Could Farms Survive Without Illegal Labor?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If farmers lose access to some of the skilled workers who pick fruit, plant vegetables and care for crops, food prices will certainly rise. However, this will not be a basic supply-and-demand equation, in which farmers simply would need to offer higher wages to attract American workers to the fields. In fact, many farmers already advertise jobs — with competitive wages, housing and transportation — to U.S. citizens to no avail, as part of the required process for then legally hiring skilled foreign guest workers through the U.S. government’s H-2A program.

The reality is that right now there are simply not enough trained and willing American agricultural workers to get these jobs done. By removing some of the current skilled but undocumented workers from the equation, food prices would rise not because worker pay would improve, but rather because jobs would go unfilled, apples would go unpicked and food would be in short supply.

If our lawmakers decide that American farmers should hire only American workers, then we as a country have a lot more work to do than just enforcing rules against illegal labor. We need to set a national priority to encourage a new generation of young farmers, and we must adjust our system of agriculture to make farms into places where Americans want to work.

On my vegetable farm, we overcome the odds and succeed in attracting young Americans who are enthusiastic about working in agriculture. The 10 people who plant, pick and weed with me put in long and strenuous days, motivated because they are gaining skills that will help them in their missions to steward their own land someday. Our farm attracts young people because we embrace innovations in farming. We follow the community-supported agriculture model, in which we grow a wide variety of vegetables, rather than picking one single crop all day, and then provide the harvest directly to our farm’s members, who have “subscribed” for the season. This direct-marketing strategy helps us to obtain a fair price for our produce, and to pay a fair wage. We use organic practices that ensure the safety of our workers, and our diversified approach attracts problem solvers and creative thinkers who are eager to engage in the challenge of managing a farm ecosystem, not a monoculture.

There is renewed interest among young people in farms like mine, but unfortunately the larger trend is an increase in the average age of the American farmer, currently 57 years old. To reverse this course, our country must take bold action to ensure that aspiring farmers have access to land, health care, capital, education and training. Congress should invest now in a farm bill that helps young Americans enter into and succeed in farming, and that creates incentives for diversified and sustainable agriculture. As we build a new generation of American farmers, we should also provide legal guest worker and citizenship opportunities for the skilled immigrant farm workers needed to grow our food right now, by passing legislation like the AgJOBS bill currently being considered by Congress.

My customers are proud to invest in my farm and to pay a fair price for food, because they share this vision for strong, sustainable agriculture in America. However, if food prices rise simply because Congress is pushing skilled undocumented workers off of farms, with no plan for the future, consumers are not likely to be so accepting.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/08/17/could-farms-survive-without-illegal-labor/we-need-a-new-generation-of-american-farmers

[Fandango 1,439]

I am willing to pay more for fruit a veg if it goes to a farm which ensures all workers are Americans, or are LPRs w/ work authorization....

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I am willing to pay more for fruit a veg if it goes to a farm which ensures all workers are Americans, or are LPRs w/ work authorization....

same here.

[Pooky 3,787]

My customers are proud to invest in my farm and to pay a fair price for food, because they share this vision for strong, sustainable agriculture in America.

Is the produce at a fair price, if the labor used is not in this country legally?

Or is the perception of a fair price tempered by the historical use of cheap, illegal labor?

[웃 910]

I am willing to pay more for fruit a veg if it goes to a farm which ensures all workers are Americans, or are LPRs w/ work authorization....

Since the other thread got closed can you answer the question you posed to me: "There's a reason why they're hired. What do you think that may be?"

Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote or if you think it is not true but from real life experience, 3 years having a wife working in the restaurant industry with illegals, giving 3 to 4 different "illegals" rides home on occasion, interacting with them, even going to Chicago to a concert with a few of them, I think I have a better understanding of how it works.

So I am assuming you think the reason they are hired is because they work for under minimum wage and therefore are secretly paid in cash, lol.

I can assure you that from talking to illegals that worked at Red Robin, McDonald's, Coney Island, and the restaurant my wife works at that they are paid by check with taxes coming out. And they are paid at the same rate as everyone else.

And to top it off, the person doing the hiring (kitchen manager) is an illegal himself (at least in the case of Red Robin and the place my wife works at).

So to anyone reading this - illegals (mostly that barely speak English) do not walk into a random restaurant, ask to speak to the manager that makes $25,000 a year who only speaks English, communicate through a translator telling the manager that they'll work under the table for cheaper, paid in cash, because they are illegal.

