Is this offensive?

[Fandango 1,439]

what fcuking dumbasses...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

At church yesterday, The priest brought up the statement of that ruler Pope Benedict quoted, He's trying to make a point VIOLENCE under the name of religion is not the answers. JIHAD extremist to go and beheaded people, kill people in the name of Allah is not the answer, God is about Love and Forgiveness, Unity, loves your neighbor, Christian had their own period of the cursader, but they went away from the old ways, I have a lot of nice muslims friends, travel around quiet a bit, the average muslim is peaceful and non violent, it's the EXTREMISTS that are defacated the name of the Prophet, and Putting ISLAM in such a bad posture.

Quite right.

I read the context of the quotation from the Pope's address in Regensburg, and it is pretty clear that he was quoting the Emperor to illustrate the point that Islamists are going against the teaching "there is no compulsion in religion". The problem is that he didn't make clear that he didn't agree with the first part of the quotation: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,..." The scond part, "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached" is his main point.

But it does bare the hypocracy of those who say over and over that Islam is a religion of peace, and these people:

Just once I'd like to see something affront muslims, and then muslims say "that's wrong, but we've got more important things to worry about". Instead there will be protests and threats and firebombings.

As someone else pointed out the paper that the pope quoted is a sophisticated bit of work. It's worth reading in full if you have a taste for such things.

Still given the level of depth and extremely subtle way he manages to imply that, unlike Christianity, Islam and rationality are incompatible, and the Pope's proven track record as a hard-liner, I find it hard to believe he didn't know exactly what he was doing and all those effigy burning, church looting, nun murdering fanatics have fallen into his trap.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

Perhaps its a clever irony.

[Mirorgate 0]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

Perhaps its a clever irony.

ooohhhh.... kinda like Alanis Morrisette form of Irony? Like her song??

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

Perhaps its a clever irony.

ooohhhh.... kinda like Alanis Morrisette form of Irony? Like her song??

Murphy's Law. Its ironic that all the situations she describes in the song are not actually irony - but I doubt she knew that.

[Mirorgate 0]

Murphy's Law. Its ironic that all the situations she describes in the song are not actually irony - but I doubt she knew that.

probably not... since she only used 1 case of actual irony in that song.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Unfortunately this man represents the church and he knows what and why he says what he say. He is not just a man. And I totally I agree that not all Catholics or Christians believe in what he says, the pressure is not on the western world or Christians is on their leaders who are desperately trying to poison the bridges between cultures and religion. The pope ignored history and acted as if he is innocent and people took his speech out of context.

He ignored the 500 years of crusade in the middle east when his church and by the name of God killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims and eastern christens and stole their land and wealth for over hundred years. the pope ignored when in the last century the over hundred years when the west occupied the Arab/ Muslim land and killed hundred of thousands, I never heard an apology or a comment for that.

He also ignored the Holocaust which happened in Europe and in his own country killing innocent people and again in the name of God and because they are different. Any by the way the Jew sought refuge with many Muslim Khalif's (leaders) when they ran away from the discrimination and the killing that was waged against them in Europe- go the National Museum of History in NY and read the testaments from many of the Jewish rabaies.

He claims that Islam forces itself by war, please let him or anyone else go back to history and count the number of wars between Muslims and others and tell me where it happened; in Europe or in the East? And who moved armies to fight whom.

The pope ignored the many years of killing his church initiated against the Eastern Church killing many thousands of their leaders unless they submit to the pope in Rome.

And if Muslims are so cruel and forceful, how come we still have many Christians living among us in the Arab World with their own churches and getting the full support from Muslim /Arab government. As a matter of fact we have an entire country (Lebanon) who by the constitution must have a Christian president.

And No we do not want the western world to be sensitive to our needs or around us or stop your celebrations. Your religion and celebrations do not offend us as matter of fact we Muslims believe equally in Muses, Jesus and Mohammed; they are all brothers and messenger of God. What offended us is what some the western leaders and recently church leaders lie about our religion and prophet. And what offend us more is when they play innocent and ignorant.

I urge you to read more and do your own research

The Crusades were a response to 300 years of Muslim invasions and oppression. The Near East, Middle East and North Africa, the cradle of Christianity, used to be Christian civilizations, till the Muslims wiped them out. They almost did the same in Europe.

