Continuing to Dumb Down America: Failing Schools Except from Testing

[The_Dude 1,142]

I graduated from public school and I turned out just fine.

That certainly is debateable.

[Zero Sum 305]

I've been at schools that struggle to meet the required percentages. The federal requirement is relatively new and it's been interesting watching the faces of new teachers as they find out about the requirements. Their first year, they'll find out that we need to get 54% to pass the math test in order to be acceptable. And they bust their a$$ teaching the best they can to get that number. Then the next year they find out the number is 59%, and they work as hard as they can again and maybe we make it, or maybe we just get close. And then the next year it's 65%, (I'm making up these numbers since I don't remember exactly what they were) and the new teacher starts to get a little anxious about the constantly rising number. And finally, that new teacher asks how high the percentage will eventually be. And when they find out that eventually the percentage will be 100%, there is a look of panic in their face. And they quietly admit that there is no way they can get everybody to pass. And all of us old teachers understand.

I guess we've legislated Lake Wobegon.

There has to be a balance between having qualified instructors and adequate community (parent, government) involvement. That much is obvious. Too bad we allow ourselves to fall to dogma before actually considering partnerships are possible in all kinds of different ways that should be constructive in bringing all students up to a higher standard. We already see the effects- not just in ghetto schools... of poor thinking skills on the national level.

You're deflecting. I've asked you a fair and pointed question to explain your argument why you think that the Fed has no jurisdiction over public schools. Surely you've based your view on something substantive beyond mere opinion. I mean, opinions are great, but they're no substitute for the U.S. Constitution.

Paranoia has very little basis in cold, hard fact.

[Zero Sum 305]

But do you agree with the only acceptable passing standard for a school is 100%?

I don't. Only one standard? No, that's a big leap at this point in time, IMO. Or in the foreseeable immediate future. You have to restructure the academic system to make it more community-oriented (and this does not mean having academic standards jeopardized by special interests and unacademic beliefs) to make accountability more than just a black and white 'do it right or we shut you down' approach.

[HeatDeath 430]

Paranoia has very little basis in cold, hard fact.

That's only because if it's true, no one calls it paranoia.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That's only because if it's true, no one calls it paranoia.

The Commerce Clause and the 14th Amendment set the precedent for why the Fed oversees public education. Remember, we have SCOTUS to rely on for matters regarding the Constitution and while it may be argued that SCOTUS has not always made the right decision, public education has been around long enough to have its day in court.

Edited August 9, 2011 by DFH

[Zero Sum 305]

That's only because if it's true, no one calls it paranoia.

The government is gonna start takin yer limbs away from you. Just you wait and see.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It's pretty obvious why you'd want education to be centrally controlled, at least to some degree

It's called national standards. You can't have one state specializing in tree hugging while the rest of the nation worries about math and science.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

American public school law

By Kern Alexander, M. David Alexander

[Zero Sum 305]

It's called national standards. You can't have one state specializing in tree hugging while the rest of the nation worries about math and science.

You must mean have a couple of states specializing in denying science (and math).

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Some states (and States) think science is synonymous with Gaiaism.

ETA: Note to self. Don't try and correct others' grammar.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's called national standards. You can't have one state specializing in tree hugging while the rest of the nation worries about math and science.

Indeed, it's pretty obvious.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Indeed, it's pretty obvious.

Just wait for Luckytxn to come and disprove that.

[Zero Sum 305]

Some states (and States) think science is synonymous with Gaiaism.

ETA: Note to self. Don't try and correct others' grammar.

Sometimes, poor grammar (thinking, particularly when done often) is a sign of poor thinking skills.

[jundp 191]

It's called national standards. You can't have one state specializing in tree hugging while the rest of the nation worries about math and science.

Right on.

Also, the people making up laws about education should be people who are actively involved in classrooms. NCLB was and is a joke. Every single dedicated and qualified teacher knows this to be fact. You cannot rate a school/classroom/pod/team/teacher based on standardized test scores. Well, you CAN, but it's ridiculous.

For everyone who complains about public education and who blame the teachers -- would you do their jobs? Best case scenario: you have 35 to 150 students a day (depending on whether you are primary or secondary), you have text books, and ample supplies (but you bought most of the supplies yourself), you have actively involved parents, and you have students who want to learn.

Normal scenario: same numbers, you are still providing your own supplies and sometimes you have to figure out how to get textbooks, the percentage of involved parents is very limited, students are either not interested, can't stay awake (for whatever reason), are interested but need additional help they can't get and you can't provide, you have administrators breathing down your neck to fall into line on matters that take up far too much of your teaching time and have no benefit for the classroom, you rarely have time for a bathroom break, much less a lunch break, you bring your work home with you in the evenings and work late into the night, you arrive early to prepare before school, you have -- on average in the nation -- a Master's degree in your subject area and/or M.Ed or MAT, you get little to no respect and you are paid ####### wages. AND people think you don't do a good enough job and you get paid too much (or, if you're in Wisconsin -- they just take away all your collective bargaining rights).

Is it any wonder that public schools are in dire shape? Is it any wonder that many excellent, qualified, dedicated teachers either leave the profession or leave public education?

Instead of having a 100% passing rate on a BS standardized test that does nothing to adequately monitor or measure our students' knowledge and does nothing to prepare them for college or life after high school -- how about let parents and teachers work together to find solutions to these issues? How about letting people who are in the classroom have a say in what the Dept of Education does?

/rant over

Edited August 10, 2011 by jundp

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Right on.

Also, the people making up laws about education should be people who are actively involved in classrooms. NCLB was and is a joke. Every single dedicated and qualified teacher knows this to be fact. You cannot rate a school/classroom/pod/team/teacher based on standardized test scores. Well, you CAN, but it's ridiculous.

For everyone who complains about public education and who blame the teachers -- would you do their jobs? Best case scenario: you have 35 to 150 students a day (depending on whether you are primary or secondary), you have text books, and ample supplies (but you bought most of the supplies yourself), you have actively involved parents, and you have students who want to learn.

Jen, we have people in this country as demonstrated in this thread, who believe that public education is unconstitutional and would love nothing more than to see it completely dismantled on a Federal level. So it makes all the more difficult to succeed, however that may be defined. It's like being in a life raft with someone who keeps frantically saying, "We're doomed! We're doomed!" If only we could just throw them overboard.