So since they are not being paid cash and <minimum wage, why do you think they are being hired in restaurants across the US?

[Robby999 1,024]

Plenty of prisoners sitting around all day doing nothing. Give them a job, they need a break from weightlifting, watching television, and filing appeals ! That would also give them a means to pay restitution to their victims/court costs. Plus many of them are U.S. citizens also.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Robby999

[lostinblue 1,989]

simply not enough trained and willing American agricultural workers to get these jobs done

apples would go unpicked and food would be in short supply.

Having picked apples I will offer this up. Training

1）Lean the ladder against the tree in a safe manner.

2)put the bag on your shoulder

3)Put the apples in the bag gently.Do not drop or throw them.

4)Pour the full bag gently into the crate

5）Record and tag your crate.

Training finished.

Welfare people could do this.I guess 99 weekers could also.Our government provides them with a certain lifestyle so they won't have to work.

Prices for fruit will depend on how it is marketed: pick-your-own, pre-picked on-farm sales, farmers’ market sales, or wholesale in bulk to a packer. At some pick-your-own orchards in Minnesota, many varieties sell for about $1.00 per pound; pre-picked fruit costs about $1.25. The same fruit, wholesaled to a packer, might be worth only ten cents per pound

A good picker can pick 8-12 bins per day. $15per bin,

Farm Work: Americans Steer Clear Of Apple Harvest

by Martin Kaste

October 26, 2010

Unemployment is stuck at above 9 percent, and it's become commonplace to call this the worst economy since the Great Depression.

But is the economy bad enough for out-of-work Americans to consider going to work back on the farm?

In Washington state, at a time when other wages have been stagnant, agriculture wages are up nearly 8 percent over the last two years. Some of this increase may be attributable to increased immigration enforcement by the federal government.

Late last year, the federal government reviewed the documents at Gebbers Farms, the biggest employer in the small town of Brewster, Wash., on a northern stretch of the Columbia River. The review — sometimes called a "silent raid" — forced Gebbers to fire an estimated 500 illegal workers.

The company is now using a more costly workforce imported legally from Mexico and Jamaica through the government's agricultural worker visa program.

Bob Brody, who has an apple orchard next door to Gebbers, says he thinks the visa system is too expensive, and the other alternative — hiring Americans — is a fantasy.

"They won't do it," he says. "Talk to any grower."

In the last 10 years, Brody says he's had only one American ask for a job as an apple picker, and he wanted too much money.

But now, the pay is inching up. Like most growers in the region, Brody says he needs more workers. He's offering an extra dollar per bin of apples picked; in his productive Red Delicious orchards, he's offering $15 per bin. At that rate, a fast worker can make $120 a day.

And yet, Americans still aren't applying for those jobs.

Language, Cultural Barriers

In town, Kara McWilliams says part of the reason is that white Americans like her don't feel comfortable applying for work that's done almost exclusively by Hispanics.

"I speak fluent Spanish, too" she says. "It's hard, that's why I haven't even tried."

But social tensions aside, the biggest factor is still money. While wages have gone up, it's still not what most Americans would consider enough to live on.

Craig Carroll, administrator of the regional state employment office, says that's particularly true for someone who doesn't have experience in the orchards.

"The people that don't really have the skills, previous experience harvesting fruit, since it is piecework, they may not even make minimum wage," he says.

In the Red Delicious orchard, a migrant woman from Oaxaca, Mexico, shows off her experience. She moves a ladder around the trees with lightning precision, and picks two or three apples at a time with each hand. Rarely breaking her pace, she fills a canvas bag around her neck, and when that fills up, she empties it into a bin.

The bin holds half a ton of apples, and she can fill eight of them a day.

"And she's a woman!" marvels Cesar Trejo, the crew boss at this orchard. At $15 per bin, she can make $120 for a day of nonstop work. It's better pay than in Mexico, but still not enough to attract Americans.

Asked if there might be a wage high enough to bring Americans back to the orchards, Trejo shrugs. It doesn't matter, he says, because it's not going to happen.

Pricing Pressure From Chile And China

"The boss can't pay more than he makes," he says. Pressure from low-cost producers in Chile and China has helped hold down the market price for American apples over the last few years.

Washington growers have made efforts in recent years to try to cut their labor costs to stay competitive. They've implemented more mechanization and planted a greater variety of apples, which spreads out the harvest season and allows them to get by with fewer workers.