You clearly do not know much about history....the places you mentioned were never the cradel of chirisianity... Muslims/Arabs lived in these places before Christainity existed even the pope does not agree with you on this one. and can you please give me the exact names of battles / wars/ occupation that muslims inflected for 300 years.....

Uh...sure...perhaps I don't know much about your revision of history So, Christianity was born in western Europe after the 7th century? And the Muslims were living peacefully in the Middle East and Asia Minor in harmony with their non-Muslims neighbors, having been in those lands from time immemorial? And then a bunch of Christians in Europe decided to invade and conquer the peace-loving Muslims without the slightest provocation? The Muslims had never even heard of the concept of swords till the evil Christians came along??

In actual fact, Christianity was born in Judea around 30A.D (six centuries before Islam), rapidly spread to Syria, Asia Minor and Egypt (the Near East), Greece, and Italy, and by the 3rd century (still four centuries before Islam) had spread at least throughout the Mediterranean world. Major Christian centers were in Jerusalem, Antioch (Syria), Ephesus (and several other cities in Asia Minor, now Turkey), Alexandria (Egypt) Corinth (Greece), Thessolonica (Macedonia), Rome (Italy), and Hippo (now in Algeria), all by the 4th century, and most by the early 2nd century. Christianity was spread without force, by verbal persuasion, at least till the time of Constantine. You might find the following map (#132), from the site Stina posted, helpful:

Regarding Muslim wars and conquests, here's a good place to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest

[zzerous 0]

Unfortunately this man represents the church and he knows what and why he says what he say. He is not just a man. And I totally I agree that not all Catholics or Christians believe in what he says, the pressure is not on the western world or Christians is on their leaders who are desperately trying to poison the bridges between cultures and religion. The pope ignored history and acted as if he is innocent and people took his speech out of context.

He ignored the 500 years of crusade in the middle east when his church and by the name of God killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims and eastern christens and stole their land and wealth for over hundred years. the pope ignored when in the last century the over hundred years when the west occupied the Arab/ Muslim land and killed hundred of thousands, I never heard an apology or a comment for that.

He also ignored the Holocaust which happened in Europe and in his own country killing innocent people and again in the name of God and because they are different. Any by the way the Jew sought refuge with many Muslim Khalif's (leaders) when they ran away from the discrimination and the killing that was waged against them in Europe- go the National Museum of History in NY and read the testaments from many of the Jewish rabaies.

He claims that Islam forces itself by war, please let him or anyone else go back to history and count the number of wars between Muslims and others and tell me where it happened; in Europe or in the East? And who moved armies to fight whom.

The pope ignored the many years of killing his church initiated against the Eastern Church killing many thousands of their leaders unless they submit to the pope in Rome.

And if Muslims are so cruel and forceful, how come we still have many Christians living among us in the Arab World with their own churches and getting the full support from Muslim /Arab government. As a matter of fact we have an entire country (Lebanon) who by the constitution must have a Christian president.

And No we do not want the western world to be sensitive to our needs or around us or stop your celebrations. Your religion and celebrations do not offend us as matter of fact we Muslims believe equally in Muses, Jesus and Mohammed; they are all brothers and messenger of God. What offended us is what some the western leaders and recently church leaders lie about our religion and prophet. And what offend us more is when they play innocent and ignorant.

I urge you to read more and do your own research

The Crusades were a response to 300 years of Muslim invasions and oppression. The Near East, Middle East and North Africa, the cradle of Christianity, used to be Christian civilizations, till the Muslims wiped them out. They almost did the same in Europe.

You clearly do not know much about history....the places you mentioned were never the cradel of chirisianity... Muslims/Arabs lived in these places before Christainity existed even the pope does not agree with you on this one. and can you please give me the exact names of battles / wars/ occupation that muslims inflected for 300 years.....

Yes in those areas there were Christian settlements prior. And Christianity started in Israel and was spread by word of mouth and by preachers to surrounding Arab areas and further out. At that time there were no Muslims, and many Arabs believed in pagan religions. The New Testament has many books named after cities in that region that all had a early growth of Christianity. Islam as a named religion did not even exist until hundreds of years after Christianity was started. I'm not going to say every inch of that area was Christian, but there was no Islam back then either. I am not expert on the crusades, but I just wanted to point out a few things.

http://studylight.org/se/maps/

Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem in Palestine and there is no doubt about that....the Romans (before they became Christian) were occupying that region at that time (they were in (Palestine, Jordan, Syria etc)...after Christ his students left the religion running away for their lives and then after many years the Emperor of Rome (Constantine) converted to Christianity and took it to Rome where the Pope is now. Arabs the original owners of that Land never followed Christianity as a religion (as you said they were Pagan). Arabs are the descendants of Abraham and his son Ishmael lived there before the Romans and before Christ.

