sex before marrying ?

[isleta521 5]

I believe in waiting until after marriage, that was I have done myself and that is what I advocate. It is also part of Islamic teachings. Not everyone is from the US consumer society where most things are readily available to satisfy our need for instant gratification, only to be discarded for the next cool thing. The divorce rate in the US is 50%, appalling because, despite lips service to the contrary, there is little value to love, sex or marriage. This is also reflected in the common venacular and casual attitude toward pre-marital sex.

Not everyone who has premarital sex does it for "instant gratification" or because we are from the US consumer society. Some of us do it because we think it's healthy and normal.

There is a source for the belief that premarital sex is healthy and normal. Since that source is not faith, it is hedonism, a need to satisfy one's individual desires. Hedonism is a major element of the secular, consumer paradigm. Nothing, including sexual attitudes, is formed in a vacuum.

Then enjoy the vacuum. A little sucking never hurt either .

Different strokes for diff folks. If you want to wait then wait and enjoy after you are joined in matrimony. If you want to go for it then go for it. Its your lives and no ones elses to pass judgment.

[mrsushi66 0]

I believe in waiting until after marriage, that was I have done myself and that is what I advocate. It is also part of Islamic teachings. Not everyone is from the US consumer society where most things are readily available to satisfy our need for instant gratification, only to be discarded for the next cool thing. The divorce rate in the US is 50%, appalling because, despite lips service to the contrary, there is little value to love, sex or marriage. This is also reflected in the common venacular and casual attitude toward pre-marital sex.

Not everyone who has premarital sex does it for "instant gratification" or because we are from the US consumer society. Some of us do it because we think it's healthy and normal.

There is a source for the belief that premarital sex is healthy and normal. Since that source is not faith, it is hedonism, a need to satisfy one's individual desires. Hedonism is a major element of the secular, consumer paradigm. Nothing, including sexual attitudes, is formed in a vacuum.

When you post a response that "Appears" to set you in the supperior position while passing judgement on others beliefs that is where most misunderstandings and for lack of a better term dislike comes into play. This does not apply to just you but others who have come to state their religious beliefs from such a point of rightiousness.

No ones religion is right for anyone but the person who practices that religion, too try and convince that your values apply to me or that I am lesser because I view something different than you is going to invite rather emotional responses but if that is what you are looking for good luck.

Hope you understand what I am trying to point out.

[Alex+R 0]

I believe in waiting until after marriage, that was I have done myself and that is what I advocate. It is also part of Islamic teachings. Not everyone is from the US consumer society where most things are readily available to satisfy our need for instant gratification, only to be discarded for the next cool thing. The divorce rate in the US is 50%, appalling because, despite lips service to the contrary, there is little value to love, sex or marriage. This is also reflected in the common venacular and casual attitude toward pre-marital sex.

Not everyone who has premarital sex does it for "instant gratification" or because we are from the US consumer society. Some of us do it because we think it's healthy and normal.

But culture does affect the way you think about it. It is not normal to a lot of people around the world to have pre-marital sex. For them it is normal to wait. So you can't say that those who wait are abnormal. But I do know in the US and many western countries, it is considered normal to have sex before marriage. But I chose not to do it.

Culture does affect the way you think about it, that's very true. But your culture tells you how to control your basic biological urge. No culture can ERASE the basic biological urge. Many cultures make it normal to wait to have sex, but that doesn't make it natural. My understanding of most religions, though, is that they are designed to help people not behave according to human nature.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hm, so you call it 'hedonism.' I always just called it.... "human biology."

See, thats' normal in the paradigm you're supporting, Alex. Ancient socieites had human biology, too, and they acted on it without hesitation, or conscious. It is our higher selves that are attracted to discipline and commitment, our lesser selves that spurn it. Religion was sent to guide us away from our basest instincts so that we could form societies that allow us to order our lives with discipline rather than desire. That is what separates us from less evolved life forms, and nothing to take lightly.

[chri'stina 190]

....

