The Laws of Islam

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Here's the catch that Layla is in. She explained before that because she has no recourse in the courts of law in either country, she would have depend on her husband;s good will to do right by her, and/or the good will of the commnunity that recognizes her marriage. In other words, she is not relying on God's law, but that those who care to involve themselves will hold to her best interests. That is relying on human reasoning.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Here's the catch that Layla is in. She explained before that because she has no recourse in the courts of law in either country, she would have depend on her husband;s good will to do right by her, and/or the good will of the commnunity that recognizes her marriage. In other words, she is not relying on God's law, but that those who care to involve themselves will hold to her best interests. That is relying on human reasoning.

Does a woman have many rights in a marriage such as this kind?

[Veiled Princess 1]

Layla, I did read your whole post.

So did you have a religious ceremony in Egypt? What do you mean when you say "I don't have a problem with registering my marriage when I am able". Were you not able to do so in Egypt? If one is married religiously and believes that under Allah they are married, then how can one come back to the US and file a K-1 petition? Even if that is obeying the law of the land, isn't it wrong since you see yourself as married and the K-1 petition is for a fiance? Even if you are married in a Muslim community, isn't it important to obey the laws of that community as well?

I'm not misrepresenting anything Sarah. You don't know anything about my case. I have not lied to immigration at all. Filing a K-1 petition is me following the laws of the land.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I didn't say you lied and I never accused you of anything... just curious to see your take on this.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

prohibition against suspending women in a marriage.

Can you elaborate? I don't understand what this means.

I'm trying to remember the name of this custom, it was outlawed in the Quran. It consisted of a husband declaring his wife to be like his sister. After doing so, it was forbidden for him to lay with her, but she wasn't divorced from him, nor could not divorce him and marry another. A woman approached the Prophet and complained of how awful and unfair the practice was and it was ended in sharia.

Edited September 16, 2006 by szsz

[noura 0]

I'm quickly losing respect for the one who seems "in charge" here..... **sigh**

[Jenn! 918]

prohibition against suspending women in a marriage.

Can you elaborate? I don't understand what this means.

I'm trying to remember the name of this custom, it was outlawed in the Quran. It consisted of a husband declaring his wife to be like his sister. After doing so, it was forbidden for him to lay with her, but she wasn't divorced from him, nor could not divorce him and marry another. A woman approached the Prophet and complained of how awful and unfair the practice was and it was ended in sharia.

Thanks for explaining.

Good for her for initiating this prohibition.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I'm quickly losing respect for the one who seems "in charge" here..... **sigh**

Why? We're just asking questions! The thread is for that purpose!

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

I'm quickly losing respect for the one who seems "in charge" here..... **sigh**

who's in charge?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Does a woman have many rights in a marriage such as this kind?

None that the husband does not allow to her. The imam can do nothing to compell him, neither can the witnesses or guests. It is so similar to urfi/misyar in that it compels no one with the force of a legal authority, for both kinds require proof to provide for the state to interfere. Even urfi/misyars have to be recognized by the state before relief can be sought.

There is no protection or justice inherent in such "marriages"; that is one reson why they do not conform to God's law, which requires both.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Here's the catch that Layla is in. She explained before that because she has no recourse in the courts of law in either country, she would have depend on her husband;s good will to do right by her, and/or the good will of the commnunity that recognizes her marriage. In other words, she is not relying on God's law, but that those who care to involve themselves will hold to her best interests. That is relying on human reasoning.

Does a woman have many rights in a marriage such as this kind?

SZSZ I am not talking to you please do not call my name in your posts anymore. I don't have my name on my signature or my ID on here and I'd appreciate it if you don't use it.

Sarah, the law here denies women's rights so how can you compare the rights that Allah has given us and the rights that governments claim to give us? Can you provide any proof from the Quran or Sunnah that a marriage must be registered with the local government?

The companions used to get married and the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam was not even aware of their marriage so how can anyone claim that this act of registering the marriage with the government is from Islam?

If it's not from Islam then making the fatwa that not doing it makes your marriage haraam is bidah (innovation in the religion).

The prophet said that every newly invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is misguidance and every misguidance is in the fire. May Allah guide us all on the straight path and protect us from the fire, ameen.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Filing a K-1 petition is me following the laws of the land.

Why didn't you follow the law of the land when you got "married" in the first place? What's the difference between following man-made law in one instance and not in the other? Ironically, it's a Muslim law you stubbed, now a non-Muslim law you obey, but you post a lot of hooey about not following the kufr. Walking contradiction, you are!

