The Laws of Islam

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh snap!

[Veiled Princess 1]

Here's LB's two cents ( disclaimer I am a Muslim but not a scholar this is just what I know from my family and masjid) :

Why do we have weddings when we can all run around getting contracts ? We have weddings with people there to announce our marriage to the world. At my kitab iktab (marriage contract ceremony) there were over 200 people. Those 200 people and then the 400 that were invited to the reception at the hall will tell people that we are married. Pretty soon the entire Tripoli knew that we got married. We got married with both sets of parents there smiling and congratulating us. The people witnessed us getting married legally by the court and islamically by the sheikh. So when people see us walking around, at a restraunt alone, or in the house alone they know we are doing nothing behing anyones back. When Ali came to the U.S. we had our second wedding (where we consummated the marriage) with also about 100 people there. Now our family, friends, and fellow Muslims all know that we are married and have announced our marriage.

Getting married with nobody knowing but you, the man (I won't say husband cuz I dont believe in orfi marriages), the skeikh and two witnesses is HARAM. Say what you want but it is. That is what an orfi marriage is. Us girls that got married with contracts, had weddings, and had the intention of staying together forever had halal weddings. When someone does an orfi marriage just to have a good time and has the intention of getting a divorce the day before his plane leaves to go back home has commited HARAM.

I cannot believe that there are some well educated VJ'ers on here saying that orfi marriages are not haram. All sunni's know that they are haram ... shiites on the other hand believe in them. The best way to have a halal wedding is to get married with the sheikh and register your marriage. That way when you run to get a divorce you will have a HARD time.

Again that was just what I know from my family and masjid ....

LB please clarify ... is orfi marrages common-law marriages or are they temporary marriages (mut'a)?

I believe temporary marriages are haraam, however, I don't believe anyone on this message board signed their marriage contract with the imam and two witnesses with any intentions of divorcing once they left.

I'm also not interested in the culture of any muslim country... what I have asked for from each sister that has claimed a marriage contract alone is haraam is proof from the Quran and Sunnah. None has provided as much as of yet.

Also, are you saying that if I don't know 200 people or have a HUGE elaborate wedding then my marriage is not valid too?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have guests scheduled this afternoon, but do intend to proceed back on course with the information I promised earlier, insha'allah.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I have guests scheduled this afternoon, but do intend to proceed back on course with the information I promised earlier, insha'allah.

Have fun! I'm sure VP will come be in full force once you leave. See you later!

[Veiled Princess 1]

VP I find it funny that you tell SZSZ not to talk to you then you ask me to give you proof from the Quran which you know I do not have... can't handle the battle with SZSZ? I see that you are trying to battle against me aparently, because you think you can surely "win" since I am not even Muslim. Why can't you discuss this with her, since obviously she knows what she is talking about. Don't be scared!

Sarah, if you want to have an opinion on Islam you're going to need to learn about it.

I'm not at war with SZSZ. It is not my opinion that she obviously knows anything and do not find her to be a trustworthy scholar on any Islamic matter--- this is why she is on ignore and why I don't discuss this with her.

[sarah and hicham 3]

VP I find it funny that you tell SZSZ not to talk to you then you ask me to give you proof from the Quran which you know I do not have... can't handle the battle with SZSZ? I see that you are trying to battle against me aparently, because you think you can surely "win" since I am not even Muslim. Why can't you discuss this with her, since obviously she knows what she is talking about. Don't be scared!

Sarah, if you want to have an opinion on Islam you're going to need to learn about it.

I'm not at war with SZSZ. It is not my opinion that she obviously knows anything and do not find her to be a trustworthy scholar on any Islamic matter--- this is why she is on ignore and why I don't discuss this with her.

hahaha even more funny that you ignore her. Makes sense though!

[Veiled Princess 1]

Have fun! I'm sure VP will come be in full force once you leave. See you later!

VP has not left

[LebaneseMama 1]

I did say that the wedding must be annouced .... does not have to be an elaborate announcement. YES IT MUST BE ANNOUNCED. If you can't afford a huge wedding go to your local masque and get married in front of the Muslims there.

I don't know what a mut'a is ... in Lebanese we call what I explained a orfi marriage. I believe that couple must register their marriage somewhere (not sure about Islamic law but I can ask my shiekh). Whether in the Middle East or here in the U.S. because if it is not registered then the woman or man cannot have back up from the government in time of need. Why someone would not register their marriage at all blows my mind ...

I know of a woman who's husband refused to register their marriage ... turns out he was still married to their ex-wife. He tried to pull that "We don't need to by Islam and all that matters is Islam" line and now that woman has no rights when it comes to fighting him.

[Veiled Princess 1]

hahaha even more funny that you ignore her. Makes sense though!