Still, Brody says, if people want higher wages in the orchards, the federal government would have to guarantee him and other producers a minimum price for their apples — and that would probably mean higher prices in the produce section.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130840422

[Fandango 1,439]

Since the other thread got closed can you answer the question you posed to me: "There's a reason why they're hired. What do you think that may be?"

Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote or if you think it is not true but from real life experience, 3 years having a wife working in the restaurant industry with illegals, giving 3 to 4 different "illegals" rides home on occasion, interacting with them, even going to Chicago to a concert with a few of them, I think I have a better understanding of how it works.

So I am assuming you think the reason they are hired is because they work for under minimum wage and therefore are secretly paid in cash, lol.

I can assure you that from talking to illegals that worked at Red Robin, McDonald's, Coney Island, and the restaurant my wife works at that they are paid by check with taxes coming out. And they are paid at the same rate as everyone else.

And to top it off, the person doing the hiring (kitchen manager) is an illegal himself (at least in the case of Red Robin and the place my wife works at).

So to anyone reading this - illegals (mostly that barely speak English) do not walk into a random restaurant, ask to speak to the manager that makes $25,000 a year who only speaks English, communicate through a translator telling the manager that they'll work under the table for cheaper, paid in cash, because they are illegal.

So since they are not being paid cash and <minimum wage, why do you think they are being hired in restaurants across the US?

Obviously, illegals are cheaper to employ. That's what I was getting at. Otherwise, if there was no benefit to the employer, they wouldn't do it.

I'm not talking about the employer who unknowingly hires illegals with fake documentation. However, let's say the employer offers a terrible wage for a lot of work. If there weren't illegals around who are willing to do that work at that price, then the employer would be forced to offer a more competitive wage, which would go to legal workers. Illegals are the scabs to the 'union' that is the American workforce.

You can talk all you want with anecdotal evidence of illegals working for McD's and the like, but you're really not being fair by presenting that as the only scenario in which illegals work. There are more than enough businesses who knowingly employ illegals, and do so for the financial benefit.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[Fandango 1,439]

Not sure if you didn't read what I wrote or if you think it is not true but from real life experience, 3 years having a wife working in the restaurant industry with illegals, giving 3 to 4 different "illegals" rides home on occasion, interacting with them, even going to Chicago to a concert with a few of them, I think I have a better understanding of how it works.

Oh, btw, because your wife went to a concert with illegals does NOT mean you're more enlightened on the subject. That's effing ridiculous...funny as hell, but ridiculous.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Let's ask a southerner this question. Was slavery worth it? Maybe we could go back to the days of slavery to help justify people who knowingly break the laws of this country by knowingly entering the United States of America illegally.

In fact let's just say "fck it" and do away with all the immigration laws. Hey, I say we all go third world...I mean were headed that way anyways.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes, of course. Charge higher prices. we either pay for the humans they exploit and abuse in taxes, or we pay for replacing abused and exploited humans in higher prices so they can pay livable wages to workers.

Any other response is suggesting that farmers cannot survive without exploiting humans and violating the law. Ridiculous.

[mawilson 2,133]

My solution is to keep the status quo. We have a perfectly good shadow underclass of illegals who have no rights and are willing to do crappy jobs for even crappier wages. It's about as close to slave labor as you can get without an auction block. Why change it?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

My understanding is that its not just the wages (I saw a report where farmers in Georgia are paying at or above min wage and still not get workers), its the lifestyle. To do this type of work you have to be nomadic. Traveling from state to state depending on the seasons.

Thats why I do support the "migrant worker" visas. I mentioned this in another thread though, there is no market need for an illegal immigrant to be in:

1. Construction

2. Retail

3. Domestic Services

Americans in these industries ARE being harmed by illegal immigrants taking jobs.

The government needs to squash demand for illegals and then provide enough migrant worker visas so that enough legal agricultural works meet market demand.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Oh, btw, because your wife went to a concert with illegals does NOT mean you're more enlightened on the subject. That's effing ridiculous...funny as hell, but ridiculous.

i was reading that ####### & thinking..'wow, what a dipshit'

My solution is to keep the status quo. We have a perfectly good shadow underclass of illegals who have no rights and are willing to do crappy jobs for even crappier wages. It's about as close to slave labor as you can get without an auction block. Why change it?

most of the cheerleaders don't give a damn about the actual people. they just want to make sure their organics @ trader joes & their lawncare stay within their budget.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My solution is to keep the status quo. We have a perfectly good shadow underclass of illegals who have no rights and are willing to do crappy jobs for even crappier wages. It's about as close to slave labor as you can get without an auction block. Why change it?

You are a Democrat?