More than 50 rockets fired from Gaza, Israeli killed

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Goading is a form of bullying, but all deny that any bullying goes on. Never mind that Muslim members are repeatedly demanded to respond for the "terrorists" on each thread, as though they are responsible for their acts and have to prove their worthiness each thread. Nevermind that the +1s are for one view only. Members of all types are made to feel welcome here.

Blah, blah, blah.

Think of it as a form of Dawah. Some people will believe whatever they believe, HE has sealed their hearts, so what are you going to do?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Think of it as a form of Dawah. Some people will believe whatever they believe, HE has sealed their hearts, so what are you going to do?

He's supposed to be your friend. Some friend, but that's between the two of you. The greater issue is the board claim that we should all be sensitive about offending our diversity of members is what I'm addressing. We're not supposed to say that Israel is a terrorist nation, but the constant questioning of Muslims only on the board as to whether their loyalties are with terrorists (read Muslims) or with Israelis (read always the victims) belies claims of participant equity and assumes that only one point of view has any validity that merits expression.

Every other subject on this board has at least two sides, vigorously advocated. This subject is allowed only one, and it wasn't always like that. Standing up for diversity of opinion is as important as dawah. There can be no dawah, no justice, if one side is always the accused.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Golden Gate 530]

He's supposed to be your friend. Some friend, but that's between the two of you. The greater issue is the board claim that we should all be sensitive about offending our diversity of members is what I'm addressing. We're not supposed to say that Israel is a terrorist nation, but the constant questioning of Muslims only on the board as to whether their loyalties are with terrorists (read Muslims) or with Israelis (read always the victims) belies claims of participant equity and assumes that only one point of view has any validity that merits expression.

Every other subject on this board has at least two sides, vigorously advocated. This subject is allowed only one, and it wasn't always like that. Standing up for diversity of opinion is as important as dawah. There can be no dawah, no justice, if one side is always the accused.

I agree. I was starting to get paranoid. The feeling is like you are getting lobbed, but then when you respond, it is just ignored or dismissed. Strange.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Golden Gate

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

He's supposed to be your friend. Some friend, but that's between the two of you. The greater issue is the board claim that we should all be sensitive about offending our diversity of members is what I'm addressing. We're not supposed to say that Israel is a terrorist nation, but the constant questioning of Muslims only on the board as to whether their loyalties are with terrorists (read Muslims) or with Israelis (read always the victims) belies claims of participant equity and assumes that only one point of view has any validity that merits expression.

Every other subject on this board has at least two sides, vigorously advocated. This subject is allowed only one, and it wasn't always like that. Standing up for diversity of opinion is as important as dawah. There can be no dawah, no justice, if one side is always the accused.

Go back and read about THE CALUMNY and tell me what it's like to be dumped upon. The Askenazi community came up through a system that demonized anything remotely Oriental, the Sephardic community did not. Hence, the difference. Should I not try to understand Scandal's fears? Should I curse Lord Balfour up and down so that even the Heavens themselves have a surfeit of it? I have stated that I gave up trying to figure why things happen in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter. I have thoughts and ideas but HE only knows. I'd rather have HIS justice than any man-made imitation of it.

I agree. I was starting to get paranoid. The feeling is like you are getting lobbed, but then when you respond, it is just ignored or dismissed. Strange.

Many close their eyes as they turned away from HIM on Sinai.

[scandal 951]

"infectious tumor and this regime full of rascality". Nice. I've been called all sorts of things, but never an infectious tumor.

Ladida, just another day in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Anyone who thinks Israel doesn't face existential threats in the region isn't paying attention.

Ahmadinejad: Iran is determined to eradicate Israel

Iranian president says those who are for humanity should also be for eradicating Israel, since the 'Zionist regime is a symbol of suppression and discrimination.'

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that Iran was determined to eradicate Israel, ISNA news agency reported Thursday.

"Iran believes that whoever is for humanity should also be for eradicating the Zionist regime (Israel) as symbol of suppression and discrimination," Ahmadinejad said in an interview with a Lebanese television network, carried by ISNA.

