Eight hours of terror in southern Israel

[ready4ONE 5,400]

There won't be peace as long as both sides rely on their Gods that don't exist to justify their respective positions, and look to said Gods who don't exist to settle the issue.

To the OP, Israel now has a new border to contend with. No more, no less. Someone is seeking a new Naksha and they just might get it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There won't be peace as long as both sides rely on their Gods that don't exist to justify their respective positions, and look to said Gods who don't exist to settle the issue.

To the OP, Israel now has a new border to contend with. No more, no less. Someone is seeking a new Naksha and they just might get it.

Israel resists defining its borders so it can continue to steal land and blame others for doing it.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I have no cause to pursue a calumny upon you, and I haven't. Commenting on the comments of others is what we do here. I'm loyal too, but, my loyalty not first to any man, but to God, allowing me to call for justice even against myself, my friends or my kin, as we are called upon to do.

I'm not going to argue with you over your actions or words, I am not sitting in judgment of you. Prayer is the invocation to justice. HE is justice and HE will strengthen resolve and keep us from transgression. Aside from relating your outrage at the founding of Israel and rehashing history, what concrete steps are you suggesting be taken?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm not going to argue with you over your actions or words, I am not sitting in judgment of you. Prayer is the invocation to justice. HE is justice and HE will strengthen resolve and keep us from transgression. Aside from relating your outrage at the founding of Israel and rehashing history, what concrete steps are you suggesting be taken?

I have no suggestions that anyone would take seriously. History is relevant because it's history that is cited to justify the existence of a Zionist state in Palestine. The conditions upon which it was founded contradict the way it is administered, a fact that many Jews take issue with as it eats into the perception that these are a oppressed and persecuted people committing oppression and persecution upon others.

The need to paint one side as good and the other side as bad is a necessary propaganda, but incredibly transparent to anyone with a stake in the outcome. I'm not anti-Jewish nor do I demand an end to the nation. Yet, I read the "poor Israel" articles with some amusement, as my empathy for their position continues to erode.

The conflict in the ME is not one that can be understood better by ignoring history. Both sides haven't forgotten it and won't any time soon.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I have no suggestions that anyone would take seriously. History is relevant because it's history that is cited to justify the existence of a Zionist state in Palestine. The conditions upon which it was founded contradict the way it is administered, a fact that many Jews take issue with as it eats into the perception that these are a oppressed and persecuted people committing oppression and persecution upon others.

The need to paint one side as good and the other side as bad is a necessary propaganda, but incredibly transparent to anyone with a stake in the outcome. I'm not anti-Jewish nor do I demand an end to the nation. Yet, I read the "poor Israel" articles with some amusement, as my empathy for their position continues to erode.

The conflict in the ME is not one that can be understood better by ignoring history. Both sides haven't forgotten it and won't any time soon.

You're expecting Joe from Tikrit to show up? History means what exactly? If Rabbi DeHaan (may the memory of the righteous be for blessing) wasn't assassinated would anything have changed? To whom is our return?

[scandal 951]

There won't be peace as long as both sides rely on their Gods that don't exist to justify their respective positions, and look to said Gods who don't exist to settle the issue.

To the OP, Israel now has a new border to contend with. No more, no less. Someone is seeking a new Naksha and they just might get it.

The majority of Israelis are non-religious. I'm not saying there is no appeal to "God", but for most of us this is a practical matter of security, borders, land, resources. No need to bring "God" anywhere near it.

There is a new border situation, unfortunately. Personally I'm glad Mubarak is gone. The man was a despot and as a believer in self-determination it was high time for him to go. May Khadaffi and Assad and the rest of the butchers follow quickly in his wake. However Mubarak's departure has left a real vacuum in the Sinai and may have transformed the geopolitics of the area dramatically. It's still early in the new Egypt, we'll have to wait and see what sort of regime emerges.

This is not the first time such a thing has happened. Namely, sudden conversion of quiet border to hostile one. From 1948-1970 the border with Lebanon was peaceful, and kibbutznik farmers in the "ezbah haGalil" (Galilee "finger" extending to Metullah) would cross freely into neighboring Lebanese villages and Lebanese crossed into Israel. That ended with Black September in 1970 and then sudden expulsion of the PLO from Jordan to southern Lebanon, where they put the kabosh on any such good relations between Israel and a neighboring Arab state. The border was again opened in 1976 when Maronite Christians controlled southern Lebanon and again we had a relatively peaceful border with low-level commerce flowing across it. That's all over now in the era of Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.

