Eight hours of terror in southern Israel

[Pooky 3,830]

Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of “Irgun butchery,” were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede.

How much did the neighbouring Arab nations, with their vow to crush the nascent state of Israel within days of its establishment and return the Palestinians to their homes, play into this?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

How much did the neighbouring Arab nations, with their vow to crush the nascent state of Israel within days of its establishment and return the Palestinians to their homes, play into this?

I don't understand. Are you ignoring the historical fact that Jewish terrorism against Arabs and Europeans played heavily in the creation of Israel, or, are you saying that the slaughter of Arabs and the denial of the right of return is inconsequential to the animosity between the nations and people affected by Israel's wake?

PS - The history of Israel did not start on the date its leaders declared it to be a nation. It was not merely that declaration that created divisions between it and its neighbors.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Letter That Albert Einstein and other prominent Jews Sent to the New York Times 1948, Protesting the Visit of Menachem Begin

Letters to the Editor

New York Times

December 4, 1948

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughoutthe world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement. The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ

HANNAH ARENDT

ABRAHAM BRICK

RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO

ALBERT EINSTEIN

HERMAN EISEN, M.D.

HAYIM FINEMAN

M. GALLEN, M.D.

H.H. HARRIS

ZELIG S. HARRIS

SIDNEY HOOK

FRED KARUSH

BRURIA KAUFMAN

IRMA L. LINDHEIM

NACHMAN MAISEL

SEYMOUR MELMAN

MYER D. MENDELSON

M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY

SAMUEL PITLICK

FRITZ ROHRLICH

LOUIS P. ROCKER

RUTH SAGIS

ITZHAK SANKOWSKY

I.J. SHOENBERG

SAMUEL SHUMAN

M. SINGER

IRMA WOLFE

STEFAN WOLF.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

[Pooky 3,830]

I don't understand. Are you ignoring the historical fact that Jewish terrorism against Arabs and Europeans played heavily in the creation of Israel, or, are you saying that the slaughter of Arabs and the denial of the right of return is inconsequential to the animosity between the nations and people affected by Israel's wake?

PS - The history of Israel did not start on the date its leaders declared it to be a nation. It was not merely that declaration that created divisions between it and its neighbors.

I am ignoring nothing, just asking a simple question.

And the date was set by the leaders of 5 neighbouring Arab nations, all of which participated in the first Middle East war.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

+1

In the Declaration of Independence, May 1948, Ben Gurion called upon Arab inhabitants within the state of Israel to build the state side by side with full citizenship rights - which in large part they have done to this very day. And he called upon the neighboring Arab states to build bonds with Israel. Which they largely have not done, with the exceptions of Egypt and Jordan. And even those took decades after 1948 and courage rarely seen in the region by Sadat and King Hussein.

This is not true and never was. It was a nice idea and maybe one day it might come to pass but I have enough Arab Jewish friends who tell me otherwise. In any event, we can't relive the past, Israel has the ability to move forward and make peace but only if it wants to.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

How much did the neighbouring Arab nations, with their vow to crush the nascent state of Israel within days of its establishment and return the Palestinians to their homes, play into this?

Not one bit. Deir Yassin was a village composed of people who were very good friends with the local Jewish population. But now we're reliving history, to what end?

Edited August 20, 2011 by IR5FORMUMSIE

[Pooky 3,830]

Not one bit. Deir Yassin was a village composed of people who were very good friends with the local Jewish population. But now we're reliving history, to what end?

That isn't what I was referring to, as was clearly set out in my post and the quote it contained.

Soffiya posted about the subsequent exodus of the Arabs from the country. I never disputed the main cause was the massacre at Deir Yassin, but that was not the only cause. I merely asked how much the promises of the Arab nations played into the movement of the Arab population.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I am ignoring nothing, just asking a simple question.

And the date was set by the leaders of 5 neighbouring Arab nations, all of which participated in the first Middle East war.

I didn't understand why threats from a foreign nation would be more of an impetus to flee your homes than the real time violent acts of the terrorists at your doorstep.

