The Laws of Islam

[Sofiyya 1,687]

she keeps going and going.....

It's my thread, Charles. I started it and I made a commitment to it for those who are interested in learning. I take my commitments seriously.

[Veiled Princess 1]

she keeps going and going.....

Ah!! Stolen!!!! I was so looking for that a while back but all I could find was a still pic

[sarah and hicham 3]

she keeps going and going.....

Charles it's funny to see that you have apparently switched "sides". I do recall you saying how much you like szsz and respect her and now you're all about VP. Good times.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Charles it's funny to see that you have apparently switched "sides". I do recall you saying how much you like szsz and respect her and now you're all about VP. Good times.

I wonder about that, too, Sarah, but I'm more worried about Charles' back. He's so bent over for VP that he may hurt himself.

I was trying not to say that coz I know he's been trying to bait me, but I can no longer resist!

[Veiled Princess 1]

she keeps going and going.....

Charles it's funny to see that you have apparently switched "sides". I do recall you saying how much you like szsz and respect her and now you're all about VP. Good times.

Does he have to agree or disagree 100% with anyone at any given time???

[sarah and hicham 3]

she keeps going and going.....

Charles it's funny to see that you have apparently switched "sides". I do recall you saying how much you like szsz and respect her and now you're all about VP. Good times.

Does he have to agree or disagree 100% with anyone at any given time???

NO. Who said he had to?

[Bosco 1]

I don't want to post in Henia's wedding thread but szsz isn't the only one who holds her views on the necessity of registering marriage. I have read this several times myself.

One example (The question was posed in Canada but would obviously apply to other places as well):

link

Could you please tell me what is the procedure of getting a nikaah (marriage) done in Toronto; do I have to get a court marriage done first then nikaah? Or can I get a nikaah done first without a court marriage?

Question number: 724

Date posted: 2005-01-17

Answer:

Marriages, properly speaking, must be done in complete compliance with the laws of the land one is living; for marriage entails certain obligations and duties, which cannot be enforced except through legalizing it. So I insist that every Muslim who is desirous of getting married should do so in compliance with the laws of the country he or she is living. Therefore, it is extremely important for us to ensure that marriages are properly registered and legally documented, instead of merely formalized through a verbal nikah ceremony alone. This is so because of the fact that failure to comply with the laws of the land may likely entail grave and incalculable harm for the parties involved. Islam orders us to guard ourselves against all possible harm or injury involving ourselves and others.

By failing to register marriages, the parties cannot have recourse to legal channels to get their rights and responsibilities enforced. Islam does not allow for anarchy; the wisdom of Islamic jurists have told us that some laws are better than no laws; in countries where Islamic laws are not enforced, we are not allowed to take the laws in our own hands, for there are no authorities to enforce the Islamic laws; so we must abide by the existing laws. In fact especially in regards to marriage in particular, we have every facility here that allows us to get married simultaneously legally and Islamically.

Therefore I must insist that the proper procedure is to get the proper license for marriage, which can be signed by the Imam or marriage officer who is authorised to perform marriages. This is the only surest, safest and the proper procedure, which is at once in perfect agreement with teachings of Islam as well as the laws of the land we are living.

Finally, as Muslims living here we must never fall into the temptation of breaking the laws of the land, which we have chosen to be the citizens of.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Does he have to agree or disagree 100% with anyone at any given time???

I'd be happy if it was agreement or disagreement, but he's just picking, trying to bait me, not discussing the topic at all. And he is 100% for you, which is what has heads scratching.

I asked him last night why he's so chummy now with people who have abused him. No answer, but it must be masochism, and that's he kindest conclusion I can come by. But, the topic is not Charles and VP. When I return, insha'allah, I'll pick up on the explanation I began with.

I don't want to post in Henia's wedding thread but szsz isn't the only one who holds her views on the necessity of registering marriage. I have read this several times myself.

This is the thread to discuss the laws of Islam, and right now, this is the law we're discussing, so you're in the right place. Thank you, Rebecca, for this important contribution. I intend to read it and add some additional information to fill in the gaps when I return.

Edited September 17, 2006 by szsz

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I don't want to post in Henia's wedding thread but szsz isn't the only one who holds her views on the necessity of registering marriage. I have read this several times myself.

Remember Islam Q & A? VP claimed that she doesn't agree with the site, but yet again... the site has an opinion that agrees with her and not with Bosco/szsz. I don't know (nor particularly care) who is correct, but I do know that once again, this extremist website and VP are on the same page.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

In order for a marriage to be valid, there must be agreement from both parties, and the presence of the woman’s wali (guardian) and two Muslim witnesses of good character, and there should be no impediments in the case of either partner.

If these conditions are met, and the contract is done by means of the proposal and acceptance by the wali and the husband, then the marriage is done. [..] Recording and documenting the marriage are done only to protect people’s rights and to avoid disputes.

Based on this, if you agree to do the marriage in the manner described above, and on the basis that you will delay the registration and documentation until you go back to your country or until it becomes easier for you to go to an Islamic center, then there is nothing wrong with that.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=22728&ln=eng

Edited September 17, 2006 by Gupt

[Veiled Princess 1]

I don't want to post in Henia's wedding thread but szsz isn't the only one who holds her views on the necessity of registering marriage. I have read this several times myself.