Ahmadinejad, Iran - AP - 20.7.11

"Iran follows this issue (the eradication of Israel) with determination and decisiveness and will never ever withdraw from this standpoint and policy," the Iranian president added in the interview with the Al-Manar network.

The remarks by Ahmadinejad came one day before the annual anti-Israeli rallies named Qods (Jerusalem) Day, which are held nationwide in Iran on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan.

Ahmadinejad on Monday said that Iranians and Muslim nations worldwide should hold Qods rallies and show their willingness to dispose of this "infectious tumor and this regime full of rascality."

The Iranian president provoked international condemnation in 2005 when he said that Israel should be eliminated from the map of the Middle East and transferred to Europe or North America.

[scandal 951]

The Askenazi community came up through a system that demonized anything remotely Oriental, the Sephardic community did not. Hence, the difference. Should I not try to understand Scandal's fears?

I don't understand what that means.

For what it's worth, I have Ashkenazi heritage, but we have plenty of Sefardim in the family. My brother married a lovely Moroccan girl and they have 2 wonderful "mixed" kids. The divide was relevant back in the 50s and 60s, it's really not a divide any longer.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You have posted some wonderful and powerful information, GG; believe me, it hasn't gone unnoticed. It's been ignored, yes, because it's so powerful they can't refute it. The tactic is to make unsubstantiated claims that they refuse to support, divert attention away from anything that doesn't support their view. They divert, purposefully misinterpret, and, when desperate, tell everyone what you Really think, and Muslims only think of doing bad things, right? Let's get some +1s for that last idea.

I agree. I was starting to get paranoid. The feeling is like you are getting lobbed, but then when you respond, it is just ignored or dismissed. Strange.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Threats aside, Muslims have been the actual victims of terrorism than any other group, Israelis included.

"infectious tumor and this regime full of rascality". Nice. I've been called all sorts of things, but never an infectious tumor.

Ladida, just another day in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Anyone who thinks Israel doesn't face existential threats in the region isn't paying attention.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Go back and read about THE CALUMNY and tell me what it's like to be dumped upon. The Askenazi community came up through a system that demonized anything remotely Oriental, the Sephardic community did not. Hence, the difference. Should I not try to understand Scandal's fears? Should I curse Lord Balfour up and down so that even the Heavens themselves have a surfeit of it? I have stated that I gave up trying to figure why things happen in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter. I have thoughts and ideas but HE only knows. I'd rather have HIS justice than any man-made imitation of it.

No one is blaming you. Our understanding is required by Him, but so is our justice.

O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you avoid justice; and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do. [Quran 4:135]

Granted, it doesn't make us the most popular folks around, but, it builds character and doesn't look bad on a spiritual resume.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Damned auto-correct. Post 23 should read:

Threats aside, Muslims have been the actual victims of terrorism more than any other group, Israelis included.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I don't understand what that means.

For what it's worth, I have Ashkenazi heritage, but we have plenty of Sefardim in the family. My brother married a lovely Moroccan girl and they have 2 wonderful "mixed" kids. The divide was relevant back in the 50s and 60s, it's really not a divide any longer.

Things are getting better but there is still a long, long way to go. My friends are mostly Sephardic, all of them have lived in Israel or have relatives who have lived in Israel, but my family roots are Ashkenazi. In the Western World there was and still is an antediluvian fear and distrust of anything Arab or Arabesque. Of course, anti-Semitism in Medieval Times is well-known. There was a re-evocation of that in the 19th Century especially in light of the expansion of the various Imperial powers and increased interaction with the Arab World. That poisoning of minds, that anti-Arab mentality was, naturally, incorporated into many of the beliefs of the Ashkenazim who ended up in Israel after WWI and more so in those who arrived after the atrocities of WWII. As newer generations have grown up, there is a greater understanding and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

"infectious tumor and this regime full of rascality". Nice. I've been called all sorts of things, but never an infectious tumor.

Ladida, just another day in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Anyone who thinks Israel doesn't face existential threats in the region isn't paying attention.

