married before entering on K-1

[Ramsis 1]

Yes, as long as you can prove you were physically in each other's presence after the date on the marriage certificate. You'll have to explain that the initial marriage was by proxy since you won't have any documents to prove you were together when the marriage occurred.

It would be substantially less complicated to just get married in person and get a proper marriage certificate.

It has nothing to do with being "bad". Until you have a legal wedding you don't have a petitionable relationship. It's really that simple.

From the USCIS Adjudicator's Field Manual, chapter 21.3:

(A) Proxy Marriages .

Section 101(a)(35) of the Act provides that the term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage has been consummated. (Note: Consummation of a marriage can only occur after the ceremony, there is no such thing as “pre-consummation” of a marriage.)

http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/AFM/HTML/AFM/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3429/0-0-0-4407.html

Ok so can i file before the ceremony.....and when the time comes of an interview and they ask ..did you have a ceremony? or did you consummate? i will tell them YES...and show them ticket, wedding pictures, hotels.....?????????????

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Ok so can i file before the ceremony.....and when the time comes of an interview and they ask ..did you have a ceremony? or did you consummate? i will tell them YES...and show them ticket, wedding pictures, hotels.....?????????????

No you can't, because you HADN'T consummated at the time of FILING. It's the time of filing that matters, not the time of interview.

Basically it's like this:

1. Marry by proxy. You have to file AFTER you've consummated the marriage (which will be after the in-person wedding)

2. Marry in person. File after the wedding.

It's really just that simple. When you send the packet to USCIS with the CR-1 in it you have to have married by proxy AND consummated the marriage, or married in person (consummation is assumed when it's an in-person wedding). Given that proxy weddings carry a bigger risk of denial than an in-person ceremony, and given you have to file after the in-person wedding either way (to prove consummation for the proxy or to get married for the in-person wedding)... then just file based on the in-person wedding.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Vanessa&Tony

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Ok so can i file before the ceremony.....and when the time comes of an interview and they ask ..did you have a ceremony? or did you consummate? i will tell them YES...and show them ticket, wedding pictures, hotels.....?????????????

No. Vanessa explained this clearly. You don't have a petitionable relationship until you have a legal wedding. You must have a petitionable relationship at the time you send the petition. You have to include proof of the petitionable relationship with the petition.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You know what they are going to tell me? why didn't you check before you made us run around like chicken with no heads for 2 days. ....and you know what i am going to say??? This girl from Israel did not mention that in her previous posts!!!! Thanks so much ..you are a wonderful human being ..

Yes Seriously!! I said this three times before!! I quoted relevant parts of the I-130 instructions! I got insulted by another Egyptian about it because I was trying to help you get everything straight, and you call me "some Israeli girl?" I am not even Israeli!

Thanks for insulting my human qualities when I have been trying so hard to help you, a stranger, and arguing with posters who are misinformed on your behalf. I see your apology later... but still... yes seriously... this is what I have been saying the whole time. I tried to tell you this as soon as I saw you were considering a proxy marriage.

Thanks to Vanessa and Jim for the help.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Harpa Timsah

[Ramsis 1]

Yes Seriously!! I said this three times before!! I quoted relevant parts of the I-130 instructions! I got insulted by another Egyptian about it because I was trying to help you get everything straight, and you call me "some Israeli girl?" I am not even Israeli!

Thanks for insulting my human qualities when I have been trying so hard to help you, a stranger, and arguing with posters who are misinformed on your behalf. I see your apology later... but still... yes seriously... this is what I have been saying the whole time. I tried to tell you this as soon as I saw you were considering a proxy marriage.

Thanks to Vanessa and Jim for the help.

Sorry i took my anger out on you i guess because you were the last post. /hug

ok i will NOT file until we do the wedding in person

Now, is it a problem IF she went ahead and applied for a tourist visa now before we get married? and if its is ok, can she come back with me and live with me for a short while? she did want to come to do some shopping anyways

Edited August 11, 2011 by Ramsis

[Ramsis 1]

In other words, can she apply for B2 now with the intent to do shopping and may be visit me in the future. If she receives her B2 visa before our wedding or even shortly after, and lets say she visits me shortly after my return to the US or even return with me. Is it ok if i file while she is with me in the US under her B2 visa?

[Ramsis 1]

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9181/31951891.png

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[LunaticFringe 0]

because we thought we can apply for K1 and start the process and i get married to her after the interview and after she get her visa!!! and not mention that we did get married when she arrives to the US. and we get married again (civil marriage) in the US and apply for AOS using the US marriage certificate not the Egyptian one, right??!! i mean how would USCIS know about it.

I did not read through all 3 pages of replies to this thread so I don't know if someone already pointed this out to you or not:

You cannot get married in Egypt AND in the US. I married my husband in Egypt at the MOJ (legal marriage). We took a vacation to Florida together later that year and wanted to get married in the US also so my family could attend. We went to the Courthouse to apply for a marriage license. When we got to the window the woman handed us an application packet and told us to go fill that out. At that moment I mentioned that we were already married and she snatched the papers back out of my hand and said "if you are already married you CANNOT apply for another marriage license."

If you want to have another marriage ceremony in the US after you marry in Egypt you can have a simple "renewal of vows" ceremony but there will be no legal marriage license issued during this. So your only legal proof of marriage will be your Egyptian (translated and certified by the US Embassy) marriage certificate.

