Tea Party less popular than atheists and Muslims

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Only qualified dividends. Non-qualified dividends are taxed at the standard income tax rate.

The 15% also applies to long term capital gains and carried interest.

[mawilson 2,133]

Then you must hate that the rich pay the same sales tax rate as the poor, the same excise tax rate on gas and tires, and the same tax for their dog license. Is something wrong with that too?

You need a license to own a dog?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Then you must hate that the rich pay the same sales tax rate as the poor, the same excise tax rate on gas and tires, and the same tax for their dog license. Is something wrong with that too?

These are regressive taxes and I am not a big fan of them.

[Robert&Karen 264]

You're slipping away...

You do understand that consumption taxes are set on a definite amount, while incomes are not a set amount in a society were consumption is a necessity? I know you exaggerate a few posts back about buying up luxuries, but most Americans probably won't find it very funny to be (if they're lucky) earning peanuts for doing an honest job that may or may not require less skills than those in the upper 1-2-3% crust.

You bring up a few points, I'll divide them to be fair.

Social security taxes are a tax based on income and are a set amount. Once you pay enough into it, click here, you no longer pay any more. So the income after this point is basically tax free for this particular tax.

Ever see the TV show "Undercover Boss?" The millionaire boss has a huge ego but admits he cannot do what the others below him do. In the Army I met more than one full bird Colonel who could not field strip a rifle. The jobs they do are different but within the same company one expects the top dog to know all the jobs below him, after all you should rise up from within the company, right?

Yes I know people earning peanuts for hard work. I used to pick carrots for $6/hr and it was torture. Believe me I know the drill when it comes to hard labor with no reward. Picking carrots is a skill that takes 11 seconds to master. And you know it bothered me to see the packing plant owner driving a Ferrari.

However I was one of the lucky ones to break out of that financial condition. I recall one raise I got that was significant but it hardly showed on my check because of a higher tax rate. That sucked! I so wanted a flat tax at that point! Over time I actually came out ahead by doing the long form 1040. I finally had deductions more than what they give you by default. Then I get a house and bingo, tax write off on the interest paid, effectively making my mortgage less than what I used to pay for rent.

In this economy I see people doing what they can. In Publix in Tampa there is a guy with a Master's Degree pushing shopping carts back into the store from the parking lot. This is absolutely terrible and embarrassing. I wish I could do something. I thank God daily I have what I do, I never take a day for granted, and I wish the best for anyone here.

What taxes did we have a hundred years ago? I bet most of these taxes never existed at one point in time. Some may be affected disproportionately, but we are all nonetheless affected.

[mawilson 2,133]

The 15% also applies to long term capital gains and carried interest.

What gains? Have you seen the markets lately?

I guess you don't give a ####### when the rich *lose* millions/billions in long-term investments, but you want to tax them at a higher rate when the investments pay off.

[Robert&Karen 264]

You need a license to own a dog?

In the last place I lived the police came by with dog whistles and blew them while walking down the street, and when the dogs came to the fences they checked for licenses on their collar. No license? They leave you a $200 ticket on your front door and you need to pay full price for a license within a week. Yup, right there in my own back yard! It's not like he was out loose and bit a kid.

What gains? Have you seen the markets lately?

I guess you don't give a ####### when the rich *lose* millions/billions in long-term investments, but you want to tax them at a higher rate when the investments pay off.

Good point, I spent $400k on a house now worth $100k and I will never see my lost money or what I put into the house.

Edited August 19, 2011 by aorobert

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

You need a license to own a dog?

in some german cities, yes.

[Zero Sum 305]

You bring up a few points, I'll divide them to be fair.

Social security taxes are a tax based on income and are a set amount. Once you pay enough into it, click here, you no longer pay any more. So the income after this point is basically tax free for this particular tax.

Ever see the TV show "Undercover Boss?" The millionaire boss has a huge ego but admits he cannot do what the others below him do. In the Army I met more than one full bird Colonel who could not field strip a rifle. The jobs they do are different but within the same company one expects the top dog to know all the jobs below him, after all you should rise up from within the company, right?