[LebaneseMama 1]

Here's LB's two cents ( disclaimer I am a Muslim but not a scholar this is just what I know from my family and masjid) :

Why do we have weddings when we can all run around getting contracts ? We have weddings with people there to announce our marriage to the world. At my kitab iktab (marriage contract ceremony) there were over 200 people. Those 200 people and then the 400 that were invited to the reception at the hall will tell people that we are married. Pretty soon the entire Tripoli knew that we got married. We got married with both sets of parents there smiling and congratulating us. The people witnessed us getting married legally by the court and islamically by the sheikh. So when people see us walking around, at a restraunt alone, or in the house alone they know we are doing nothing behing anyones back. When Ali came to the U.S. we had our second wedding (where we consummated the marriage) with also about 100 people there. Now our family, friends, and fellow Muslims all know that we are married and have announced our marriage.

Getting married with nobody knowing but you, the man (I won't say husband cuz I dont believe in orfi marriages), the skeikh and two witnesses is HARAM. Say what you want but it is. That is what an orfi marriage is. Us girls that got married with contracts, had weddings, and had the intention of staying together forever had halal weddings. When someone does an orfi marriage just to have a good time and has the intention of getting a divorce the day before his plane leaves to go back home has commited HARAM.

I cannot believe that there are some well educated VJ'ers on here saying that orfi marriages are not haram. All sunni's know that they are haram ... shiites on the other hand believe in them. The best way to have a halal wedding is to get married with the sheikh and register your marriage. That way when you run to get a divorce you will have a HARD time.

Again that was just what I know from my family and masjid ....

[sarah and hicham 3]

Here's the catch that Layla is in. She explained before that because she has no recourse in the courts of law in either country, she would have depend on her husband;s good will to do right by her, and/or the good will of the commnunity that recognizes her marriage. In other words, she is not relying on God's law, but that those who care to involve themselves will hold to her best interests. That is relying on human reasoning.

Does a woman have many rights in a marriage such as this kind?

SZSZ I am not talking to you please do not call my name in your posts anymore. I don't have my name on my signature or my ID on here and I'd appreciate it if you don't use it.

Sarah, the law here denies women's rights so how can you compare the rights that Allah has given us and the rights that governments claim to give us? Can you provide any proof from the Quran or Sunnah that a marriage must be registered with the local government?

The companions used to get married and the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam was not even aware of their marriage so how can anyone claim that this act of registering the marriage with the government is from Islam?

If it's not from Islam then making the fatwa that not doing it makes your marriage haraam is bidah (innovation in the religion).

The prophet said that every newly invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is misguidance and every misguidance is in the fire. May Allah guide us all on the straight path and protect us from the fire, ameen.

VP I find it funny that you tell SZSZ not to talk to you then you ask me to give you proof from the Quran which you know I do not have... can't handle the battle with SZSZ? I see that you are trying to battle against me aparently, because you think you can surely "win" since I am not even Muslim. Why can't you discuss this with her, since obviously she knows what she is talking about. Don't be scared!

Edited September 16, 2006 by sarah and hicham

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sarah, the law here denies women's rights so how can you compare the rights that Allah has given us and the rights that governments claim to give us? Can you provide any proof from the Quran or Sunnah that a marriage must be registered with the local government?

You gave away your rights by not getting registered.

The companions used to get married and the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam was not even aware of their marriage so how can anyone claim that this act of registering the marriage with the government is from Islam?

There were different protections back then. There is no directive stating that the manner of protection remain always the same or that the source be always the same, but it required that you have some source of legal protection and enforcement for a legal contract, and that is what a nikah is.

If it's not from Islam then making the fatwa that not doing it makes your marriage haraam is bidah (innovation in the religion).

The prophet said that every newly invented matter is an innovation and every innovation is misguidance and every misguidance is in the fire. May Allah guide us all on the straight path and protect us from the fire, ameen.

The innovation is in convincing gullible women that to give up their rights in marriage is not a bida. You were in a MUSLIM country and you refused to recognize their authority. I suppose that all 'alim all over the world engage in bida since they make law.

Good post, LebaneseBride!

VP I find it funny that you tell SZSZ not to talk to you then you ask me to give you proof from the Quran which you know I do not have... can't handle the battle with SZSZ? I see that you are trying to battle against me aparently, because you think you can surely "win" since I am not even Muslim. Why can't you discuss this with her, since obviously she knows what she is talking about. Don't be scare!

Isn't this where you say SNAP!

Edited September 16, 2006 by szsz