[scandal 951]

And ... here we go....

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/egypt-withdraws-ambassdor-from-israel-over-policemen-deaths-1.379631

Egypt withdraws ambassdor from Israel over policemen deaths

Interim government to take protective measures and strengthen security at the border with necessary forces capable of deterring alleged infiltrators.

By DPA Tags: Egypt Gaza

Egypt will withdraw its ambassador to Israel until it receives an apology and the results of an official investigation into the killing of five Egyptian policemen near the border, the cabinet said Saturday.

An emergency committee said the ambassador would be recalled until "Israeli authorities apologize for the hasty and regrettable statements about Egypt."

Israel-Egypt border

The Israel-Egyptian border, February 2011.

Photo by: Uriel Sinai

It said Egypt also held Israel responsible for political and legal implications of the incident, which it called a violation of the Camp David Treaty.

Egypt will also take protective measures and strengthen security at the border with the necessary forces capable of deterring alleged infiltrators as well as respond to any activity by the Israeli military, it added.

On Friday, the government protested to Israel over the killing of five policemen on the border and demanded an "urgent investigation into the causes and circumstances of the incident.

The policemen were patrolling in the Egyptian region of Sinai when they came under fire from across the border, sources at the interior ministry said.

Hundreds of Egyptians protested outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo on Friday demanding the expulsion of the ambassador.

Ousted president Hosni Mubarak was viewed by many Egyptians as taking a lenient stance toward Israel.

Tensions have mounted along the borders with Israel and the Gaza Strip after deadly attacks in southern Israel on Thursday.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Now, more than even, peace must be pushed through.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's rather sad that a country that depends so much on it's enemies to "protect" them cannot fathom why it has so many enemies to start with and what it must do to make more allies. Such is Israel's dilemma.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Sofiyya

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Peace will only be achieved when the cycle of violence is broken. One side needs to resist the urge to retaliate for the other to be forced by world opinion to do the same. Who will blink first?

I am in total agreement here. Israel, mainly because it has the means to, must make the deaths of those innocent people mean something. There must be the will to push through the peace no matter what happens. Retaliation is what is expected so instead go for peace. Gather intelligence on who did what and prosecute them, don't give them the satisfaction of being martyrs. It can be done or EVERYONE who's ever died on either will have perished for no reason.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

It's rather sad that a country that depends so much on it's enemies to "protect" them cannot fathom why it has so many enemies to start with and what it must do to make more allies. Such is Israel's dilemma.

It started off with enemies who felt every bit of hateful fervor for it's destruction from the moment of it's inception which currently is only felt by the bitterest and/or most radical "Palestinians" and a dwindling few neighborimg supporters of like mind such as Irans leadership.

These days most folk just want to see some peace and are not really impressed by either side claiming blame for not having peace rests solely on the other. Of course that is easiest to say when you don't have a dog in the fight.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The "moment of inception" was earlier than you may think, and, yes, not having a dog in the fights makes many people sound very naive about it.

[scandal 951]

It started off with enemies who felt every bit of hateful fervor for it's destruction from the moment of it's inception

+1

In the Declaration of Independence, May 1948, Ben Gurion called upon Arab inhabitants within the state of Israel to build the state side by side with full citizenship rights - which in large part they have done to this very day. And he called upon the neighboring Arab states to build bonds with Israel. Which they largely have not done, with the exceptions of Egypt and Jordan. And even those took decades after 1948 and courage rarely seen in the region by Sadat and King Hussein.

THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL

May 14, 1948

On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel. The new state was recognized that night by the United States and three days later by the USSR.

ERETZ-ISRAEL [(Hebrew) - the Land of Israel, Palestine] was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.

After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.

Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, ma'pilim [(Hebrew) - immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation] and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood.

In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.

This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.

The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations.

Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland.

In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations.

On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.

This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.

ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel".

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.

WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream - the redemption of Israel.

PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE "ROCK OF ISRAEL", WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE 5TH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY,1948).

David Ben-Gurion

Daniel Auster

Mordekhai Bentov

Yitzchak Ben Zvi

Eliyahu Berligne

Fritz Bernstein

Rabbi Wolf Gold

Meir Grabovsky

Yitzchak Gruenbaum

Dr. Abraham Granovsky

Eliyahu Dobkin

Meir Wilner-Kovner

Zerach Wahrhaftig

Herzl Vardi Rachel Cohen

Rabbi Kalman Kahana

Saadia Kobashi

Rabbi Yitzchak Meir Levin

Meir David Loewenstein

Zvi Luria

Golda Myerson

Nachum Nir

Zvi Segal

Rabbi Yehuda Leib Hacohen Fishman

David Zvi Pinkas

Aharon Zisling

Moshe Kolodny

Eliezer Kaplan

Abraham Katznelson

Felix Rosenblueth

David Remez

Berl Repetur

Mordekhai Shattner

Ben Zion Sternberg

Bekhor Shitreet

Moshe Shapira

Moshe Shertok

* Published in the Official Gazette, No. 1 of the 5th, Iyar, 5708 (14th May, 1948).