Different strokes for diff folks. If you want to wait then wait and enjoy after you are joined in matrimony. If you want to go for it then go for it. Its your lives and no ones elses to pass judgment.

I agree we all have to make our decision about it.

I also do not like seeing judgment passed on people who waited as if they are pathetic or something, which sometimes seems to be implied when this topic comes up. It is especially implied towards men, if they waited.

Edited December 29, 2006 by stina&suj

[Alex+R 0]

....

Different strokes for diff folks. If you want to wait then wait and enjoy after you are joined in matrimony. If you want to go for it then go for it. Its your lives and no ones elses to pass judgment.

I agree we all have to make our decision about it.

I also do not like seeing judgment passed on people who waited as if they are pathetic or something, which sometimes seems to be implied when this topic comes up.

Oh yeah, PS I am not implying that! I respect waiting for whatever reason, although I know it's definitely not for me. You avoid a lot of dangers that way, too.

[chri'stina 190]

....

Different strokes for diff folks. If you want to wait then wait and enjoy after you are joined in matrimony. If you want to go for it then go for it. Its your lives and no ones elses to pass judgment.

I agree we all have to make our decision about it.

I also do not like seeing judgment passed on people who waited as if they are pathetic or something, which sometimes seems to be implied when this topic comes up.

Oh yeah, PS I am not implying that! I respect waiting for whatever reason, although I know it's definitely not for me. You avoid a lot of dangers that way, too.

You didn't imply that, I know. I was thinking more of earlier posts in this thread, with jokes about the guy because he said he wanted to wait. The comments like 'you better go practice', etc.

[Marilyn. 340]

Most people control their biological urge somewhat... if we didn't, we would go around having sex with anybody and everything at any time...

not sure if that makes sense..

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I believe in waiting until after marriage, that was I have done myself and that is what I advocate. It is also part of Islamic teachings. Not everyone is from the US consumer society where most things are readily available to satisfy our need for instant gratification, only to be discarded for the next cool thing. The divorce rate in the US is 50%, appalling because, despite lips service to the contrary, there is little value to love, sex or marriage. This is also reflected in the common venacular and casual attitude toward pre-marital sex.

Not everyone who has premarital sex does it for "instant gratification" or because we are from the US consumer society. Some of us do it because we think it's healthy and normal.

There is a source for the belief that premarital sex is healthy and normal. Since that source is not faith, it is hedonism, a need to satisfy one's individual desires. Hedonism is a major element of the secular, consumer paradigm. Nothing, including sexual attitudes, is formed in a vacuum.

When you post a response that "Appears" to set you in the supperior position while passing judgement on others beliefs that is where most misunderstandings and for lack of a better term dislike comes into play. This does not apply to just you but others who have come to state their religious beliefs from such a point of rightiousness.

No ones religion is right for anyone but the person who practices that religion, too try and convince that your values apply to me or that I am lesser because I view something different than you is going to invite rather emotional responses but if that is what you are looking for good luck.

Hope you understand what I am trying to point out.

I was expecting this defensive type of response, it is so predictable when discussing this subject in a mixed group. I'm always amazed how religious proponents are seen as provacative while the "if it feels good, do it" crowd is viewed as non-judgmental. But, it never fails to produce such a response, as if there is only room for one inoffensive perspective which cannot be the religious one.

....

Different strokes for diff folks. If you want to wait then wait and enjoy after you are joined in matrimony. If you want to go for it then go for it. Its your lives and no ones elses to pass judgment.

I agree we all have to make our decision about it.

I also do not like seeing judgment passed on people who waited as if they are pathetic or something, which sometimes seems to be implied when this topic comes up.

Yes, it does.

[Alex+R 0]

Hm, so you call it 'hedonism.' I always just called it.... "human biology."

See, thats' normal in the paradigm you're supporting, Alex. Ancient socieites had human biology, too, and they acted on it without hesitation, or conscious. It is our higher selves that are attracted to discipline and commitment, our lesser selves that spurn it. Religion was sent to guide us away from our basest instincts so that we could form societies that allow us to order our lives with discipline rather than desire. That is what separates us from less evolved life forms, and nothing to take lightly.