[realizment 18]

Lying is like playing with fire, dont do it. I dont know your exact situation, but would it be possible for you to have a ceremony in Egypt before she leaves but not an official legal wedding. but just something to mark it? Would that be ok? I think that would be fine immigration wise.. Not 100% but im guessing

[marymina119 3]

"i mean how would USCIS know about it."

It's people like who you take this approach and have this mentality that makes this process a burden for everyone else wanting to play by the rules. Telling a lie to a government official in the course of them performing their duties is a crime; perhaps they don't know immediately, perhaps they never find out, but if they do, you're screwed. As you should be.

calm down man /woman u should not just wish something bad to somebody who is just asking a question ok, he is just like many of us here who wonders about things we r not angels and do not act like it never crossed ur mind to do something wrong to bring ur loved one sooner !!!!!!!!! plus if it is PEOPLE like him who ###### up the immgration system there is alot of armenians in USA who ###### up the medical and wellfair system getting benfits and scaming creditcards so lets not go there if u have a respectful answer then say it if not then keep ur rude judgmental comments and bad wishes to urself .

[Soloenta 2,218]

When you actually are guilty it is almost impossible to stand up to 'Stokes" interview.

Hi Kathryn41 if I may ask what is "STOKES" INTERVIEW? Sounds really scary even if there is no fraud it's like being stopped

by the police and you have no clue why.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Hi Kathryn41 if I may ask what is "STOKES" INTERVIEW? Sounds really scary even if there is no fraud it's like being stopped

by the police and you have no clue why.

A stokes interview is where USCIS has made the determination that something is fishy with your story, and they will grill both parties for hours until they discover if your telling the truth or not.

If you fail - you get deported. (the non-USC - however, the USC can be held on breaking the law or something similar)

If you pass - you stay.

Only people with weak evidence/conflicting stories, etc... have to fear getting a stokes.

If you are one of these lost souls - get a lawyer pronto.

[Soloenta 2,218]

A stokes interview is where USCIS has made the determination that something is fishy with your story, and they will grill both parties for hours until they discover if your telling the truth or not.

If you fail - you get deported. (the non-USC - however, the USC can be held on breaking the law or something similar)

If you pass - you stay.

Only people with weak evidence/conflicting stories, etc... have to fear getting a stokes.

If you are one of these lost souls - get a lawyer pronto.

Hi Bobby+Umit hehee ty just curious we are so legit we have no worries there. Just thought it was the nasty gray haired guy at the

Egypt Embassy I hear so many nasty things about.

Thanks again I'm a curious person.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Hi Kathryn41 if I may ask what is "STOKES" INTERVIEW? Sounds really scary even if there is no fraud it's like being stopped

by the police and you have no clue why.

A Stokes Interview is the name that has been given to a certain type of second interview where a beneficiary is applying for a green card (either the conditional green card or the permanent green card) through marriage to a US citizen. The couple has already had a first interview at a USCIS office in their area and for some reason the adjudicator is suspicious that the marriage is not real. They suspect fraud - that the couple is not involved in a real relationship, or that the circumstances of the marriage are not legitimate. Usually, they suspect that the US citizen is getting some sort of benefit for going along with the scheme, and the sole purpose of the marriage is to get the immigrant a green card. Sometimes the couple does not even live in the same house, and may not even have met before the marriage. Usually the evidence is fake. This type of interview is designed to reveal this.

The couple is separated and each one is interviewed separately, often quite extensively and for a number of hours. A Stokes Interview tries to make the parties in the relationship either 'prove' that the marriage is fraudulent by their lack of basic information about their partner or the relationship, or tries to get a confession from one of them, by threatening them, or saying the other has already confessed. It is like being grilled for a crime and iin this case the interviewers don't play fair. They can and do ask about all aspects of the relationship and specific details about the other person, about the daily routines together, about their job, their family, their past, their home - things that in most cases married couples generally (but not always) know about each other. Since they start from the premise that the relationship is fraudulent it is an uphill battle for the couple to prove that their relationship is valid. The objective is that only a real relationship will pass a Stokes Interview and fake ones will either 'break' or give themselves away.

You definitely don't want to go through a Stokes type interview.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Kathryn41

[MalaysianGirl 26]

In other words, can she apply for B2 now with the intent to do shopping and may be visit me in the future. If she receives her B2 visa before our wedding or even shortly after, and lets say she visits me shortly after my return to the US or even return with me. Is it ok if i file while she is with me in the US under her B2 visa?

Firstly, Ramsis, good to know that you have decided to file AFTER marrying in person. Wise choice.

To answer your B2 visa questions: Yes, your Egyptian fiancee can apply for a B2 visa now, but there is NO GUARANTEE she will get her B2 visa approved, as she is already engaged to you, a US citizen.

Also, yes, your Egyptian wife (after you have married) can apply for a B2 visa, but there is also NO GUARANTEE she will get the visa because she would already be married to you, a US citizen.

The reasons are because the Consular Officer (CO) will assume that she will go to the US and NOT return to Egypt, so she needs to bring substantial proof of strong ties to Egypt. Even so, she may still be denied the B2 visa. Honestly, Ramsis, the probability of her getting an approved B2 visa is nearly zero, whether or not she applies for it before or after the wedding. I'm sorry.