'Hundreds of young black people beating white people'...

[rsn 135]

Wow, this thread went from the violence at the Wisconsin State Fair to smoking in bars?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Wow, this thread went from the violence at the Wisconsin State Fair to smoking in bars?

The fair thing started to get played out a bit so we decided to flip the script.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Wow, this thread went from the violence at the Wisconsin State Fair to smoking in bars?

Smoking outside bars, restaurants, theaters, stores, et cetera is worse, especially on a dark, cold, or rainy night. It seems you have to hold your breath way too long to get through the noxious fumes safely.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[rsn 135]

The fair thing started to get played out a bit so we decided to flip the script.

Cool. Let me know when we start covering the recall elections.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again it's about adults having choice. Alaskan "adults" are allowed to grow and smoke weed...again it's our choice as adults. It's what this country used to be about...freedom of choice. Too bad the commie libs want to take all that away from us.

George Orwell's "1984"...read it sometime.

I have read it, Kip. You haven't or the reference would make sense. It doesn't.

Freedom is a curious concept, often misunderstood by those who purport to be libertarians. You can't, for instance, be free and at the same time be able to choose to sell yourself into slavery. Hence that "choice" cannot and does not exist in the context of any discussion about freedom.

Likewise with smoking in public places - the choice to indulge in a behaviour that is both addictive and damaging to the health of the individual and those around them raises interesting questions: Is the choice to smoke really a choice? Are smoking bans an affront to individual liberty?

1) On the obvious level you certainly are free to take up smoking, but in doing so you likely to become chemically dependent and therefore in the future when you smoke that decision will be made out of addiction and not out of voluntary choice. Hardly the yardstick that most people would measure freedom and liberty...

2) On another level - the choice of the smoker to smoke belies the fact that smoking costs society money, both in terms of healthcare and in incapacity or disability benefits and social security. Are you really saying that the right of an individual to smoke should incur cost for the rest of society? Once again, this doesn't seem compatible with the concept of freedom and liberty either - unless it's liberty to do whatever you like, regardless of the impact on anyone else...

Edited August 7, 2011 by fishdude

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Smoking outside bars, restaurants, theaters, stores, et cetera is worse, especially on a dark, cold, or rainy night. It seems you have to hold your breath way too long to get through the noxious fumes safely.

Let me know when California starts getting -40 ambient.

Cool. Let me know when we start covering the recall elections.

I'm hoping for a thread like that myself. Watch all the control freaks scurry like rats when that happens.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Smoking outside bars, restaurants, theaters, stores, et cetera is worse, especially on a dark, cold, or rainy night. It seems you have to hold your breath way too long to get through the noxious fumes safely.

Did someone hold a loaded gun to your head and force you to go into an establishment where the "owner" "chooses" to allow smoking ?

When someone holds a gun to my head and forces me to go into a "non smoking establishment" I'l be sure and let you know...right after I call 911 of course.

[웃 910]

2) On another level - the choice of the smoker to smoke belies the fact that smoking costs society money, both in terms of healthcare and in incapacity or disability benefits and social security. Are you really saying that the right of an individual to smoke should incur cost for the rest of society? Once again, this doesn't seem compatible with the concept of freedom and liberty either - unless it's liberty to do whatever you like, regardless of the impact on anyone else...

Good point.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Good point.

Do you have any idea how much states make on taxes from cigs? Enough to use that tax money to pay for their bs projects like roads, building, pay raises for the worthless politicians, etc... they make mega bucks from those taxes.

[Ban Hammer 13,493]

lesson for today:

smoke and hurt one's health and place an undue burden on society with medical costs = bad

support abortion on demand, with the potential to harm one's health and place a burden on society with medical costs = good.

[Ban Hammer 13,493]

Do you have any idea how much states make on taxes from cigs? Enough to use that tax money to pay for their bs projects like roads, building, pay raises for the worthless politicians, etc... they make mega bucks from those taxes.

2010 figures below:

- Federal excise taxes - $15,513,887,000

- State and local excise taxes - $17,228,666,000

- State cigarette sales taxes - $4,174,303,000

total: 36,916,856,000

link

Federal, state and local governments collect more money from the sale of cigarettes than retailers, wholesalers, farmers and manufacturers combined.

Edited August 8, 2011 by charles!

[웃 910]

Do you have any idea how much states make on taxes from cigs? Enough to use that tax money to pay for their bs projects like roads, building, pay raises for the worthless politicians, etc... they make mega bucks from those taxes.

Yes. Also on alcohol too. And hopefully within the next decade you can walk into a gas station and buy a fat cigarette sized joint for $10 + $5 tax.

I think it is just common courtesy to go outside when smoking. A non-smoker (at least myself) can really feel it in their lungs the next morning after a night out at the bar.

And I worked in a restaurant for a couple years (one side fine dining the other side a bar). Working on the bar side was like smoking 2 packs in one shift.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

lesson for today:

smoke and hurt one's health and place an undue burden on society with medical costs = bad

support abortion on demand, with the potential to harm one's health and place a burden on society with medical costs = good.

Different issues Charles, not really the same consideration.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

lesson for today:

smoke and hurt one's health and place an undue burden on society with medical costs = bad

support abortion on demand, with the potential to harm one's health and place a burden on society with medical costs = good.

The taxes states make off selling tabaco products far out ways the medical cost.

Here's a prime example of greedy fat spending commie libs at work.

Washington state...which is ran by starbucks drinking REI spending commie libs has a "Washington State Lotto"...yet they also offer (if you pay), classes to help with gambling habits. Go figure eh.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Why_Me

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who says that they outweigh the medical costs?