Continuing to Dumb Down America: Failing Schools Except from Testing

[scandal 951]

Jen, we have people in this country as demonstrated in this thread, who believe that public education is unconstitutional and would love nothing more than to see it completely dismantled on a Federal level. So it makes all the more difficult to succeed, however that may be defined. It's like being in a life raft with someone who keeps frantically saying, "We're doomed! We're doomed!" If only we could just throw them overboard.

They don't just say "We're doomed!". They actively try to poke holes in the life raft with a box cutter.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They don't just say "We're doomed!". They actively try to poke holes in the life raft with a box cutter.

So true.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

They don't just say "We're doomed!". They actively try to poke holes in the life raft with a box cutter.

They're just trying to think outside the box, so they'll be ready when they start living in one.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Right on.

Also, the people making up laws about education should be people who are actively involved in classrooms. NCLB was and is a joke. Every single dedicated and qualified teacher knows this to be fact. You cannot rate a school/classroom/pod/team/teacher based on standardized test scores. Well, you CAN, but it's ridiculous.

For everyone who complains about public education and who blame the teachers -- would you do their jobs? Best case scenario: you have 35 to 150 students a day (depending on whether you are primary or secondary), you have text books, and ample supplies (but you bought most of the supplies yourself), you have actively involved parents, and you have students who want to learn.

Normal scenario: same numbers, you are still providing your own supplies and sometimes you have to figure out how to get textbooks, the percentage of involved parents is very limited, students are either not interested, can't stay awake (for whatever reason), are interested but need additional help they can't get and you can't provide, you have administrators breathing down your neck to fall into line on matters that take up far too much of your teaching time and have no benefit for the classroom, you rarely have time for a bathroom break, much less a lunch break, you bring your work home with you in the evenings and work late into the night, you arrive early to prepare before school, you have -- on average in the nation -- a Master's degree in your subject area and/or M.Ed or MAT, you get little to no respect and you are paid ####### wages. AND people think you don't do a good enough job and you get paid too much (or, if you're in Wisconsin -- they just take away all your collective bargaining rights).

Is it any wonder that public schools are in dire shape? Is it any wonder that many excellent, qualified, dedicated teachers either leave the profession or leave public education?

Instead of having a 100% passing rate on a BS standardized test that does nothing to adequately monitor or measure our students' knowledge and does nothing to prepare them for college or life after high school -- how about let parents and teachers work together to find solutions to these issues? How about letting people who are in the classroom have a say in what the Dept of Education does?

/rant over

Does wearing a dunce cap qualify?

[mawilson 2,133]

The Department of Education was created by Jimmy Carter in 1980.

Since then, the quality of education has gone down, while per-pupil spending has nearly doubled.

The sheer size of it makes other government agencies look like a mouse's broom cupboard.

Take a look at this monstrosity and explain why you think it's so desperately needed.

[slim 1,525]

Say it isn't so! When the government gets involved cost goes up and quality goes down? I never woudl've seen that coming!

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

this is why you need to vote for me for president. i'll abolish nclb, reduce DOE to a small staff that sets national standards, and then leave it up to the states to follow those standards.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Right on.

Also, the people making up laws about education should be people who are actively involved in classrooms. NCLB was and is a joke. Every single dedicated and qualified teacher knows this to be fact. You cannot rate a school/classroom/pod/team/teacher based on standardized test scores. Well, you CAN, but it's ridiculous.

For everyone who complains about public education and who blame the teachers -- would you do their jobs? Best case scenario: you have 35 to 150 students a day (depending on whether you are primary or secondary), you have text books, and ample supplies (but you bought most of the supplies yourself), you have actively involved parents, and you have students who want to learn.

