Job Creation and Immigration

[Karee 4,191]

I was contract at Verizon for 2.5 years. I was the only American on a team of 10 people here in the US, and another 5 or so in India working for VDSI (Indian software development arm of Verizon.) All of the people here were H1B from India. I'm pretty sure the only reason I got the job was that I spent a good amount of time in India. The software development was sub-par at best with everything being written in .NET which pretty much sucks.

They are good folks, and I have no issue with them personally. I did notice they would put 5 people in a 1 bedroom apartment and share a car. This way they could send most of their income back to family in India. Also, VZ would work them long hours. What are they gonna do about that? Complain.. I doubt it.

They did complain about having to pay FICA and Medicare taxes since most of them will never see that unless they become citizens.

I guess the dilema is do we allow H1Bs to come here where they at least pay taxes and contribute somewhat to the economy, or just ship it all to Asia.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I was contract at Verizon for 2.5 years. I was the only American on a team of 10 people here in the US, and another 5 or so in India working for VDSI (Indian software development arm of Verizon.) All of the people here were H1B from India. I'm pretty sure the only reason I got the job was that I spent a good amount of time in India. The software development was sub-par at best with everything being written in .NET which pretty much sucks.

They are good folks, and I have no issue with them personally. I did notice they would put 5 people in a 1 bedroom apartment and share a car. This way they could send most of their income back to family in India. Also, VZ would work them long hours. What are they gonna do about that? Complain.. I doubt it.

They did complain about having to pay FICA and Medicare taxes since most of them will never see that unless they become citizens.

I guess the dilema is do we allow H1Bs to come here where they at least pay taxes and contribute somewhat to the economy, or just ship it all to Asia.

Or the third option. The one where the US company hires Americans. Yes it is old fashioned.

[Karee 4,191]

Or the third option. The one where the US company hires Americans. Yes it is old fashioned.

Tougher to exploit Americans.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Tougher to exploit Americans.

They used to hire college kids from all around the country to work the hotels and fish cannery's here in Alaska. Now they hire foreign kids for the fact they can pay them below minimum wage and they don't pay them over time even though those people work 16 hour shifts.

Big business along with the politicians have sold this country out.

[Karee 4,191]

They used to hire college kids from all around the country to work the hotels and fish cannery's here in Alaska. Now they hire foreign kids for the fact they can pay them below minimum wage and they don't pay them over time even though those people work 16 hour shifts.

Big business along with the politicians have sold this country out.

Yeah I knew a few of the H1B folks that would go months sometimes without a paycheck because their employers didn't pay them. Even though they worked at VZ, they didn't work for VZ on paper. Since these contract companies sponsored them to come here, there really wasn't much they could do. Complain and get fired and a ticket back to Mumbai, if that. The whole thing is a scam.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Potential consumer...yada yada.

Reality says...large corporations are seeking cheap foreign labor.

Then you agree with RJ...its the roots of capitalism. That wasn't so hard was it.

[Ready to do it 101]

Joining the conversation late... perhaps a solution would be

a) The US end all social programs which would force EVERYONE to get off their butt and find a job, and then

b) The US gov't takes a very large chunk of the money saved from ending all social programs and gives incentives to corporations to hire "Americans" at higher wages. I.e. US govt offers incentive to corporations to increase wages across the board... perhaps on some sort of curve favoring the bottom end increasing the lowest wages the most, and incentives to signficantly increase employees.

In essence, the US govt would foot ALL the costs of corporations to increase employment and increase wages for a specified period of time (a few years). In turn, this "should" significantly decrease the unemployment rate, increase production with more workers, put more money in people's pockets which will increase demand for products made by all of these new workers that have been integrated back into the workforce. The real problem the US has is many are simpling sucking off the US govt ####### by way of all of these social programs. There is no incentive for so many folks to even look for a job or stop having babies, etc. Further, no one is spending. Lastly, corporations have become so lean that they are sitting on record piles of cash with no need to hire nor produce more, especially considering the unknowns of future tax overhauls, insurance requirements for employees etc. The best solution out there is end all social programs and give it to corporations to influence them to hire workers and raise wages AFTER they have met certain criteria. In turn, no one will be on welfare and more Americans will have $$$ to spend. Who wins? America

Potential consumer...yada yada.

Reality says...large corporations are seeking cheap foreign labor. Now is it jobs for Americans, or jobs for foreigners? And save the possible future consumer spiel. We heard enough of that over the years from the same government that has brought this country to it's knees. And I'm not just talking about last months budget drama.

How about we put Americans first for once. Like all those Americans that want to put food on their table, pay their bills, and raise a family. Those same Americans that want to send their children to college so that they can get a decent paying job without being under cut by some cheap foreign labor.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Joining the conversation late... perhaps a solution would be

a) The US end all social programs which would force EVERYONE to get off their butt and find a job, and then

b) The US gov't takes a very large chunk of the money saved from ending all social programs and gives incentives to corporations to hire "Americans" at higher wages. I.e. US govt offers incentive to corporations to increase wages across the board... perhaps on some sort of curve favoring the bottom end increasing the lowest wages the most, and incentives to signficantly increase employees.

In essence, the US govt would foot ALL the costs of corporations to increase employment and increase wages for a specified period of time (a few years). In turn, this "should" significantly decrease the unemployment rate, increase production with more workers, put more money in people's pockets which will increase demand for products made by all of these new workers that have been integrated back into the workforce. The real problem the US has is many are simpling sucking off the US govt ####### by way of all of these social programs. There is no incentive for so many folks to even look for a job or stop having babies, etc. Further, no one is spending. Lastly, corporations have become so lean that they are sitting on record piles of cash with no need to hire nor produce more, especially considering the unknowns of future tax overhauls, insurance requirements for employees etc. The best solution out there is end all social programs and give it to corporations to influence them to hire workers and raise wages AFTER they have met certain criteria. In turn, no one will be on welfare and more Americans will have $$$ to spend. Who wins? America

Or they government could put an end to the bogus worker visa's and enforce the laws it already has on the books. I don't think it's going to bankrupt the corporations that will be forced to abide by the labor laws of the United States and pay minimum wage and over time.

