A fast advice is needed for a friend

[caybee 21]

From the POV of a USC female who married a MENA man, when you've grown up in the U.S. system and know how easy it is to fall behind on bills and get in a world of a mess, as much as you may love and respect the man, it's very difficult to relinquish "control" to someone who doesn't know the system yet and has ideas about the way things ought to work here either because they worked that way back home or that's the way their immigrant friends tell them it should work here. And teaching an immigrant the cultural norms and etiquette can mean a lot of correction and comments, hopefully constructive, in the beginning. Short fuses are normal on both sides. Maybe all of that comes across as controlling, domineering, and bossy to some MENA men. It's a difficult balance, trying to show love and respect to someone, while at the same time trying to teach them how your culture works and protect your (plural, it is hoped) financial security from decisions that may seem very reckless to some, including this particular USC female, especially if she'd been burned in a previous marriage. Of course, we haven't heard her side, so I'm only making assumptions based on personal experience.

If he came into this for the right reasons, perhaps it's not too late for counseling to help them see each other's points of view more clearly so he'll better understand why she's felt the need to be controlling (if indeed she has been) and so she'll better understand his expectations and can decide whether they're reasonable for her. If he came into this for the wrong reasons, all the counseling in the world won't save the marriage, though it might do her some good.

[caybee 21]

By the way, the original post made it sound like he was ready to grab a lawyer and try to go after part of her house and non-marital assets after only seven months of marriage, which I think made several people's hair stand on end, including mine. Nobody has a right to own property just by virtue of living here - I have yet to own property of my own - so "can he get some of hers since he doesn't have any" doesn't fly. If he tries something like this, he should be prepared for an expensive fight he'll probably lose - she's not going to give it up quietly after already being burned once.

On the other hand, if, for example, they bought a second car for work transportation for him, and he made most of the payments, but she kept it in her name for insurance or tax purposes or whatever practical reason, and they're able to sit down cordially with a mediator instead of attorneys, perhaps she'll be willing to negotiate putting the car into his name and letting him pay her back if she's put something into it, especially if public transportation is as lousy there as it is here, and he needs the car for work to support himself. That's just an example. A mediator could help them sort out what is a reasonable request and what is not. However, I realize he's unemployed now, and if he's only been here seven months, he may be better off going back home. In this economy, he'll really struggle to get by alone here, unless, of course, he's already lined something else up.

[No-Where-Man 147]

Beauty for Ashes

I dont ask anyone to help anyone screwing someone life, He asked my advise, and I come here to share and hear then combine what is said here and my own thought to give him the best advise, how he is going take it and what he will do is his own matter as none of us have control over it, may be he will understand and work it with her, may be he will leave to Egypt, or leave her and stay here, no one know, so please guys read as many as you can from the comments before jumping to conclusion that im here trying to help someone SCREW someone else life or im being pushy helping him, the fact he is an old friend doesnt mean im gonna support him doing the wrong thing, I seen alot of attackets on us muslims and being accused of manythings that is not true, but im one of the true muslims who is aware well of whats right and what is wrong, being said, I would appreciate leaving the fact he is from MENA or even from hell and dealing with the issue it self rather than just accusing.

None of us is innocent, and if he is doing the wrong thing we should ask that he be enlightened and listen, and if he wana do the wrong thing that GOD punish him and make us get rid of him and ppl who are like him that are everywhere, from MENA and outside MENA, Arabic and none-Arabic

It doesnt smell good for me as well, and so I advised to sit and talk together to define their issue and work on it

I made it clear that if he decided to leave, he didnt own anything since she is the one who made all of it before he even exist in her life

I talked with him last night, and from his talk, started feeling that I was wasting my time since all his talk was about what she is doing and what she is not without telling me the whole truth(I just feel it), I just ended my call saying that if he doesnt like the way their relation is, get out ask for divorce, dont expect any return, file to remove your conditions if you have what it takes to prove it was bonafide and move on, or just get divorce, go back to Egypt.

Why would he even look at something she owned solely when she killed herself to get him over here..Why should we coach you to help him screw her?

[No-Where-Man 147]

Thanks for your reply, this is the best I read till now as it shows understanding of the nature of the relationship burdens.

From the POV of a USC female who married a MENA man, when you've grown up in the U.S. system and know how easy it is to fall behind on bills and get in a world of a mess, as much as you may love and respect the man, it's very difficult to relinquish "control" to someone who doesn't know the system yet and has ideas about the way things ought to work here either because they worked that way back home or that's the way their immigrant friends tell them it should work here. And teaching an immigrant the cultural norms and etiquette can mean a lot of correction and comments, hopefully constructive, in the beginning. Short fuses are normal on both sides. Maybe all of that comes across as controlling, domineering, and bossy to some MENA men. It's a difficult balance, trying to show love and respect to someone, while at the same time trying to teach them how your culture works and protect your (plural, it is hoped) financial security from decisions that may seem very reckless to some, including this particular USC female, especially if she'd been burned in a previous marriage. Of course, we haven't heard her side, so I'm only making assumptions based on personal experience.

