'Hundreds of young black people beating white people'...

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Making your own decisions to smoke or not smoke and if you smoke - do it outside. That's letting people make their own decisions.

Bar owners probably don't give a toss, so long as the laws they adhere to don't adversely affect trade. That certainly hasn't been the case here.

"Bar owners don't give a toss" ? #######? Why is it then that the bar owners are the ones most vocal about that law? Why is it that most bar owners allowed smoking in their establishment ?

You ever hear about freedom of choice ? Is anyone holding a gun to a non smokers head forcing them to go into an establishment where the OWNER chooses to allow smoking?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Bar owners don't give a toss" ? #######? Why is it then that the bar owners are the ones most vocal about that law? Why is it that most bar owners allowed smoking in their establishment ?

You ever hear about freedom of choice ? Is anyone holding a gun to a non smokers head forcing them to go into an establishment where the OWNER chooses to allow smoking?

It's the law in a lot of places, Kip. You can't choose to ignore the law.

You say "bar owners are the most vocal" but that isn't what I've seen. Far from it actually. There was some dissent in Ireland when the no-smoking laws were brought in, but it hasn't adversely affected trade. Same story in the UK too.

It wasn't even much of an issue in NY or LA either.

[jundp 191]

Smoking sucks and second-hand smoke kills.

Bars are overcrowded and expensive.

I'd rather have friends over or go to a friend's house, drink wine or beer that costs less for the bottle/six pack than one drink at a bar, not deal with stinky people who smoke (or just stinky people), obnoxious patrons (male and female), and have more fun in the process.

I realize this has nothing to do with the OP.

As for Seattle, I've lived here 10 years and I really like it. But I'm not an extremist, and I don't own a small business, I don't hug trees (contrary to what Charles thinks), and I belong to an awesome charity organization. My friends are pretty in-the-middle, too.

I will say it's a standing joke here that people will protest just about anything, usually without any real understanding of that which they protest

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Smoking sucks and second-hand smoke kills.

Bars are overcrowded and expensive.

I'd rather have friends over or go to a friend's house, drink wine or beer that costs less for the bottle/six pack than one drink at a bar, not deal with stinky people who smoke (or just stinky people), obnoxious patrons (male and female), and have more fun in the process.

I realize this has nothing to do with the OP.

As for Seattle, I've lived here 10 years and I really like it. But I'm not an extremist, and I don't own a small business, I don't hug trees (contrary to what Charles thinks), and I belong to an awesome charity organization. My friends are pretty in-the-middle, too.

I will say it's a standing joke here that people will protest just about anything, usually without any real understanding of that which they protest

What fishdude and many others don't get is people, including bar owners...the people that pay for the establishment want the choice to allow smoking or not.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Nicotine fiends and drunks want to hang out at the same place: Big surprise. All they need are the scoops in back to take them along with the hookers and the drug addicts to the abattoir.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Cigarette addicts and drunks want to hang out at the same place: Big surprise. All they need are the scoops in back to take them along with the hookers and the drug addicts to the abattoir.

####### does that have to do with the guy who owns the bar allowing smoking in his/her establishment? You one of those peeps that are afraid of allowing people to make their own choices and would rather have someone else do it for them?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

####### does that have to do with the guy who owns the bar allowing smoking in his/her establishment? You one of those peeps that are afraid of allowing people to make their own choices and would rather have someone else do it for them?

What is wrong with a child molester selling heroin to school children?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What fishdude and many others don't get is people, including bar owners...the people that pay for the establishment want the choice to allow smoking or not.

Says you. That people still go to bars and smoke in designated areas says its not a big deal.

YOU might not like it, but yours is the opinion of one man.

####### does that have to do with the guy who owns the bar allowing smoking in his/her establishment? You one of those peeps that are afraid of allowing people to make their own choices and would rather have someone else do it for them?

Choice goes both ways Kip. I don't know why you find this so difficult to understand because it really isn't.