Yes I know people earning peanuts for hard work. I used to pick carrots for $6/hr and it was torture. Believe me I know the drill when it comes to hard labor with no reward. Picking carrots is a skill that takes 11 seconds to master. And you know it bothered me to see the packing plant owner driving a Ferrari.

However I was one of the lucky ones to break out of that financial condition. I recall one raise I got that was significant but it hardly showed on my check because of a higher tax rate. That sucked! I so wanted a flat tax at that point! Over time I actually came out ahead by doing the long form 1040. I finally had deductions more than what they give you by default. Then I get a house and bingo, tax write off on the interest paid, effectively making my mortgage less than what I used to pay for rent.

In this economy I see people doing what they can. In Publix in Tampa there is a guy with a Master's Degree pushing shopping carts back into the store from the parking lot. This is absolutely terrible and embarrassing. I wish I could do something. I thank God daily I have what I do, I never take a day for granted, and I wish the best for anyone here.

What taxes did we have a hundred years ago? I bet most of these taxes never existed at one point in time. Some may be affected disproportionately, but we are all nonetheless affected.

Seems a little more realistic, thanks.

It seems you should re-focus the brunt of your efforts at having an honestly fair tax system where the poor and middle classes are not taxed out of proportion to their incomes in relation to the rich. When the rich suffer the effects of taxation as the lower rungs of the totem pole, then you'd have a case to complain about too many taxes. As it stands its not too ridiculous to consider who have a heavier burden in society, and its not heavy earners that pay more in absolute cash, yet still cry when they're asked to continue living the high life in exchange for a better overall society.

And I am not talking about handing cash out to the lazy- as is the usual reaction to 'government spending.'

You may do well in considering past taxation rates. The wealthy were still wealthy while paying much more.

What gains? Have you seen the markets lately?

I guess you don't give a ####### when the rich *lose* millions/billions in long-term investments, but you want to tax them at a higher rate when the investments pay off.

The rich stay rich? Yes. So what's the problem?

The middle class lose jobs as a result of greedy philandering with stocks? Yes. That is a problem.

[mawilson 2,133]

The rich stay rich? Yes. So what's the problem?

Not all. The number of millionaires plunged by 15% following the 2008 stock market crash.

The value of their assets fell by 20% in 2008, after a 9.4% increase in 2007.

You think the rich have a magic wand that they use to make money and they are immune to the problems facing our economy?

[Zero Sum 305]

Not all. The number of millionaires plunged by 15% following the 2008 stock market crash.

The value of their assets fell by 20% in 2008, after a 9.4% increase in 2007.

You think the rich have a magic wand that they use to make money and they are immune to the problems facing our economy?

Look at me crying for the rich.

No magic wand. Maybe the percentages you use to qualify people as rich are not exactly representative of those that continually use the system of government of the nation to further their own gains, even in light of economic downturns.

You've seen the graphs and confirmed them to be true.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What gains? Have you seen the markets lately?

I guess you don't give a ####### when the rich *lose* millions/billions in long-term investments, but you want to tax them at a higher rate when the investments pay off.

These are realized gains and losses only. My portfolio is down right now but there will be no loss realized unless I actually sell. Nor will I realize any gain unless I actually sell at a profit. So, I control that flow of gains and losses for tax purposes, don't I? And excuse me for not getting too upset when people that pull in close to $300MM a year from investments suffer a loss or two from time to time. I think overall, they're doing just fine. Much better than the middle class and low income crowd for sure.

Just to visualize just how bad it really looks. We're a banana republic for crying out loud.

Blue - Wealth

Red - Taxes

Yellow - Population

Edited August 19, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[scandal 951]

And I apologize for mixing up some of the messengers here. I cannot scroll back to see all the pages and I should take better care of the names, I do not want to insult anyone, I'd rather discuss the topic and not the person. Then again if some of the questions I asked were addressed in a reply we'd not go back and forth a dozen times.