Smart muslims do not sit and argue or battle shaytaan... we seek refuge in Allah from him and remove ourselves from his presence.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Have fun! I'm sure VP will come be in full force once you leave. See you later!

VP has not left

No one said you had left!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

LB please clarify ... is orfi marrages common-law marriages or are they temporary marriages (mut'a)?

Urfi/misyar marriages, the Sunni form of muta, more or less, are contracts where the couple has no financial obligation to each other, noinheritance. They don't even have to live together, the woman supports herself, but the man can claim his sexual rights on the woman. The ceremony for a misyar marriage can be open, but they are often done in secret to violate the confidence between a married couple when the husband wishes to secretly take another "wife". In the event of a child, it is not uncommon for the man to repudiate the women and deny the marriage or his paternity. There is a famous case in Egypt dealing with this

I believe temporary marriages are haraam, however, I don't believe anyone on this message board signed their marriage contract with the imam and two witnesses with any intentions of divorcing once they left.

No honorable person marries intending to divorce.

I'm also not interested in the culture of any muslim country... what I have asked for from each sister that has claimed a marriage contract alone is haraam is proof from the Quran and Sunnah. None has provided as much as of yet.

We will get there, insha'allah, don't worry. That's what this thread will be devoted to doing.

Smart muslims do not sit and argue or battle shaytaan... we seek refuge in Allah from him and remove ourselves from his presence.

Now I'm Shaytan again, lol! So, remove yourself from Shaytan's thread, smart (mouthed) girl!

[Veiled Princess 1]

I did say that the wedding must be annouced .... does not have to be an elaborate announcement. YES IT MUST BE ANNOUNCED. If you can't afford a huge wedding go to your local masque and get married in front of the Muslims there.

I don't know what a mut'a is ... in Lebanese we call what I explained a orfi marriage. I believe that couple must register their marriage somewhere (not sure about Islamic law but I can ask my shiekh). Whether in the Middle East or here in the U.S. because if it is not registered then the woman or man cannot have back up from the government in time of need. Why someone would not register their marriage at all blows my mind ...

I know of a woman who's husband refused to register their marriage ... turns out he was still married to their ex-wife. He tried to pull that "We don't need to by Islam and all that matters is Islam" line and now that woman has no rights when it comes to fighting him.

From my understanding of it... an orfi marriage means the marriage contract was signed, the conditions required for a valid nikkah were fulfilled, the man and woman consider themselves married and for whatever reason they have chosen not to register the marriage with the government.

There are many people who practice this in the US who are not muslim. Some do not even consider themselves married but live together as man and wife.

This, however, would not be the same as a mut'a which is a temporary marriage where both parties agreed on a certain amount of time or a certain date they would divorce before signing the marriage contract. This is more or less 'legalized' prostitution and something that at one time was allowed in Islam under certain circumstances but was abrogated.

No one here is 'refusing' to register their marriage but there have been a few of us who, after signing our marriage contracts and announcing our marriages, ran into issues trying to get our marriage registered overseas. We, therefore, have to come back to the states and wait for a K-1 visa so we can register our marriages here instead of there. This is not the same as a mut'a because none of us have any intentions of divorcing our husbands EVER.

It's also technically not illegal in this country so no one is violating any laws here. It is perfectly legal in the US for a man and a woman to live together and not have a marriage license. The only law that says we have to have a marriage license is the immigration law and that doesn't apply until after the non-USC's arrival in the US.

Personally, I don't like the idea of registering a marriage in western countries because it places restrictions on women that Allah did not place. An example of this would be that she must wait for at least a year to get her divorce. That's one year that she must remain unmarried with no husband to support or care for her. How is that any different from those men in the past suspending women in marriage... so they're neither married nor single? Not to mention that it is very expensive to get the courts to do anything for you regarding civil matters like this. The same services should be made available to everyone even if they don't have money to hire lawyers and such. Sadly though, and I speak from experience, if you don't have a lot of money, you are left in the cold with no rights.

Anyway, back to the topic, if an orfi marriage is the same as a mut'a (temporary marriage) then we need to stop calling it this because it's misleading. I don't believe anyone here is involved in a mut'a or temporary marriage.

Based on the above information I would ask you again to please provide proof from the Quran and Sunnah that registration with any government is mandatory in making a marriage valid.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Never say never. I don't think many of us marry with the thought of divorce in mind, but stuff happens, and people do get divorced.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Never say never. I don't think many of us marry with the thought of divorce in mind, but stuff happens, and people do get divorced.

I said we don't have the intention of ever divorcing... not that it would never happen... RDR.

[JElsafty 0]

I am so confused over all this whole thread that my head is going to explode! Out of curiosity, are there not a lot of us on the forum that did the "contract" marriage because of the difficultly we would have without it when we were in our SO's country?