Normal scenario: same numbers, you are still providing your own supplies and sometimes you have to figure out how to get textbooks, the percentage of involved parents is very limited, students are either not interested, can't stay awake (for whatever reason), are interested but need additional help they can't get and you can't provide, you have administrators breathing down your neck to fall into line on matters that take up far too much of your teaching time and have no benefit for the classroom, you rarely have time for a bathroom break, much less a lunch break, you bring your work home with you in the evenings and work late into the night, you arrive early to prepare before school, you have -- on average in the nation -- a Master's degree in your subject area and/or M.Ed or MAT, you get little to no respect and you are paid ####### wages. AND people think you don't do a good enough job and you get paid too much (or, if you're in Wisconsin -- they just take away all your collective bargaining rights).

Is it any wonder that public schools are in dire shape? Is it any wonder that many excellent, qualified, dedicated teachers either leave the profession or leave public education?

Instead of having a 100% passing rate on a BS standardized test that does nothing to adequately monitor or measure our students' knowledge and does nothing to prepare them for college or life after high school -- how about let parents and teachers work together to find solutions to these issues? How about letting people who are in the classroom have a say in what the Dept of Education does?

/rant over

You like national standards, but you think standardized tests are a joke?

[slim 1,525]

DOE is department of energy. Setting national standards is well within the federal government's scope of responsibility when it comes to energy.

Education... not so much.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Say it isn't so! When the government gets involved cost goes up and quality goes down? I never woudl've seen that coming!

So is that your own personal excuse?

[jundp 191]

You like national standards, but you think standardized tests are a joke?

Just from my personal experience in the last 12 years, and I've only taught in two states so my opinion is skewed by that experience: The national standards are a starting point for state standards. In my school district we use standards determined by our state to direct our curriculum development. The national standards are a starting point -- the minimum, if you will. There should be some minimum requirement of classes and subjects for graduation from a public high school across the nation (4 years of Language Arts, 4 years of science, 3 years of math, etc) for the purposes of proper preparation for college. Then of course each state should be allowed to set their own state curriculum standards based on those national standards. That way you don't have the majority of students from one state graduating without a minimal background needed to work/go to school anywhere in the US.

But a one-size-fits-all national standardized testing -- no I don't agree with it. We already have PSAT, SAT, ACT tests for determining college admissions. Teachers are often so pressured to 'teach to the test' that they aren't actually achieving the curriculum requirements for the state standards for their grade level, because (shocking) the standardized test isn't an accurate representation of the understanding of the state standards.

If one of my standards is:

Transfer knowledge of vocabulary learned in content areas to comprehend other grade-level informational/expository

text and literary/narrative text (e.g.,the concept of parallel in mathematics to understand parallelism).

And I (as a teacher) have a list of vocabulary words relevant to this test, but say not relevant to the curricular material for that year/grade/class then what do I do? I must either scrap the curriculum that has been best determined by educators in my state to represent the needs for that grade level and instead teach what someone is telling me I must teach for a test (written by people not in a classroom, definitely not in my district) or I must find a way in the time I have to teach ALL of it. Therein lies one of the problems -- the national standardized tests don't always match up to the curriculum determined by the state/district.

Did that make any sense? It's hard for me to convey what I mean, I guess.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

DOE is department of energy. Setting national standards is well within the federal government's scope of responsibility when it comes to energy.

Education... not so much.

We need nationals standards. Whether it is the Federal Government doing it, or a national organization, you want to make sure the students receiving an education in an individual institution can meet the standards of higher institutions. Otherwise, you may have the situation all to many immigrants are familiar with: Substandard education is not transferable.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

DOE is department of energy. Setting national standards is well within the federal government's scope of responsibility when it comes to energy.

Education... not so much.

and we'll rename it to dope - department of public education.

[slim 1,525]

So is that your own personal excuse?

"Excuse for what, sir?"

"Dammit numbbuts, I'm asking the f'king questions."

We need nationals standards.

We do?

How did folks ever get a good education before the Department of Education came along?

and we'll rename it to dope - department of public education.

That's about right!

[The_Dude 1,142]

"Excuse for what, sir?"

"Dammit numbbuts, I'm asking the f'king questions."

So the reason you are uneducated is because the government administered the public education in your district?