You'll find that you're a rare breed here. Someone willing to discuss the issues rationally and respectfully. There are not too many here willing to do that, but some of us try.

What taxes did we have a hundred years ago? I bet most of these taxes never existed at one point in time. Some may be affected disproportionately, but we are all nonetheless affected.

You are right, we have more taxes now than previously. But we also have more government services. This is a legitimate and honest debate to hold in this country: maintain/expand the role of government in society, or reduce it? It's a debate going on since the Federalist Papers and the Constitutional Convention. There is no one right answer, both the liberal and conservative (short hand for expand/reduce forces) make valid points for their cases. Most Americans benefit from and support many of the services government gives them. They answer that way in polls, and they've historically voted that way. Most Americans also don't like paying taxes (who does?) and are outraged by graft, corruption, waste, porkbarrel spending, and perceived unfairness. Most Americans also are responsible and try to live within their means and expect their government to do the same.

We have a problem today. The services we the people want (and yes, we want them, we voted for them, we tell pollsters we want them) cost more than we're willing to pay. So we have an unsustainable deficit.

We can fix this problem. If we're civil to each other, listen to each other, compromise with each other, we can do this. Services will need to be cut, but not cut out altogether. Taxes will go up, but fairly and with everyone sharing proportionately. Everyone will sacrifice, but none more than is equitable.

Americans have solved bigger problems and faced bigger challenges. This is in our grasp to do. I respect and applaud anyone - the most liberal or conservative of our politicians - who comes to Washington willing to work, listen, legislate, and compromise. I have no patience for any of them who sticks to their ideological position and refuses to budge. The Tea Party came to town precisely with that intent, and are following it with gritted teeth. They are not the problem solvers.

What gains? Have you seen the markets lately?

I guess you don't give a ####### when the rich *lose* millions/billions in long-term investments, but you want to tax them at a higher rate when the investments pay off.

Oh, puhleeze. They also write off their losses, and can carry them forward indefinitely to offset future gains.

[Robert&Karen 264]

It seems you should re-focus the brunt of your efforts at having an honestly fair tax system where the poor and middle classes are not taxed out of proportion to their incomes in relation to the rich. When the rich suffer the effects of taxation as the lower rungs of the totem pole, then you'd have a case to complain about too many taxes. As it stands its not too ridiculous to consider who have a heavier burden in society, and its not heavy earners that pay more in absolute cash, yet still cry when they're asked to continue living the high life in exchange for a better overall society.

The rich should suffer like the poor? Why? Should the rich have the same cheap clunker cars? Should they worry about their next meal? Where is the incentive to achieve then if you work harder and earn more yet receive no rewards for your labors? And the taxes are out of proportion percentage-wise. The rich pay a higher percent.

Look at me crying for the rich.

To someone you are rich. There are people who think you are well off because you have a computer so you should pay more taxes. And I bet if you were told at work you are getting a $10,000 a year raise you would be happy. And then what if you were told it is all being taken away as a tax? Would you say oh well I'm rich it was bound to happen? I think not. I think you can use that money.

Another related example. A few years back here in California they wanted to raise property taxes. My renter loved this idea, you know, stick it to the rich. I told him if my taxes go up $600 a year his rent goes up $50 a month. Where else do the rich get the money? Prices will go up to cover their higher taxes.

I am always willing to discuss topics, but personal attacks get us no where.

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh, puhleeze. They also write off their losses, and can carry them forward indefinitely to offset future gains.

Yeah. $3,000 per year. How long will it take you to write off a million dollar loss?

[scandal 951]

Yeah. $3,000 per year. How long will it take you to write off a million dollar loss?

Don't be silly.

It's $3K writeoff against EARNED INCOME (if you had no cap gains to write off against)

But it's dollar for dollar write off against future gains.

Lose 1M this year, make 2M next year, you'll pay tax only on the net 1M gain next year and write the whole loss off.