Not quite, we are turning down the rhetoric, which is ALL that it is. You have family over there so you're concerned maybe scared, I understand. Nothing has changed since this article was written and nothing EVER will. Unpopular Iranian leader makes noise so people don't question his domestic policy. Bibi does the same. Big Wow! Just went through eight years of that in the US.

Israeli Government: Iran Not A Threat

The AIPAC crowd is going to have a hard time with this. Israel's uber-hawk Defense Minister (and the most highly decorated soldier in its history), Ehud Barak, says that an Iranian nuclear weapon would not pose an existential threat to Israel. Today's New York Times reports that Barak told Israel's largest paper Yedioth Ahronoth that "Iran does not constitute an existential threat against Israel." Asked specifically about a nuclear armed Iran, Barak said, "I am not among those who believe Iran is an existential issue for Israel."

Barak concluded: "Israel is strong, I don't see anyone who could pose an existential threat,"

The threat, of course, is not to Israel's existence but to Israel's status as the region's only superpower, able to do whatever it wants whenever it wants to.

But don't expect this to mean that the "Bomb Iran" crowd here -- which is the lobby and its cutouts -- is going to shut up.

Contrary to what many believe, the lobby does not always follow the Israel line.

That is why Prime Minister Rabin tried so hard (unsuccessfully) to curb AIPAC. Upon his election as prime minister in 1992, he met with its leadership to tell AIPAC to butt the hell out. He intended to come to terms with the Palestinians and did not want AIPAC to get in his way. He also insisted on dealing with the US government directly and not through a surly intermediary. (His top aides specifically told AIPAC to fire Steve Rosen who, he knew, would use his dark powers to kill any Israeli-Palestinian agreement).

AIPAC ignored Rabin and continued its sabotage efforts.

In fact, a few years ago the Israeli government worked with the Palestinian Authority to devise an aid package for the Palestinian Authority that would help it withstand the threat from Hamas. This was before Hamas took over Gaza and the package was designed to gird the PA against the threat.

The Bush administration supported the package and thought it was urgent to keep Gaza under PA (not Hamas) control.

AIPAC, on the other hand, did not like the idea and its lobbyists went directly to the House Appropriations Commitee and demanded it be cut in half. The Israelis also went to the Hill to tell the same appropriators that Israel's own security needs dictated that the full package be delivered quickly to check Hamas. Of course AIPAC prevailed. And AIPAC celebrated that it could beat the White House, the Palestinian Authority and even the Israeli government. Kings of the Hill!

Only to a degree does the lobby operate in support of Israel. Mostly it is about preserving and extending its own power.

The Iran issue is its latest ticket. It will use it to raise money -- it just built an eight story building in Washington complete with a gym and catering facilities -- and, best of all, to make the United States government do what it wants.

As someone who worked at AIPAC for four years (before I came to my senses), I can personally attest to the fact that the organization is most decidely not about Israel. It is about AIPAC.

I wonder if Barak will back down after AIPAC calls to chew him out. Regardless, Barak's statement is now on the record.

Iran is not an existential threat to Israel. But the lobby might be.

My link

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

No one is blaming you. Our understanding is required by Him, but so is our justice.

O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you avoid justice; and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do. [Quran 4:135]

Granted, it doesn't make us the most popular folks around, but, it builds character and doesn't look bad on a spiritual resume.

HIS JUSTICE is the only justice. Speaking out against the madness is fine, calling someone a tumor is a bit much. Love of HIM more than resume padding, is appropriate, especially now.

These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped. [2:86]

Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us. [21:43]

Nay, We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win? [21:44]

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Sof did you take a monitor hit from your comments in the now locked related thread? If so that sucks.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sof did you take a monitor hit from your comments in the now locked related thread? If so that sucks.

No, but thanks for asking, bro. To be fair, I know Kathryn tries hard to be even, but she can't do it all. I know that moderating is a thankless job; I moderate on a few other sites, and have for more than a decade.

What we have here re this subject, IMO, are attempts to use mods to shut down members that express opinions not favored by those few who want no expressed opposition to Israel. Rational argument is being replaced by bullying tactics, and calling on mods to do your dirty work is preferable to doing it yourself, like no one would notice.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Sofiyya