[jundp 191]

FWIW, I don't think smoking should be allowed in restaurants or bars. It's not about "choice," it's about health. If you want to slowly kill yourself, awesome -- but don't expose others to your nasty habit.

smoker. I don't have a problem with smoking or people who smoke, but it is proven to cause a myriad of health problems, both in the smokers and in those who come in contact with the smoke, so I do have a problem when their choice affects the health of others.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

What is wrong with a child molester selling heroin to school children?

Ya, an adult choosing to smoke in a bar where the owner allows smoking is comparable to a child molester selling herion to school kids. And I'm a fckng millionaire.

Says you. That people still go to bars and smoke in designated areas says its not a big deal.

YOU might not like it, but yours is the opinion of one man.

Choice goes both ways Kip. I don't know why you find this so difficult to understand because it really isn't.

Google the word "choice". If a bar owner...you know..the person or people that actually owns the bar, makes sure the bills get paid, pays the taxes, employee's, business license etc... wants to allow smoking in said bar for the fact the "CHOICE" is allowed them...####### is the problem? You another one of those peeps that think adults shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

FWIW, I don't think smoking should be allowed in restaurants or bars. It's not about "choice," it's about health. If you want to slowly kill yourself, awesome -- but don't expose others to your nasty habit.

smoker. I don't have a problem with smoking or people who smoke, but it is proven to cause a myriad of health problems, both in the smokers and in those who come in contact with the smoke, so I do have a problem when their choice affects the health of others.

Hence the law in many jurisdictions.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

FWIW, I don't think smoking should be allowed in restaurants or bars. It's not about "choice," it's about health. If you want to slowly kill yourself, awesome -- but don't expose others to your nasty habit.

smoker. I don't have a problem with smoking or people who smoke, but it is proven to cause a myriad of health problems, both in the smokers and in those who come in contact with the smoke, so I do have a problem when their choice affects the health of others.

Then make the choice to not to go. That's simple isn't it? Has anyone ever held a loaded gun to you or anyone else head and forced them to go into a bar that allows smoking? If so, then call 911. If not, don't go. If you don't want to go to a strip club and stick dollar bills into a chicks panties...then make your own "choice" and don't do it. "Choice" is the key word here.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ya, an adult choosing to smoke in a bar where the owner allows smoking is comparable to a child molester selling herion to school kids. And I'm a fckng millionaire.

Google the word "choice". If a bar owner...you know..the person or people that actually owns the bar, makes sure the bills get paid, pays the taxes, employee's, business license etc... wants to allow smoking in said bar for the fact the "CHOICE" is allowed them...####### is the problem? You another one of those peeps that think adults shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?

You like repeating yourself don't you Kip, I guess you're one of those peeps who doesn't understand that the issues here are bigger than your narrow opinion about CHOICE. You seemingly don't understand that the personal choice of smokers (if an addiction to cigarettes can be called a choice) doesn't give people who don't smoke a choice to not be exposed to the smoke. Since smokers are the ones causing the "problem" so to speak with their choice, taking their habit outside of the bar seems like a fair compromise.

Then make the choice to not to go. That's simple isn't it? Has anyone ever held a loaded gun to you or anyone else head and forced them to go into a bar that allows smoking? If so, then call 911. If not, don't go. If you don't want to go to a strip club and stick dollar bills into a chicks panties...then make your own "choice" and don't do it. "Choice" is the key word here.

Why not choose to smoke outside? What's wrong with that?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You like repeating yourself don't you Kip, I guess you're one of those peeps who doesn't understand that the issues here are bigger than your narrow opinion about CHOICE. You seemingly don't understand that the personal choice of smokers (if an addiction to cigarettes can be called a choice) doesn't give people who don't smoke a choice to not be exposed to the smoke. Since smokers are the ones causing the "problem" so to speak with their choice, taking their habit outside of the bar seems like a fair compromise.

Why not choose to smoke outside? What's wrong with that?

Explain how someone who doesn't want to deal with second hand smoke so they "choose" to not to go into a smoking establishment is being affected by second hand smoke? Explain that one please.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Why_Me

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Explain how someone who doesn't want to deal with second hand smoke chooses to not to go into a smoking establishment is being affected by second hand smoke? Explain that one please.

Explain why bars should be off limits for people who don't want to smoke.