to a law firm wishing to expand into an area that has good potential and growth. The really big trick is passing the bar exam in your state. Even with a JD it is not a slam dunk. Without the license, the LLM just makes someone a highly qualified para legal.

[The_Dude 1,142]

If I recall correctly, someone in the UK forum (Elmcitymaven) had said that they were going through the same process. I'll send her a PM and see if she has any words of wisdom.

[Captain Hammer 113]

If I recall correctly, someone in the UK forum (Elmcitymaven) had said that they were going through the same process. I'll send her a PM and see if she has any words of wisdom.

Ah, that might have been what I was thinking of. Thank you sir!

[TBoneTX 46,068]

LLM = localized leukocyte mobilization?

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

*tiptoes gingerly in the RUB forum*

Yes, it's me who is going for the LLM next year. I did my legal education in England, and because of various rules at the state level I cannot just sit for the bar without going for an extra year of legal education, since law school for me was only two years. It is different from state to state, but most states (I believe) allow lawyers from common law jurisdictions (like England/Canada/Aus/etc) a little more leeway in this regard under certain circumstances (like if I had done an undergrad LLB over there, and then practised, I might be eligible to sit for the bar without the LLM).

However, it's different for civil law jurisdictions -- I assume your wife was a lawyer in Ukraine? She'll need to do an LLM and take the appropriate courses in US legal method. Whoever told her she needed to do a JD was full of ****! I have no idea what state you're in, but have a look at their Bar Association website and look at the rules for foreign lawyers. It's likely they are no harder than those in California (which are some of, if not the, toughest in the US) and an LLM can "cure" her credentials.

Just to correct what 1HappyGuy said about the LLM -- LLMs come in different shapes and sizes. Some, like ones that focus on taxation or intellectual property, are usually undertaken by US-educated JDs who are looking for greater depth in a particular area. Other LLMs are more general in outlook (but can have a focus) and are mostly undertaken by foreign-educated lawyers looking to qualify to sit for the bar. It does indeed rest on whether or not you pass the bar in a given state as to whether you can practice, but I am currently one of the "overqualified paralegals" you speak of (unable to sit the bar -- yet) and I can tell you that my boss sees me as and treats me as a lawyer. He refers to me as "undercredentialed."

*tiptoes out*

[Captain Hammer 113]

Thanks elmcitymaven!!

I'm going to digest this for now and pass the info on to Victoria, but very happy to know it's not just another masters (seems like schools are just handing them out these days whether they're useful or not) but a real, professional qualification. Your experience with a foreign degree is spot on too, that's exactly our situation as well.

I think I might be more concerned than her; one of the things I admire about Victoria is that she's not only one of the smartest attorneys I know (and I know me ), she's also very confident once she sets her mind to something. Perfect GPA so far, which helped a lot getting her qualified for the program, and she's even being courted by some campus organizations.

Oh and no need to tiptoe in or out, helpful people are welcome here any time!

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Oh and no need to tiptoe in or out, helpful people are welcome here any time!

Uh, I've had enough run-ins here to be very careful not to linger.

Congrats on Victoria doing so well over here at law school! Being a 1L is, I gather, NOTHING like what my own (and probably Victoria's) experience of the first year of law school. It's waaaaaaay more cutthroat from what my US lawyer friends tell me. My first year was intense (cramming three years of an undergrad law degree into one year) but there wasn't much competition amongst students from what I can recall. Also, considering how much even one year part time can cost, it's great she can just move those credits over. Hopefully she was doing something useful like Contract and Torts. I have seen that the programme at my first choice school is NOT cheap -- make sure you guys can afford it all before that first day.

She wants to do environmental law? Very, very cool.

[Captain Hammer 113]

Uh, I've had enough run-ins here to be very careful not to linger.

Sorry to hear that. Some of us are nice though.

Congrats on Victoria doing so well over here at law school! Being a 1L is, I gather, NOTHING like what my own (and probably Victoria's) experience of the first year of law school. It's waaaaaaay more cutthroat from what my US lawyer friends tell me. My first year was intense (cramming three years of an undergrad law degree into one year) but there wasn't much competition amongst students from what I can recall.

Yep, we can confirm that. Victoria thinks some of the professors were harder on her because she was a foreigner. Some of the students were downright nasty too, although not because she was a foreigner, just because the competition is so cut-throat. Or I don't know, maybe there was some resentment that a foreign woman was heads and shoulders better than anyone else there, but she didn't notice and didn't care if there was. I remember it being intense during my undergrad days too, although I was pretty lucky to have pledged into a great fraternity. Some people like my wife are born with sheer talent, while others like myself know how to know the right people to help.

Also, considering how much even one year part time can cost, it's great she can just move those credits over. Hopefully she was doing something useful like Contract and Torts. I have seen that the programme at my first choice school is NOT cheap -- make sure you guys can afford it all before that first day.

Yep, contracts, torts, civil procedure, the usual. Money's not a problem. Victoria's able to pay her own way without having to work. Her family's pretty well off, and her career back in Kyiv paid very well. I guess I got lucky and married a bona fide Russian princess.

Anyway, she starts back up in a couple weeks, and while finances won't be a big deal, we won't be seeing much of each other until the semester break. I'd pay double tuition if it meant we didn't lose all that time together.

She wants to do environmental law? Very, very cool.

Yes! She's stoked! She's had a pretty wild career so far, did a lot of pro bono work. Pro bono is almost unheard of in Ukraine, but she digs the underdog. I just hope nobody in my company (big bad oil) ever has to go up against her.

[Captain Hammer 113]

LLM = localized leukocyte mobilization?

LLM is a Master of Laws degree.

[TBoneTX 46,068]

LLM is a Master of Laws degree.

Si si si, right man... but if one masterlaws, especially in public or around children, isn't it illegal?

[Captain Hammer 113]

Si si si, right man... but if one masterlaws, especially in public or around children, isn't it illegal?

Technically it's only paralegal as long as you're not showing your pro bono.

[Robert&Liliya 31]

I try to keep my Pro Bono covered.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Thanks elmcitymaven!!

I'm going to digest this for now and pass the info on to Victoria, but very happy to know it's not just another masters (seems like schools are just handing them out these days whether they're useful or not) but a real, professional qualification. Your experience with a foreign degree is spot on too, that's exactly our situation as well.

I think I might be more concerned than her; one of the things I admire about Victoria is that she's not only one of the smartest attorneys I know (and I know me ), she's also very confident once she sets her mind to something. Perfect GPA so far, which helped a lot getting her qualified for the program, and she's even being courted by some campus organizations.

Oh and no need to tiptoe in or out, helpful people are welcome here any time!

That sounds like a backhanded compliment.

[TBoneTX 46,068]

I try to keep my Pro Bono covered.

A codpiece is handy for such endeavors, verily, wot.