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Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Spain
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Posted

no human being is 'illegal'.

"illegal" is just the label these people have been given so the majority of americans know who to hate. just as long as america isn't pissed at the puppet masters.

when it comes to human beings that were brought over by their parents - without consent - full amnesty. nothing less. if you want countless human beings, who have done nothing wrong but live their lives, uprooted and dumped in a country where they have nothing - then i hope karma brings you everything in life you deserve.

and amnesty for these human beings does not have to ENCOURAGE more people to bring their families here without permission, it can be something that concerns the current population and we can move on from there with better border control.

It is a finite population of people you are talking about- those already here.

DREAM will only pass if appropriate clamps on future illegal border crossing are set in place. Then those that can earn their place here as positive contributors can be given that chance. Its something quite negotiable, far away from the vitriol we see on both sides of the argument.

Posted

no human being is 'illegal'.

"illegal" is just the label these people have been given so the majority of americans know who to hate. just as long as america isn't pissed at the puppet masters.

when it comes to human beings that were brought over by their parents - without consent - full amnesty. nothing less. if you want countless human beings, who have done nothing wrong but live their lives, uprooted and dumped in a country where they have nothing - then i hope karma brings you everything in life you deserve.

and amnesty for these human beings does not have to ENCOURAGE more people to bring their families here without permission, it can be something that concerns the current population and we can move on from there with better border control.

It must be tough being the only one that gives a dam.

Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Canada
Timeline
Posted

no human being is 'illegal'.

"illegal" is just the label these people have been given so the majority of americans know who to hate. just as long as america isn't pissed at the puppet masters.

when it comes to human beings that were brought over by their parents - without consent - full amnesty. nothing less. if you want countless human beings, who have done nothing wrong but live their lives, uprooted and dumped in a country where they have nothing - then i hope karma brings you everything in life you deserve.

and amnesty for these human beings does not have to ENCOURAGE more people to bring their families here without permission, it can be something that concerns the current population and we can move on from there with better border control.

Yeah, that's what they said in the 80's.

Get a clue on illegal immigration. You give them amnesty now, they'll keep on coming.

Amnesty also is a slap in the face to every single person on this forum. Hell, on any forum like this and anyone else who does things the LEGAL way.

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Filed: Timeline
Posted (edited)
For unskilled labor, that is rarely ever the case. Look at many rural areas across this country and you'll see the numbers of potential employers have dwindled down to perhaps one or two large employers, like Walmart. For many unskilled labor, there is no true competition and therefore demand of labor has no bearing on wages. That's why collective bargaining is the only viable option for most workers.

If an employer needs 100 unskilled workers, will the negitiating position for potential workers be better if the market provides less than 100 such workers (forcing the employer to hire staff away from other businesses or attract people from other locations) or if there are 150 such workers readily available in that local market? I think the answer is obvious.

Edited by Mr. Big Dog
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Spain
Timeline
Posted

You misinterpret what I was saying. I think we can agree that in all sectors of the economy where illegal labor is providing a significant portion of the workforce, there are businesses that do not tap into this pool but satisfy their labor needs from legal sources. If those businesses can survive in these sectors then I would argue that every business in that sector can survivie without illegal labor. You would level the playing field between businesses that employ those eligible for employment and those that exploit illegal labor. The latter would possibly have a slimmer bottom line or would not be able to make it because they're poorly run. In case of the latter, they'd go out of business and their market share would be picked up by those businesses that operate according to the law. That would be a positive outcome for the economy any way you slice it. I'm not talking about shutting down entire sectors of the economy as you apparently think. I'm talking about promoting legal businesses.

In your opinion, what sectors are illegals currently a significant portion of the labor force? Just curious. Obviously I'd say agri and food production... food service... other service sectors... I don't see many, I think, much higher than that.

Filed: Other Country: Israel
Timeline
Posted

Deporting the bad and letting the good stay.

Even the title of this thread, based on the intent of the policy, is absurd. How do you have good law breakers vs. bad law breakers? Do we have good employers who intentionally hire illegals vs. bad employers who intentionally hire illegals? Or, does this policy make them all good unless the majority they hire are "bad" illegals?

What forms of good law breaking can Americans take advantage of?

Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Spain
Timeline
Posted

Yeah, that's what they said in the 80's.

Get a clue on illegal immigration. You give them amnesty now, they'll keep on coming.

Amnesty also is a slap in the face to every single person on this forum. Hell, on any forum like this and anyone else who does things the LEGAL way.

Little babies and other self-made children will definitely keep on coming, as those as the ones this poster is referring to in her 'full amnesty' writing...