If he came into this for the right reasons, perhaps it's not too late for counseling to help them see each other's points of view more clearly so he'll better understand why she's felt the need to be controlling (if indeed she has been) and so she'll better understand his expectations and can decide whether they're reasonable for her. If he came into this for the wrong reasons, all the counseling in the world won't save the marriage, though it might do her some good.

[No-Where-Man 147]

I just cant tell more, no one here know him or her really, but its a moral thing to keep privacy though, I said what I could say, I made it clear to him that it was wrong he thought of all these expectations with a lady lived here all her life nearly even though she is the same religion and know the traditions as well, hopefully he is smart enough to do the right thing.

Thank you

By the way, the original post made it sound like he was ready to grab a lawyer and try to go after part of her house and non-marital assets after only seven months of marriage, which I think made several people's hair stand on end, including mine. Nobody has a right to own property just by virtue of living here - I have yet to own property of my own - so "can he get some of hers since he doesn't have any" doesn't fly. If he tries something like this, he should be prepared for an expensive fight he'll probably lose - she's not going to give it up quietly after already being burned once.

On the other hand, if, for example, they bought a second car for work transportation for him, and he made most of the payments, but she kept it in her name for insurance or tax purposes or whatever practical reason, and they're able to sit down cordially with a mediator instead of attorneys, perhaps she'll be willing to negotiate putting the car into his name and letting him pay her back if she's put something into it, especially if public transportation is as lousy there as it is here, and he needs the car for work to support himself. That's just an example. A mediator could help them sort out what is a reasonable request and what is not. However, I realize he's unemployed now, and if he's only been here seven months, he may be better off going back home. In this economy, he'll really struggle to get by alone here, unless, of course, he's already lined something else up.

[disconnection 4]

I think it would be better to share good ideas and opinions rather than these (I will call it non-smart) individual opinions

Fraud doesnt know a country, its every where from the middle east to here including Russia.

Hey man how is it going over there?? Actually i guess your friend is making a big mistake with trying to get some of her property. I am sure he did not contribute in this property by any means and so he has nothing to do with it and actually how long has he been working??

I guess he needs to talk to her and solve their problems if this marriage is honestly legitimate and if not then he just try his chances with the USCIS which I believe will not carry any good to him.

hopefully isA they will solve all the problems and happiness will prevail once again.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Beauty for Ashes

I dont ask anyone to help anyone screwing someone life, He asked my advise, and I come here to share and hear then combine what is said here and my own thought to give him the best advise, how he is going take it and what he will do is his own matter as none of us have control over it, may be he will understand and work it with her, may be he will leave to Egypt, or leave her and stay here, no one know, so please guys read as many as you can from the comments before jumping to conclusion that im here trying to help someone SCREW someone else life or im being pushy helping him, the fact he is an old friend doesnt mean im gonna support him doing the wrong thing, I seen alot of attackets on us muslims and being accused of manythings that is not true, but im one of the true muslims who is aware well of whats right and what is wrong, being said, I would appreciate leaving the fact he is from MENA or even from hell and dealing with the issue it self rather than just accusing.

None of us is innocent, and if he is doing the wrong thing we should ask that he be enlightened and listen, and if he wana do the wrong thing that GOD punish him and make us get rid of him and ppl who are like him that are everywhere, from MENA and outside MENA, Arabic and none-Arabic

It doesnt smell good for me as well, and so I advised to sit and talk together to define their issue and work on it

I made it clear that if he decided to leave, he didnt own anything since she is the one who made all of it before he even exist in her life

I talked with him last night, and from his talk, started feeling that I was wasting my time since all his talk was about what she is doing and what she is not without telling me the whole truth(I just feel it), I just ended my call saying that if he doesnt like the way their relation is, get out ask for divorce, dont expect any return, file to remove your conditions if you have what it takes to prove it was bonafide and move on, or just get divorce, go back to Egypt.

Um

Excuse me.. let me get this straight.. She helps him come to the USA, which took her probably 2 years and you are asking about her PROPERTY? I am horrified that you dont see what a piece of total garbage this guy is.. No decent man whose wife fought like hell to bring him here would ever ask about her house or anything else she owned.. So dont give me a damn lecture. I think the American women need to be protected from vipers like this snake. Its a fraud relation... he s looking for ways to hurt her and take things from her and if you are smart, you wont coach him.. Its just wrong and scum like this make it very hard for nice guys from there to be with their spouses

[yasser_ali1 1]

Well i really don't like to comment any topics like that .But that's really makes me sick .That American woman helped that guy to come to USA and for sure she waited long time for his butt .And now he is asking about his property !!