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Read of things Zionist propagandists don't want you to know about their acts of terrorism.

When Truman and Ben-Gurion took a stand for… terrorism

by PHILIP WEISS on MAY 27, 2010

I'm reading an amazing book on the U.S. decision to recognize Israel in '48 called A Calculated Risk, by the late State Department aide Evan Wilson.The two excerpts below are from the year 1946. The first refers to David Ben-Gurion's testimony before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry of 1946 (which Wilson served and which deprecated partition of Palestine). The second excerpt describes a diplomatic incident in the summer of 1946. Bear in mind that within three weeks of the second incident, Jewish terrorists blew up the King David Hotel, killing 91 people.

Oh and it goes without saying, but: Substitute Palestinian for Jewish in these excerpts, and then consider what the U.S. position would be.

Ben Gurion refused to be drawn out on the subject of Jewish terrorism, on which he was repeatedly questioned, saying only that it was "futile" for the authorities to try to stamp out the Jewish resistance movement when it commanded the support of the whole Jewish community.... He said that the Jewish Agency [the official representative of Jews in Palestine, which Ben Gurion headed] had nothing to do with the Haganah [Jewish paramilitary force] and that he had no knowledge of who the head of the Haganah was or where its headquarters were...

On June 28 [british Prime Minister Clement] Attlee cabled the President [Harry Truman] informing him that the British had decided to take stern measures to curb Jewish terrorism in Palestine, including the arrest of certain leaders of the Jewish Agency. Attlee added that anything the President might feel able to say in support of the British decision would be welcome. Truman, however, after receiving a group of American Zionist leaders on July 2, issued a statement saying he had not been consulted by the British about this action and expressing the hope that the persons arrested would soon be released.

New York City celebrates terrorists.

by Peter A. Belmont / 2009-01-22

See the brass plaque in the sidewalk on the south side of E. 60th Street, Manhattan, just east of the “R” subway station on 5th Avenue.

Please don’t be shocked. Or ‘shocked, shocked’. New York City celebrates a group of terrorists with a big brass plaque in the sidewalk on E. 60th Street. That is (to follow the US’s definition of terrorism), it celebrates and memorializes an armed non-state group which uses (or at the time used) illegal violence to bring about a political result.

Of course, the city does not celebrate all terrorists. This is New York City, after all, whose mayors regularly travel to Israel to show their qualifications to rule this city. And whose current mayor felt impelled to travel to Israel during Israel’s recent destruction of Gaza. You were wondering which terrrorists were memorialized, were’nt you. This is a hint.

Perhaps Miami has a brass plaque to celebrate anti-Castro terrorism. Each city makes its peace with terrorism in its on way. In New York City, we celebrate Israeli (or Jewish) terrorism.

And, of course, all of America celebrates the founding fathers who, from a purely British viewpoint of the time, were probably terrorists. (We’re all friends now!)

The E. 60th Street plaque celebrates the fund-raising center of the Hagana, Israel’s pre-state military, a group which took part in Menachem Begin’s massacre of the villagers of Deir Yassin in April 1948, before the State of Israel was officially created.

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre “disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag.” They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists’ attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent “mopping up” operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin’s words, “Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander” as a part of its “plan for establishing an airfield.”

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:

Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of “Irgun butchery,” were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.

See here.

For more about the Zionist threat in 1948, and more about Deir Yassin, see the letter by Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and many others, denouncing Begin’s party.

It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed,

It’s really quite something, isn’t it, to contemplate that there are some things even the mighty USA, the world’s sole superpower (to hear the zealots crow), cannot do. Things even Israel cannot do.

Neither the USA nor Israel can manage to engage in terrorism. Because (as we define it) terrorism is a non-state activity. We and Israel can make war, but we simply cannot engage in terrorism.

Good to know.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Don't let Zionists like Scandal convince you that the creation of Israel was ever an innocent affair, or that what has passed since then is a matter of them just wanting to be friends with their Arab neighbors. None of it is true.