Deporting the bad and letting the good stay

[one...two...tree 2,762]

controlled immigrations versus uncontrolled.

It's never a choice of extremes, except in the minds of extremists.

[Zero Sum 305]

That's not practical nor logical. We need immigration reform that makes it easier for unskilled labor to be imported here, just like the way we allow for companies to outsource jobs overseas. Our current system is always chasing the bottom line and cheap labor is a critical element. The bigger question is how to make it sustainable and IMO, that has to come from trade agreements that are fair, as well as tariffs on imports. Right now, the only real winners in this chase to the bottom are the corporations and they're laughing their arses off while we squabble over the crumbs they leave behind.

In all pragmatism, some will stay anyway, with the blessing of Uncle Sam- all the while the noose is tightened on those that need to be booted out. My feeling is once all the hysteria has passed (if possible), the more positive contributors to the national economy will be facilitated into the green card pipeline at some point, without a real impact on those that are already doing as much.

But indeed, the only winners so far are the profiteers that are being ironically supported in principle as a function of the free market by the same people that are frothing at the mouth that they have implemented a 'slave labor' system without actually noticing their Catch-22. The common denominator is clear. You know what it is.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That's not practical nor logical. We need immigration reform that makes it easier for unskilled labor to be imported here, just like the way we allow for companies to outsource jobs overseas. Our current system is always chasing the bottom line and cheap labor is a critical element. The bigger question is how to make it sustainable and IMO, that has to come from trade agreements that are fair, as well as tariffs on imports. Right now, the only real winners in this chase to the bottom are the corporations and they're laughing their arses off while we squabble over the crumbs they leave behind.

There is more unskilled labor wanting in than there is demand for it.

The temporary workers that are allowed in legally have trouble finding work sometimes as it is. We don't need to add on top of that.

[Zero Sum 305]

Bad day? No. I've said the same things about illegals for years. Way before the economy crashed. I've said 10x worse on these boards as well about what should happen to illegals crossing into this country illegally.

Imagine had those 30 million+ that you are talking about actually stood up to the problems facing their own country. Strength in numbers, right? No. They'd rather come live off the backs of people here. What they do is criminal. Nothing more and nothing less. They are breaking the law. We should not continue to encourage such behavior.

More generalization, but I'll give you points for bringing up the encouragement of democracy and fairness at home- wherever those countries may be. I am sure you can see the advantage in encouraging this kind of behavior by perhaps advocating for such government foreign policy here such that you see less illegals stealing your bodily fluids.

[Used to be broken 147]

you have got to be joking right?

'good' illegals? Look at what you're saying: illegal = criminal.

This amnesty bullshit has seriously got to stop. Screw the "dream" act and all the other horse manure. These "good" illegals have cost cities, counties, and states hundreds of millions of dollars over the years and you want to call them, "good?"

Everyone wants to blame 'high healthcare costs' on those that don't pay. Well guess how many 'illegal' babies were born at certain hospitals. HALF of the babies born in certain hospitals were from 'illegals'

Deport them all. Get rid of them all. Get rid of the ridiculous nature of 'born here, automatic citizen.'

The 'right' thing to do would be to kick their #### out and if they come back incarcerate them for a decade eating slop.

There is a little thing called the principle of justice in America and a punishment that fits the crime. Dream Act Kids by and large did not come here of thier own volition they should not be punished by the act of thier parents.

You sound like a Big Government Republican, ready to pull out the checkbook and build more prisons, hire more TSA and ICE and on and on ad-nauseum. So we take some folks who cost us virtually nothing working in minimum wage jobs and put them in Jail and pay the prison guards $7.00 an hour to watch them. Brilliant , nothing is produced and that giant sucking sound is money draining from our wallets. And at a time of all time high unemployement and fiscal crisis you want to vacate millions of apartments leaving landlords holding the bag?

As for costing states and municipalities millions... if I set up a hot dog stand and put a sign up that says "free hot dogs" should it really piss me off that people show up and take me up on the offer?

Since you will never stop migration from South America and Mexico any more than you will stop it raining or snowing it makes sense to do things in the most practical way possible. If an alien has significant equities like a US Citizen Wife and US Citizen children how does it benefit the US to make the US Citizen suffer or move outside the country?

Not going after non-criminal aliens with US Citizen ties is Humane and sensible Immigration Policy.

[Ready to do it 101]

When I posted this I was really interested in seeing what people's reactions were that something like this was just passed out of blue today. I had heard nothing about the works of something like this occurring. I assumed it would be slapped on at the bottom of some bill to get passed through Congress etc and there would never come a day when we would actually see progress or steps taken in the right direction.

I do think that this is definitely a step in the right direction. I.e. Ramp up the deportations on the "criminal" illegals and offer the good illegals a means to work... which will lead to more tax income etc. I think the big problem on the horizon is that all the states with the exception of three, have made it impossible for illegals to renew their driver's licenses and ID cards over the last few years. So obviously there will need to be some changes now that the federal government is going to allow illegals to work. If they can now work, how are they going to get there, etc? The states need to change back the rules on getting driver's licences etc, to the way it was before for the system to work.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

There is a little thing called the principle of justice in America and a punishment that fits the crime. Dream Act Kids by and large did not come here of thier own volition they should not be punished by the act of thier parents.

You sound like a Big Government Republican, ready to pull out the checkbook and build more prisons, hire more TSA and ICE and on and on ad-nauseum. So we take some folks who cost us virtually nothing working in minimum wage jobs and put them in Jail and pay the prison guards $7.00 an hour to watch them. Brilliant , nothing is produced and that giant sucking sound is money draining from our wallets. And at a time of all time high unemployement and fiscal crisis you want to vacate millions of apartments leaving landlords holding the bag?