[Pooky 3,830]

I didn't understand why threats from a foreign nation would be more of an impetus to flee your homes than the real time violent acts of the terrorists at your doorstep.

They weren't threats, they were promises - to crush Israel and give the Palestinians freedom to return unimpeded to their homes.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

That isn't what I was referring to, as was clearly set out in my post and the quote it contained.

Soffiya posted about the subsequent exodus of the Arabs from the country. I never disputed the main cause was the massacre at Deir Yassin, but that was not the only cause. I merely asked how much the promises of the Arab nations played into the movement of the Arab population.

It wasn't just Arabs who fled, btw. Indigenous Jews were routed from their homes by Zionist terrorists, as is stated in the NYT letter I posted. The big difference between the disenfranchisement of the Jews as opposed to the Arabs is that the Jews were allowed to return and reclaim their property, while the Arabs were not.

They weren't threats, they were promises - to crush Israel and give the Palestinians freedom to return unimpeded to their homes.

I suppose I'm unable to grasp the significance of promises in contrast to the violence they were already experiencing from their occupiers.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

That isn't what I was referring to, as was clearly set out in my post and the quote it contained.

Soffiya posted about the subsequent exodus of the Arabs from the country. I never disputed the main cause was the massacre at Deir Yassin, but that was not the only cause. I merely asked how much the promises of the Arab nations played into the movement of the Arab population.

No need to get testy. The answer is not one bit. The indigenous population was threatened by various groups, heck, many Jews were also threatened by these same groups. That's why they left. Again, why are we discussing this?

Edited August 20, 2011 by IR5FORMUMSIE

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

It wasn't just Arabs who fled, btw. Indigenous Jews were routed from their homes by Zionist terrorists, as is stated in the NYT letter I posted. The big difference between the disenfranchisement of the Jews as opposed to the Arabs is that the Jews were allowed to return and reclaim their property, while the Arabs were not.

No totally true, the Sephardim were treated like garbage and still are.

[Pooky 3,830]

No need to get testy. The answer is not one bit. The indigenous population was threatened by various groups, heck, many Jews were also threatened by these same groups. That's why they left. Again, why are we discussing this?

I wasn't getting testy and apologise if it seemed that way to you. I have been intentionally misquoted before and, after asking a straight question, hoped for a straight answer.

The reason for the question is to build a better jigsaw. The Jewish terrorists played a big part in how the situation came evolve the way it did, but they weren't the only factor, something that can be conveniently ignored when people try to attribute responsibility and blame to what happened, and is still happening, there.

And for those that might ask why I'm interested, my father was serving with the Royal Air Force in Palestine at the time the King David Hotel was bombed. Two of his friends died there.

[Karee 4,191]

All this banter is pretty funny. Bottom line is that the IDF can do whatever they want. The U.S. will and has always vetoed any resolution against Israel. I still rack my brain trying to understand how the Israelis can do what they do, and then claim victim status. You would think if they looked back to Europe in the 40s, they'd be a little more compassionate. Apparently not.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I wasn't getting testy and apologise if it seemed that way to you. I have been intentionally misquoted before and, after asking a straight question, hoped for a straight answer.

The reason for the question is to build a better jigsaw. The Jewish terrorists played a big part in how the situation came evolve the way it did, but they weren't the only factor, something that can be conveniently ignored when people try to attribute responsibility and blame to what happened, and is still happening, there.

And for those that might ask why I'm interested, my father was serving with the Royal Air Force in Palestine at the time the King David Hotel was bombed. Two of his friends died there.

My view is, when a bunch of foreigners come into a region, impose their concepts of commerce, property rights and possession, develop an army to drive out the indigenous population, and commit terrorism toward their ends, it's pretty damn hard to ignore that, place most of the blame on their opposition and feel sorry for the invaders. I'm pretty consistent about that be it illegals in the US or Zionists in my ancestral homeland.

Not that I'm saying you're doing that, Pooky, but it is the most common narrative, so addressing it is in order.