One example (The question was posed in Canada but would obviously apply to other places as well):

link

Could you please tell me what is the procedure of getting a nikaah (marriage) done in Toronto; do I have to get a court marriage done first then nikaah? Or can I get a nikaah done first without a court marriage?

Question number: 724

Date posted: 2005-01-17

Answer:

Marriages, properly speaking, must be done in complete compliance with the laws of the land one is living; for marriage entails certain obligations and duties, which cannot be enforced except through legalizing it. So I insist that every Muslim who is desirous of getting married should do so in compliance with the laws of the country he or she is living. Therefore, it is extremely important for us to ensure that marriages are properly registered and legally documented, instead of merely formalized through a verbal nikah ceremony alone. This is so because of the fact that failure to comply with the laws of the land may likely entail grave and incalculable harm for the parties involved. Islam orders us to guard ourselves against all possible harm or injury involving ourselves and others.

By failing to register marriages, the parties cannot have recourse to legal channels to get their rights and responsibilities enforced. Islam does not allow for anarchy; the wisdom of Islamic jurists have told us that some laws are better than no laws; in countries where Islamic laws are not enforced, we are not allowed to take the laws in our own hands, for there are no authorities to enforce the Islamic laws; so we must abide by the existing laws. In fact especially in regards to marriage in particular, we have every facility here that allows us to get married simultaneously legally and Islamically.

Therefore I must insist that the proper procedure is to get the proper license for marriage, which can be signed by the Imam or marriage officer who is authorised to perform marriages. This is the only surest, safest and the proper procedure, which is at once in perfect agreement with teachings of Islam as well as the laws of the land we are living.

Finally, as Muslims living here we must never fall into the temptation of breaking the laws of the land, which we have chosen to be the citizens of.

Registering a marriage does not necessarily protect any Islamic rights in western countries.

Failing to register a marriage and living together without a marriage license is not illegal in western countries and so no laws are being broken.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No doubt, Q&A is an extremist website, but to their credit, even they admit that registation is required:

It is preferable to hasten to register the marriage at the first opportunity, and strive to do that so as to ward off any suspicion and so as to protect people’s rights, especially if Allaah blesses you with children.

And, they mention protection, a requirement of marriage in Islam and something I want eagerly to discuss soon.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Remember Islam Q & A? VP claimed that she doesn't agree with the site, but yet again... the site has an opinion that agrees with her and not with Bosco/szsz. I don't know (nor particularly care) who is correct, but I do know that once again, this extremist website and VP are on the same page.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

In order for a marriage to be valid, there must be agreement from both parties, and the presence of the woman’s wali (guardian) and two Muslim witnesses of good character, and there should be no impediments in the case of either partner.

If these conditions are met, and the contract is done by means of the proposal and acceptance by the wali and the husband, then the marriage is done. [..] Recording and documenting the marriage are done only to protect people’s rights and to avoid disputes.

Based on this, if you agree to do the marriage in the manner described above, and on the basis that you will delay the registration and documentation until you go back to your country or until it becomes easier for you to go to an Islamic center, then there is nothing wrong with that.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=22728&ln=eng

Well just because they got some things wrong about other topics doesn't mean they can't be right about another

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Registering a marriage does not necessarily protect any Islamic rights in western countries.

Not registering protects no Islamic rights.

Failing to register a marriage and living together without a marriage license is not illegal in western countries and so no laws are being broken.

The laws of God are being broken because Muslims are supposed to live together without being validly married. What happened to your adversion to imitating the kuffar? Failing to register a marriage makes it not a marriage in the west.

[Bosco 1]

Registering a marriage does not necessarily protect any Islamic rights in western countries.

Failing to register a marriage and living together without a marriage license is not illegal in western countries and so no laws are being broken.

Weren't most of the marriages in question commenced in Muslim countries and thus the woman would have her rights protected in her husband's country (or enforcable in his country as most countries will enforce other country's Islamic marriage contracts) - which in fact would be more important than having it registered in the U.S as long as he was not residing here.

I think the article implies that no rights are better than some rights and some laws are better than no laws - i.e, you don't reject the laws because they are imperfect because they still offer some protection and some is better than none. My Islamic marriage that took place in the United States doesn't afford me 100% of the rights outlined in the Qur'an, but it does guarantee me some because it is registered. Likewise, by registering it in Morocco as well, I am guaranteed of my rights there.

To make things clear, posting that link was not to call anyone out on their marriage but only to show that szsz is clearly not the only person that feels the registration is important and/or necessary.

I am curious -- did anyone give serious thought to a guardian versus an Islamic marriage alone? I am not implying this is what anyone should have chosen, just wondering if anyone actually contemplated it and if so, what made you decide against it. It seems this alternative has not been discussed.

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

she keeps going and going.....

Charles it's funny to see that you have apparently switched "sides". I do recall you saying how much you like szsz and respect her and now you're all about VP. Good times.

oh i should really confuse everyone and side now with sarah