As for costing states and municipalities millions... if I set up a hot dog stand and put a sign up that says "free hot dogs" should it really piss me off that people show up and take me up on the offer?

Since you will never stop migration from South America and Mexico any more than you will stop it raining or snowing it makes sense to do things in the most practical way possible. If an alien has significant equities like a US Citizen Wife and US Citizen children how does it benefit the US to make the US Citizen suffer or move outside the country?

Not going after non-criminal aliens with US Citizen ties is Humane and sensible Immigration Policy.

The moment you enter this country illegally, you are a "criminal-alient." That's the point you are missing here.

If you'd pay attention, you'd also realize that the DREAM Act encourages illegal immigration as well.

Nothing is "Free" here. It's no where near 'free.' It's Government forced help to those who 'might' need it. However the truth is, you don't need a hospital to have a baby.

The 'children' should absolutely be punished for the wrong doings of the parents in this case. It sends a strong, clear cut message that we will not tolerate our borders being violated.

You mention the TSA and if you read my other post on here, you'd see I use that exact example. We'll practically rape Americans in line at the airport, yet we'll let all sorts of trash walk freely into this country. It's bullshit.

When I posted this I was really interested in seeing what people's reactions were that something like this was just passed out of blue today. I had heard nothing about the works of something like this occurring. I assumed it would be slapped on at the bottom of some bill to get passed through Congress etc and there would never come a day when we would actually see progress or steps taken in the right direction.

I do think that this is definitely a step in the right direction. I.e. Ramp up the deportations on the "criminal" illegals and offer the good illegals a means to work... which will lead to more tax income etc. I think the big problem on the horizon is that all the states with the exception of three, have made it impossible for illegals to renew their driver's licenses and ID cards over the last few years. So obviously there will need to be some changes now that the federal government is going to allow illegals to work. If they can now work, how are they going to get there, etc? The states need to change back the rules on getting driver's licences etc, to the way it was before for the system to work.

It's a step in the right direction for the administration to bypass congress in the way they treat immigration law? Hardly. If anything it's criminal on its face as well. That's a whole other debate however.

[mawilson 2,133]

you are a "criminal-alient." That's the point you are missing here.

Criminal-alient? Criminal element from the Orient?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Criminal-alient? Criminal element from the Orient?

exactly.

[Zero Sum 305]

Can the Federal Government experts state under what of the three branches of government does immigration enforcement fall under?

[mawilson 2,133]

Can the Federal Government experts state under what of the three branches of government does immigration enforcement fall under?

The bureaucratic branch of the government.

[Zero Sum 305]

The bureaucratic branch of the government.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

There is more unskilled labor wanting in than there is demand for it.

The temporary workers that are allowed in legally have trouble finding work sometimes as it is. We don't need to add on top of that.

Can you substantiate that claim? Ask farmers if they are turning away applicants for migrant jobs. We have high unemployment right now in this country from a combination of a stagnant economy and from the shrinking of government jobs. Most of those jobs were skilled labor. A Free Market Capitalist would look at labor as part of the whole economic machine and putting much of any restrictions on sources of labor goes against the principles of a Free Market. But if you're not going to really adhere to a truly Free Market, you'd be better off focusing regulating how labor is used rather than its source.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Can the Federal Government experts state under what of the three branches of government does immigration enforcement fall under?

The job of ICE is to enforce immigration and customs laws.

While the President (with senate confirmation) may pick directors of ICE/DHS, they are there to uphold the laws enacted by congress and enforce them.

It is not their job to pick and choose 'who' to enforce the law upon. It's their job to uphold the law. The President, nor DHS can change policy at will on who is and who is not to be processed in accordance with the law. The only way that the President can stop someone from being deported in accordance with the law is a Presidential pardon. However a President doing this on a mass scale would receive severe backlash.

[Ready to do it 101]

You have a habit of comparing two totally separate issues. Ie. You don't like the way you are treated at airports and you don't like how aliens are free to walk across the borders. They are two completely different issues that you are arguing. One has nothing to do with the other.

So you think they are bypassing Congress is criminal. I think it's criminal that ANYONE gets free handouts. You think an alien's mere presence in the US makes him a criminal. I think the idea of someone being in a better place to provide for his family is genius, not criminal.

Bottom line, what we call "criminal" varies.

Have you ever been to an ICE detainee facility? I have. If you've never been, I don't recommend it. The real criminals in my opinion are the ICE agents, not the illegals they are holding. I was just simply appauled at the treatment of both the detainees and the visitors. If you want to talk about bottom of the barrel undeducated scum... look up the folks that work at the ICE facilities. It's a disgrace that these kind of folks are even employed. Again, treat others as you would like to be treated. I'm all for all the ICE agents that I met relinquishing their jobs, and well... No benefits for anyone!

The moment you enter this country illegally, you are a "criminal-alient." That's the point you are missing here.

If you'd pay attention, you'd also realize that the DREAM Act encourages illegal immigration as well.

Nothing is "Free" here. It's no where near 'free.' It's Government forced help to those who 'might' need it. However the truth is, you don't need a hospital to have a baby.

The 'children' should absolutely be punished for the wrong doings of the parents in this case. It sends a strong, clear cut message that we will not tolerate our borders being violated.

You mention the TSA and if you read my other post on here, you'd see I use that exact example. We'll practically rape Americans in line at the airport, yet we'll let all sorts of trash walk freely into this country. It's bullshit.

It's a step in the right direction for the administration to bypass congress in the way they treat immigration law? Hardly. If anything it's criminal on its face as well. That's a whole other debate however.