All right. I respect your right not to have sex before marriage, but you've insinuated more than once now that it makes you superior or comes from a superior place. Can't say I'm OK with that. We're not going to agree based on your idea of the purpose of religion; for example, it is my opinion that more evolved life forms than we are would probably not have or need religion at all.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hm, so you call it 'hedonism.' I always just called it.... "human biology."

See, thats' normal in the paradigm you're supporting, Alex. Ancient socieites had human biology, too, and they acted on it without hesitation, or conscious. It is our higher selves that are attracted to discipline and commitment, our lesser selves that spurn it. Religion was sent to guide us away from our basest instincts so that we could form societies that allow us to order our lives with discipline rather than desire. That is what separates us from less evolved life forms, and nothing to take lightly.

All right. I respect your right not to have sex before marriage, but you've insinuated more than once now that it makes you superior or comes from a superior place. Can't say I'm OK with that. We're not going to agree based on your idea of the purpose of religion; for example, it is my opinion that more evolved life forms than we are would probably not have or need religion at all.

What is superior about acting on your impulses?

[Alex+R 0]

Hm, so you call it 'hedonism.' I always just called it.... "human biology."

See, thats' normal in the paradigm you're supporting, Alex. Ancient socieites had human biology, too, and they acted on it without hesitation, or conscious. It is our higher selves that are attracted to discipline and commitment, our lesser selves that spurn it. Religion was sent to guide us away from our basest instincts so that we could form societies that allow us to order our lives with discipline rather than desire. That is what separates us from less evolved life forms, and nothing to take lightly.

All right. I respect your right not to have sex before marriage, but you've insinuated more than once now that it makes you superior or comes from a superior place. Can't say I'm OK with that. We're not going to agree based on your idea of the purpose of religion; for example, it is my opinion that more evolved life forms than we are would probably not have or need religion at all.

What is superior about acting on your impulses?

1. I don't think any position is superior. I just resent you claiming your position is.

2. I wouldn't advocate humping strangers' legs, obviously. People should make informed sexual decisions, especially considering the number of STDs you can get even using a condom.

3. People can make those informed decisions and have a code of ethics without the framework of religion. Life is not a choice between being a Muslim or running around naked pounding your chest.

[mrsushi66 0]

You wrote

______

I was expecting this defensive type of response, it is so predictable when discussing this subject in a mixed group. I'm always amazed how religious proponents are seen as provacative while the "if it feels good, do it" crowd is viewed as non-judgmental. But, it never fails to produce such a response, as if there is only room for one inoffensive perspective which cannot be the religious one.

Wow sounds like your the one being a bit defensive. The "if it feels good, do it" crowd as you refered to them (at least from what I read) offered their advice on what they believe. You on the other hand offered your advice on what you believe and then started making sweeping broad generalizations to market your beliefs as the only right path. I have never been one for instant gratification and I have been in this country all of my life, I do not discard something looking for the next coolest thing. Most of the people I know are similar to me with respect to your sweeping generalizations.

[garya505 2]

No, I didn't say it was safe, only that it is done illegally (and unsafely) in the Philippines. And Cytotec is a very dangerous drug when used to induce abortions, but people still use it there.

It's used all over the world and FDA approved.

It's a drug used for treating stomach ulcers. It's used in poor countries to induce abortions. It can cause a ruptured uterus and severe birth defects in the baby if unsuccessful at inducing the abortion. It is NOT approved by the FDA for this purpose, or as far as I know approved in any other country for that purpose.

[riblet 0]

It is easy to make an argument if you compare waiting for marriage to people who are randomly sleeping around... but to argue that someone in a committed relationship is merely acting on impulse and that without religion we would be nothing more than a manifestation of our basest instincts is going overboard. But I doubt that anyone is going to change their mind based on this discussion anyway