Posted

In your opinion, what sectors are illegals currently a significant portion of the labor force? Just curious. Obviously I'd say agri and food production... food service... other service sectors... I don't see many, I think, much higher than that.

construction

Posted

If you are here by any other means other than legal means, you are illegal. If we give full amnesty we are saying; "Hey it's ok to break US laws, come here illegally and have some anchor babies because were idiots and we want you to flood this country illegally".

i'm sorry. what is an anchor baby? last time i checked - having a child in the united states does not give you an 'anchor' for citizenship.

no, you are viewing immigration as black and white. we have to adjust the laws to address the GREY areas of immigration. that's why immigration reform is at a standstill.

and it would be we're idiots..(as i type in all lowercase).

Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Spain
Timeline
Posted

Deporting the bad and letting the good stay.

Even the title of this thread, based on the intent of the policy, is absurd. How do you have good law breakers vs. bad law breakers? Do we have good employers who intentionally hire illegals vs. bad employers who intentionally hire illegals? Or, does this policy make them all good unless the majority they hire are "bad" illegals?

What forms of good law breaking can Americans take advantage of?

I can understand your point. The immigration laws likely to be focused on are statutes, as has been described in the past. Bad = major crime, hurtful ID theft (with a legal, living victim), etc. Good = everything under the table, yet still manage to seek personal improvement through education... not nearly always on taxpayer dime as you previously claim. This is the dichotomy defined in DREAM-type legislation and should be honestly discussed to point out the good and the bad within.

construction

Thanks, that's another one.

Posted (edited)

Deporting the bad and letting the good stay.

Even the title of this thread, based on the intent of the policy, is absurd. How do you have good law breakers vs. bad law breakers? Do we have good employers who intentionally hire illegals vs. bad employers who intentionally hire illegals? Or, does this policy make them all good unless the majority they hire are "bad" illegals?

What forms of good law breaking can Americans take advantage of?

People trying to feed their family vs those who rob, steal and mooch off the system. You knew that though and I agree, to blow past the fact that they are breaking the law to begin with is BS.

Edited by _Simpson_
Filed: Timeline
Posted
and amnesty for these human beings does not have to ENCOURAGE more people to bring their families here without permission, it can be something that concerns the current population and we can move on from there with better border control.

We've been down this road several times before and amnesty has always done one thing: ENCOURAGE more people to come. And then we'd be having this debate again 10, 15, 20 years down the road when trying to figure out what to do with the next batch of then 20 million people that are here illegally. That's the ugly truth here.

I am not in favor of kicking young people that have been brought here as minors and are pursuing their edcutation. But before there can be any consideration whatsoever of legalizing their status, there must be strict and effective enforecement of employment eligibility across the board. Any business that employs people not eligible for employment ought to be taxed $1MM per unlawful employee and repeat offenders ought to be sent up the river. Once that is in place, there will be no market for migrants ineligible to work here and hence, there will be no illegal migrants. Then I would be ready to say to those that are here, pay your back taxes, do service to the country, get in line and apply for lawful status.

Posted

We've been down this road several times before and amnesty has always done one thing: ENCOURAGE more people to come. And then we'd be having this debate again 10, 15, 20 years down the road when trying to figure out what to do with the next batch of then 20 million people that are here illegally. That's the ugly truth here.

I am not in favor of kicking young people that have been brought here as minors and are pursuing their edcutation. But before there can be any consideration whatsoever of legalizing their status, there must be strict and effective enforecement of employment eligibility across the board. Any business that employs people not eligible for employment ought to be taxed $1MM per unlawful employee and repeat offenders ought to be sent up the river. Once that is in place, there will be no market for migrants ineligible to work here and hence, there will be no illegal migrants. Then I would be ready to say to those that are here, pay your back taxes, do service to the country, get in line and apply for lawful status.

:thumbs:

Filed: Other Country: Israel
Timeline
Posted (edited)

i'm sorry. what is an anchor baby? last time i checked - having a child in the united states does not give you an 'anchor' for citizenship.

no, you are viewing immigration as black and white. we have to adjust the laws to address the GREY areas of immigration. that's why immigration reform is at a standstill.

and it would be we're idiots..(as i type in all lowercase).

There were no grey areas of the law until bleeding hearts like you entered the discourse. The law says "Enter Legally, and here is how you do it". There's no need to reform that. Most people on this forum did it. Why a need for reform when legal immigration under the existing law was understandable and doable to us pretty normal folks?

Edited by Sofiyya
Posted

Wow!!! I cannot believe the BS I am seeing in this thread. Saying we should let the "Good" illegals stay is like saying that if someone broke into my home and was not hurting anyone, that I should let them stay. I'm sorry but they came into this country with a premeditated decision to bypass US Immigration laws. That makes them a criminal.

Also children who are not born to a US Citizen, should not have that priveledge granted to them just because of the location they were born. There was a time for this law, but that was over 100 years ago and no longer serves the purpose it was designed for.

Now I do feel that Amnesty should be granted to those who came across as children without any say in the matter and grew up in America. These children's ties are generally to their immediate family and friends they have known their entire life and not to a country they have never known.

 
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