That's really disgusting .

And you got mad cause people here said Its a fraud relation !! Oh yeah for sure it is .I can not stand that.When a young man get involved with an old woman 99% its fraud relationship .

For example a young guy like you ''25 or 26 years old'' who is involved with almost a 50 years old woman .what the heck does that mean ?!!

Let me get this straight .Would you get involved with a 50 years old Egyptian woman'' your man is 50 years old ,non-muslim,maybe have children older than you .........?!

Would you even think about marry her even just thinking about marry her ?? Hell no and if you would say that would be a lieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[yasser_ali1 1]

Well i really don't like to comment any topics like that .But that's really makes me sick .That American woman helped that guy to come to USA and for sure she waited long time for his butt .And now he is asking about his property !!

That's really disgusting .

And you got mad cause people here said Its a fraud relation !! Oh yeah for sure it is .I can not stand that.When a young man get involved with an old woman 99% its fraud relationship .

For example a young guy like you ''25 or 26 years old'' who is involved with almost a 50 years old woman .what the heck does that mean ?!!

Let me get this straight .Would you get involved with a 50 years old Egyptian woman'' your mam is 50 years old ,non-muslim,maybe have children older than you .........?!

Would you even think about marry her even just thinking about marry her ?? Hell no and if you would say yes that would be a lieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well i really don't like to comment any topics like that .But that's really makes me sick .That American woman helped that guy to come to USA and for sure she waited long time for his butt .And now he is asking about his property !!

That's really disgusting .

And you got mad cause people here said Its a fraud relation !! Oh yeah for sure it is .I can not stand that.When a young man get involved with an old woman 99% its fraud relationship .

For example a young guy like you ''25 or 26 years old'' who is involved with almost a 50 years old woman .what the heck does that mean ?!!

Let me get this straight .Would you get involved with a 50 years old Egyptian woman'' your mam is 50 years old ,non-muslim,maybe have children older than you .........?!

Would you even think about marry her even just thinking about marry her ?? Hell no and if you would say yes that would be a lieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Thank you...coming from someone actually from there is alot easier to swallow than an American saying it.. And to tell you the truth, its even more heartbreaking when its a plot by the whole family.....like the man or young man is coached by relatives as to how to manipulate and hurt this "old woman" who honestly may be thinking she found the love of her whole life and that he is the answer to her prayers only to leave her or begin to severely physically and emotionally abuse her when he is getting close to getting or has gotten what they wanted.. These "older women" cannot see clearly Yasser and its not till they are in the throws of being screwed over that they wake up and often its too late. Imagine whats going through this poor Americans mind as her husband plots against her to take what little she has after she had to provide 3 years tax returns coupled with the expense of going over there all the time only to be left alone in the end.. Its very very very very very hard on the American, I can tell you. Very very very hard on the women that invested 3 4 5 years in relationships, 2 years of waiting sometimes with the process and AP to have the person who they thought was amazing turn into a total monster. Unfortuatnly you cannot tell the women in their 50s and late 40s anything while they are involved with someone half their age. They wont listen until they wake up broke and shattered..Its even worse when there are kids involved and they are emotionally affected by both the process and the break up that eventually happens

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

From the POV of a USC female who married a MENA man, when you've grown up in the U.S. system and know how easy it is to fall behind on bills and get in a world of a mess, as much as you may love and respect the man, it's very difficult to relinquish "control" to someone who doesn't know the system yet and has ideas about the way things ought to work here either because they worked that way back home or that's the way their immigrant friends tell them it should work here. And teaching an immigrant the cultural norms and etiquette can mean a lot of correction and comments, hopefully constructive, in the beginning. Short fuses are normal on both sides. Maybe all of that comes across as controlling, domineering, and bossy to some MENA men. It's a difficult balance, trying to show love and respect to someone, while at the same time trying to teach them how your culture works and protect your (plural, it is hoped) financial security from decisions that may seem very reckless to some, including this particular USC female, especially if she'd been burned in a previous marriage. Of course, we haven't heard her side, so I'm only making assumptions based on personal experience.

If he came into this for the right reasons, perhaps it's not too late for counseling to help them see each other's points of view more clearly so he'll better understand why she's felt the need to be controlling (if indeed she has been) and so she'll better understand his expectations and can decide whether they're reasonable for her. If he came into this for the wrong reasons, all the counseling in the world won't save the marriage, though it might do her some good.

