Law grads accuse schools of misleading students with stats

[sandinista! 1,816]

True, this. At the pediatric office I work at, the drs there (gasp) bring in their own children to be seen by other drs when they're sick too. These aren't n00b drs either, they've each been in practice for at least 15 years, and can competently diagnose an ear infection in their own kid. Nevertheless, their kids all have their own pediatrician, that isn't mom.

There was a similar case to this one though, a few years back, with some Western Culinary Institute grads here in Portland suing the school because they thought they'd be executive chefs or something, immediately upon graduation, rather than still doing grunt kitchen work at applebee's for less than 20k/yr. I don't think that case has even been decided yet though.

Pssst -- even lawyers need lawyers. When I got divorced from my ex, who was also a lawyer, we both hired attorneys even though the split was amicable. Why? Neither of us were specialists in family law. Although I think this case is going nowhere, since they got substantially what they contracted for when they signed their acceptance letters (i.e. a legal education), it would be foolish to do this pro se if they actually want to have any chance at making it go anywhere. They're baby lawyers and they don't know squat.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I don't think the students have really got a chance here. For one thing, it's not like they can give the law degree back. For another, I think it would be very difficult to prove that post-graduation employment data was the deciding factor that made you attend that school. And even if you do prove that, you have to prove that the data was deliberately misleading.

Also, why do a bunch of unemployed law grads need a law firm to represent them? You'd think they could work that out on their own. It seems this is proof that the students are just themselves worthless as they don't even chose to hire themselves.

Because there qualities are such that they either haven't got the talent and drive to do so or they lack the legal cred. Nemo iudex sua causa, how do you think that the judges that teach in law school are going to rule?

I'm curious as to how this law suit plays out. Will they settle out of court or drag it on until the plaintiffs give up.

War of attrition usually is a tactic of corporate defendants but it will probably be thrown out tout de suite.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Excuse the all-caps, si man:

Yet you forgot the gowns.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

On another note, looking at the OP it looks like the BAR is cracking down on schools to post honest numbers as far as the job market is concerned.

If you matriculate at Bozo Hall as opposed to Boalt Hall, you can make an educated guess which program will give you better job prospects. Cooley et al. sell the dream and know that most of their grads won't end up in the legal profession.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

If you matriculate at Bozo Hall as opposed to Boalt Hall, you can make an educated guess which program will give you better job prospects. Cooley et al. sell the dream and know that most of their grads won't end up in the legal profession.

The LSAT is part of the problem. If you learn how to solve a logic problem, and have a modicum of intelligence, you can do well enough on the LSAT to enter a Cooley or NYLS with a decent GPA from a mediocre university. The LSAT is a load of horse manure -- you aren't solving logic problems as a 1L, although you do need to use logic and lateral thinking. Reading comprehension and a writing exercise would be a far better test of true ability to survive and thrive. I managed to do just fine at law school in England without taking the LSAT, and my fellow students were just as bright and ambitious as one would hope to find in law school over here. At risk of sounding snotty, there are people going to law school who really shouldn't be if their intention is to practice law. If you're studying for a JD for personal enrichment or professional advancement in another field, fair enough. But these students almost certainly knew that they were attending something two steps above a diploma mill and shouldn't be surprised when they're not minting it post-graduation.

[Ban Hammer 13,403]

Or they could just continue their careers as strippers.

the lap dance is so much better when the stripper is crying...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

the lap dance is so much better when the stripper is crying...

You refer that to when they are laughing?

Seriously...the idea of out of work attorneys due to lack of interest is probably one of the better things that could happen to this country. Maybe we could run all the lawyer's jobs out of the country like we did the manufacturing and telephone answering...oh wait, NM

One of the good things about government healthcare is if they ever do it they wil absolutely HAVE to have tort reform to eliminate all these lawsuits and expensive "defensive medicine". It will more or less eliminate malpractice suits. When the government has to pay for that nonsense it is going to stop.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

the lap dance is so much better when the stripper is crying...

Did you forget to take your Beano again?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

If it please the court, in my respectful submission, the LSAT really tests one thing, one's ability to take the LSAT. Those "schools" are ABA accredited but they really aren't interested in getting top-notch students, only mediocre ones. They give out scholarships like water in an effort to attract people of a higher caliber because they full well know that the great bulk of students are marginal at best and will almost certainly washout at the end of first-year, in essence the marginal students subsidize the best students. Most folks see some legal drama and think that they could do it. For all the Jerry MacGuires, Benjamin Matlocks, Horace Rumpoles, Wilfred Robarts, Alan Shores that are portrayed on the screen, we never see all the scutwork that lawyers do and how much effort it takes to prosecute a matter that you don't care about in the least. Getting a law degree to pad a resume is fine but very few lawyers who engage in actual hard-core litigation make anything approaching those law graduates who practice in more clerical fields. The IPO types make many times more money than a criminal lawyer and if going to law school is indeed the refuge that it is said to be in hard economic times then one must accept the fact that some fields of law just don't pay. There really is no such thing as a diploma mill in my estimation, although if you graduate from Cooley your chances of a nice articiling job are certainly not going to be the same as if you graduate from UMichigan. Internships are also going to be more difficult but if you are ready to take on tons of pro bono work and expect very little in return from financial point of view, then you will get a look from some of the bigger firms. Name means everything in the legal world so that Harvard degree is worth it but any profession that has a journal put out by a guy named Chitty guy can't be too selective, can it?

[Ban Hammer 13,403]

Did you forget to take your Beano again?

not familiar with that song, eh?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

not familiar with that song, eh?

No, and I stiil refuse to pull your finger.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Excuse the all-caps, si man:

THE COLLEGE GRADUATE WITH A SCIENCE DEGREE ASKS, "WHY DOES IT WORK?"

THE GRADUATE WITH AN ENGINEERING DEGREE ASKS, "HOW DOES IT WORK?"

THE GRADUATE WITH AN ECONOMICS DEGREE ASKS, "HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?"

THE GRADUATE WITH A LIBERAL-ARTS DEGREE ASKS, "WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT?"

Well, this here liberal arts degree graduate has economics and finance graduates work for him. And some of them are not all that promising, no man.

I'm a little old school on that front - don't really care what fcuking degree you have. I care whether you care enough to do a good job.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Well, this here liberal arts degree graduate has economics and finance graduates work for him. And some of them are not all that promising, no man.

I'm a little old school on that front - don't really care what fcuking degree you have. I care whether you care enough to do a good job.

I agree, degrees don't mean Jack.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I have a GED if that means anything.