There's greedy, and then there's just plain criminal greedy.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Why_Me

[rika60607 215]

Oh well. Let's say I am in charge of a lean company. Government ends all the social programs. I go yay! I can slash my workers' salaries and benefits even further, because guess what - I have an endless supply of the willing to replace them.

Just as my workers start quitting at the news (or with a little nudge from my HR), I hire new people at the minimum wage and government pays their salaries (or most part of their salaries)!

Woohoo! Thanks government!!!! I have free labor now, and they won't complain if I work them overtime without pay - there is always more people willing to replace them!!!

Joining the conversation late... perhaps a solution would be

a) The US end all social programs which would force EVERYONE to get off their butt and find a job, and then

b) The US gov't takes a very large chunk of the money saved from ending all social programs and gives incentives to corporations to hire "Americans" at higher wages. I.e. US govt offers incentive to corporations to increase wages across the board... perhaps on some sort of curve favoring the bottom end increasing the lowest wages the most, and incentives to signficantly increase employees.

In essence, the US govt would foot ALL the costs of corporations to increase employment and increase wages for a specified period of time (a few years). In turn, this "should" significantly decrease the unemployment rate, increase production with more workers, put more money in people's pockets which will increase demand for products made by all of these new workers that have been integrated back into the workforce. The real problem the US has is many are simpling sucking off the US govt ####### by way of all of these social programs. There is no incentive for so many folks to even look for a job or stop having babies, etc. Further, no one is spending. Lastly, corporations have become so lean that they are sitting on record piles of cash with no need to hire nor produce more, especially considering the unknowns of future tax overhauls, insurance requirements for employees etc. The best solution out there is end all social programs and give it to corporations to influence them to hire workers and raise wages AFTER they have met certain criteria. In turn, no one will be on welfare and more Americans will have $$$ to spend. Who wins? America

[peejay 327]

Then you agree with RJ...its the roots of capitalism. That wasn't so hard was it.

Capitalism is just like any other human endevour. Rules or lack of rules determine how it plays out. Blaming capitalism for bad public policies set by the government is putting the blame in the wrong place. The root cause is in the failure of government to set policy that is in the best interests of the citizenry. The corporations will get away with what they can if they are allowed to. Just like some people do.

[justashooter 430]

So you think that the corporations should be able to exploit the US immigration system yes? It's good to see where you stand on this subject.

for their crowd it's all about importing more people like them, regardless of the final cost. it is based on a social need to feel more "normal", achievable in their eyes not by adopting the US culture, but by further adulterating it with their "kind".

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

for their crowd it's all about importing more people like them, regardless of the final cost. it is based on a social need to feel more "normal", achievable in their eyes not by adopting the US culture, but by further adulterating it with their "kind".

Agreed 100%.

It's bad enough that we have these laws that are meant to help corporations undermine US labor laws, while cutting out the American worker, but it's even worse when you see people trying to defend this bogus visa law. In fact it's sickening to say the least.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

A number of posts containing personal attacks have been removed. Please focus your comments on the topic itself instead of trying to take pot shots at another because you disagree with their position.

[mawilson 2,133]

Potential consumer...yada yada.

Really, they don't consume much. They wire most of their earnings back to Mexico and use the rest to buy Corona (imported from Mexico).

[Ready to do it 101]

Do corporations have an endless supply of "good" workers willing to replace anyone they cut? I seriously doubt that. However, if you feel that a coorporation would slash salaries and benefits when given an incentive to do the opposite then that means the incentive isn't great enough and needs to be increased.

One of the things (there are many things) that got the US into this mess is Wall Street. We went through the dot com era in the 90's where companies were exploding with growth and company's stock prices were shooting up at unprecedented levels for no reason. Somewhere along the line the dot com era ended and analysts started actually looking at PE ratios etc. Because of this, corporations had to cut the fat. They learned to produce the same with 20,30, or 40% less workforce. I remember entering the workforce in the early 90's... my first job, excited about a 401k with great health care benefits, etc. Fast forward to the early 2000's... everyone on pins and needles that they are going to be the next casualty cut from the payroll. Companies were laying people off daily for years in order to become lean to appease wall street. Companies had to do everything possible to increase the bottom line for their shareholders at the expense of the American workforce.

Fastforward to today. I'm really not as concerned with the 9% unemployment rate as I am with the extinction of a middle class. In my opinion, the government needs to do something significant to raise the middle 70%. I.e. I'm not concerned with the top 20% and I'm not concerned with the bottom 10%. I'm concerned with the 70% in the middle. The government needs to do something to keep the middle 70% employed, with good salaries so people will be able to spend and save. If they don't come up with a solution and no one spends and no salaries are increased, no one will buy homes and the entire system will fall apart. IMO the entire system has fallen apart as there are just way too many folks sucking on the government's #######. There must be a solution to stop this and to improve the life of the middle 70%.

So to answer that question of "Are there a good supply of workers willing to replace anyone cut?" I'm not so sure of that, but I am sure that salaries need to be bumped up and people need more money in their pockets to spend. Handouts from the govt didn't work. Why not see if corporations could get us on the road to recovery with some real bottom line incentives from the US govt helping the corporations boost salaries, etc.

I can slash my workers' salaries and benefits even further, because guess what - I have an endless supply of the willing to replace them.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Ready to do it