Whats even worse is when the immigrant friends are total bozos with bad credit and are coaching the new arrival to make reckless decisions... including how to screw the American spouse to the best degree when you want to leave her. They literally will coach some of these guys and put all kinds of things in their heads and its worse when the American woman has a good head on her shoulders and a house and credit and half these new arrivals dont even have a house or good credit and thats after 5 years of being there etc. I completely agree about the controlling bossy etc. I dont think situation is a safe one for the American woman and if hes already inquiring about property she has and he is not even with her, it sounds like he setting her up for the kill.. A very unsafe situation for the american woman

[san diego 407]

Whats even worse is when the immigrant friends are total bozos with bad credit and are coaching the new arrival to make reckless decisions... including how to screw the American spouse to the best degree when you want to leave her. They literally will coach some of these guys and put all kinds of things in their heads and its worse when the American woman has a good head on her shoulders and a house and credit and half these new arrivals dont even have a house or good credit and thats after 5 years of being there etc. I completely agree about the controlling bossy etc. I dont think situation is a safe one for the American woman and if hes already inquiring about property she has and he is not even with her, it sounds like he setting her up for the kill.. A very unsafe situation for the american woman

If you saw my posts I am absolutely disgusted with this guy and think he should be reported to USCIS. HOWEVER, USC women of 50+ that date younger guys should understand what is going on... They set themselves up for it, so I would say they cannot blame anyone for the misfortune but themselves. While I completely agree with you on moral qualities of those males that do this as well as their friends, women set themselves up for it. If they had a little intelligence they would tell themselves: "Hmm... What the chances are that this 25 year old guy likes 55 year old woman? truly.. Hmmm..". This does not happen.. Not only that they set themselves up, these guys will end up on welfare and will be burden to the entire society. So, while I do feel bad as a human being for these poor ladies, I still think this is their own fault. For example, I am 36 year old guy married to 32 year old woman from Russia. This is normal. However, there is NO WAY (!) I would believe 18 year old woman that she truly loves me! No WAY. Different generation, etc.!

Edited August 30, 2011 by san diego

[yasser_ali1 1]

Thank you...coming from someone actually from there is alot easier to swallow than an American saying it.. And to tell you the truth, its even more heartbreaking when its a plot by the whole family.....like the man or young man is coached by relatives as to how to manipulate and hurt this "old woman" who honestly may be thinking she found the love of her whole life and that he is the answer to her prayers only to leave her or begin to severely physically and emotionally abuse her when he is getting close to getting or has gotten what they wanted.. These "older women" cannot see clearly Yasser and its not till they are in the throws of being screwed over that they wake up and often its too late. Imagine whats going through this poor Americans mind as her husband plots against her to take what little she has after she had to provide 3 years tax returns coupled with the expense of going over there all the time only to be left alone in the end.. Its very very very very very hard on the American, I can tell you. Very very very hard on the women that invested 3 4 5 years in relationships, 2 years of waiting sometimes with the process and AP to have the person who they thought was amazing turn into a total monster. Unfortuatnly you cannot tell the women in their 50s and late 40s anything while they are involved with someone half their age. They wont listen until they wake up broke and shattered..Its even worse when there are kids involved and they are emotionally affected by both the process and the break up that eventually happens

I really can't stand that kinda guys .It makes me sick .As you just said that poor lady waited so long for his butt .And they might spent alot of money to bring his butt here .Even if that woman does not meet his needs or whatever he asking about her PROPERTY cause they were fighting !!! So instead of talking to her and try to solve any problems they have he just wants another piece of that cake before he leaves !!! that's nasty .And Sadly i guess that's why he is here .He moved to USA looking for the American dream ,money,car,house.... and he did not move to here for his wife who waited for his butt long time . I have met more than 2 or 3 American guys at work .one of them asked me where am i from ?i told him I'm from Egypt .He says ohhh my cousin is Egyptian .I was like hhhhmmm how ? He says that his father is Egyptian .And he told me that once that Egyptian guy got his immigration papers done .He kissed her butt goodbye .Even he left his son and his mother raised him and stuff i was like ohhhh I'm sorry about that .The other 2 guys told me the same damn sad story about their cousins .It makes me sad and shy .Cause now some of these American thinking Egyptian sucks ! Egyptians will marry American women just for green card and money that's it .So back to the topic a guy like that guy here makes all of Egyptian looks bad .You know what am talking about .He is a bad example for Egyptians .And i really agree with some people here she really should report his butt .

Maybe that story right here is a good one you know why ?! cause after some American women will read it they should thinking about what they doing ? are they doing the right thing by getting involved with those guys ......?

Damn that guy makes me sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk i'm out of here