As for the crusades and the occupation of England, France and Itay to Muslim and Arab land in the 20th centurey for more than 80 years, I am sure you can google it and find out more about it, it is what it is.

[dani_christine 0]

[homesick_american 1]

What do you think..............

Take a vote, yes or no (NO MAYBE!)

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

pope 9/14/07

P

Maybe to a Muslim, but I'm an atheist; so no, it doesn't offend me at all.

[zzerous 0]

Unfortunately this man represents the church and he knows what and why he says what he say. He is not just a man. And I totally I agree that not all Catholics or Christians believe in what he says, the pressure is not on the western world or Christians is on their leaders who are desperately trying to poison the bridges between cultures and religion. The pope ignored history and acted as if he is innocent and people took his speech out of context.

He ignored the 500 years of crusade in the middle east when his church and by the name of God killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims and eastern christens and stole their land and wealth for over hundred years. the pope ignored when in the last century the over hundred years when the west occupied the Arab/ Muslim land and killed hundred of thousands, I never heard an apology or a comment for that.

He also ignored the Holocaust which happened in Europe and in his own country killing innocent people and again in the name of God and because they are different. Any by the way the Jew sought refuge with many Muslim Khalif's (leaders) when they ran away from the discrimination and the killing that was waged against them in Europe- go the National Museum of History in NY and read the testaments from many of the Jewish rabaies.

He claims that Islam forces itself by war, please let him or anyone else go back to history and count the number of wars between Muslims and others and tell me where it happened; in Europe or in the East? And who moved armies to fight whom.

The pope ignored the many years of killing his church initiated against the Eastern Church killing many thousands of their leaders unless they submit to the pope in Rome.

And if Muslims are so cruel and forceful, how come we still have many Christians living among us in the Arab World with their own churches and getting the full support from Muslim /Arab government. As a matter of fact we have an entire country (Lebanon) who by the constitution must have a Christian president.

And No we do not want the western world to be sensitive to our needs or around us or stop your celebrations. Your religion and celebrations do not offend us as matter of fact we Muslims believe equally in Muses, Jesus and Mohammed; they are all brothers and messenger of God. What offended us is what some the western leaders and recently church leaders lie about our religion and prophet. And what offend us more is when they play innocent and ignorant.

I urge you to read more and do your own research

The Crusades were a response to 300 years of Muslim invasions and oppression. The Near East, Middle East and North Africa, the cradle of Christianity, used to be Christian civilizations, till the Muslims wiped them out. They almost did the same in Europe.

You clearly do not know much about history....the places you mentioned were never the cradel of chirisianity... Muslims/Arabs lived in these places before Christainity existed even the pope does not agree with you on this one. and can you please give me the exact names of battles / wars/ occupation that muslims inflected for 300 years.....

Uh...sure...perhaps I don't know much about your revision of history So, Christianity was born in western Europe after the 7th century? And the Muslims were living peacefully in the Middle East and Asia Minor in harmony with their non-Muslims neighbors, having been in those lands from time immemorial? And then a bunch of Christians in Europe decided to invade and conquer the peace-loving Muslims without the slightest provocation? The Muslims had never even heard of the concept of swords till the evil Christians came along??

In actual fact, Christianity was born in Judea around 30A.D (six centuries before Islam), rapidly spread to Syria, Asia Minor and Egypt (the Near East), Greece, and Italy, and by the 3rd century (still four centuries before Islam) had spread at least throughout the Mediterranean world. Major Christian centers were in Jerusalem, Antioch (Syria), Ephesus (and several other cities in Asia Minor, now Turkey), Alexandria (Egypt) Corinth (Greece), Thessolonica (Macedonia), Rome (Italy), and Hippo (now in Algeria), all by the 4th century, and most by the early 2nd century. Christianity was spread without force, by verbal persuasion, at least till the time of Constantine. You might find the following map (#132), from the site Stina posted, helpful:

Regarding Muslim wars and conquests, here's a good place to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest

But you expect me and others to believe your version of History....look at your LINK that you provided and tell me where did Muslims fight Romans/Christians.....is it in Europe or in Syria? The Romans were in Palestine, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt even before Christ as occupiers of the land. And the same occupation still continues.

We fought their occupation to gain our land back....most of these fights were over Arab/Muslim land Muslims never wages an organized war against Europe to demolish Christianity. You provide a biased read of History and ignoring the basic idea behind the Crusades...the church were selling their followers papers to guarantee their entrance to heave if they kill the infields (Muslims).

Arabs the original owners of that Land never followed Christianity as a religion (as you said they were Pagan). Arabs are the descendants of Abraham and his son Ishmael lived there before the Romans and before Christ.

And for you to claim the Christianity was spread by mouth of word and to claim that

" Major Christian centers were in Jerusalem, Antioch (Syria), Ephesus (and several other cities in Asia Minor, now Turkey), Alexandria (Egypt) Corinth (Greece), Thessalonica (Macedonia), Rome (Italy), and Hippo (now in Algeria), all by the 4th century, and most by the early 2nd century." is just appalling. Most followers the Christ were either killed or ran away from the religion; the Romans were killing them on site. When prophet Mohammed came, there were few Arab Christians mainly in Syria and in Bethlehem in Palestine but the rest of the area were without a religion and were controlled forcefully by the Romans ( cannot you check the Roman ruins in the Middles east ( Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq etc). But you were right on the dot when you said “Christianity was spread without force, by verbal persuasion, at least till the time of Constantine” Till Constantine their Christianity till he came he spread Christianity by the Sword not because he was interested in Salvation but because of greed.

As for the Turks they had their strong army even before coming to Islam and they were in continues war with Muslims and attacking them at many fronts from the North, just like the Jankis Khan (Tatar) who came from Asia and destroyed the Muslim Khalif and took over Iraq, Syria, and was only defected by the Muslim Leader in Egypt. Most of the Turks and before them the Tatar accepted Islam over the years and they themselves led the battle with Mohamed Bin Qasim to take back Istanbul from Byzantine, Istanbul is the Capital of Turkey now, their own land not yours not the pope.

Muslims never chased The Turks or Tatar back to their land to revenge the many years of oppression, Just like what the Muslims did with the Crusades when they get defeated by Salah Eldeen….the Muslim leader who is admired by his adversary for what he did after he regained Jerusalem. Salah Eldeen allowed them to peacefully leave on their ships to where they cam from, he was able to kill them and do exactly what the crusaders did to Arabs/Muslims when they took Jerusalem from Muslims.

Anyway, the main point you were trying to prove is that Crusades were just retaliation against Muslims wages wars on Europe, which you have deviated from. By going to your LINK I do not see any “Muslim Conquest” waged against England, France, Italy..Europe Bethlehem in Palestine…The one that was against the Byzantines were wars in Syria which is an Arab Land, the one that was against the Persian Empire (Now IRAN) was South of Baghdad in IRAQ an Arab/ Muslim country. I never claimed that Muslims/Arabs never engaged in wars to defend them selves, Islam ask Muslims to fight to defend their land and sacrifices everything for it

If Islam was forceful and spread by the sward how come people who were forced to join Islam did not convert back once they have the freedom to choose? And who is now under attack: Muslims or Christians?

P.S. I hope to the people who read this to understand that I do not think or believe that Crusaders and Christianity are one and the same.

[homesick_american 1]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

Unfortunately not. People marched with that sign and similar others in London during the 'Mohammed cartoon' kerfuffle. They marched on the BBC even though the BBC didn't show the cartoons.

It also took the police a while to even make noises about arresting these people who were CLEARLY guilty of public order offenses. I doubt anyone's actually been convicted; that would never happen in PC nanny state Britain.

[rclouse 0]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

It was from the "Cartoon Controversy" protests in London back towards the beginning of the year. There were many gems among the signs, but that one was the shiniest.

[homesick_american 1]

That has to be a joke. Maybe the guy can't read english and his sign writer has a wicked sense of humor. I hope...

It was from the "Cartoon Controversy" protests in London back towards the beginning of the year. There were many gems among the signs, but that one was the shiniest.

Don't forget the guy who dressed up in a suicide bomber costume.