Hollywood Librul Shows His Temper

[The_Dude 1,142]

I asked my boss yesterday if he'd pay me a year's salary for working only nine months of the year.

He would not.

McDonalds pays it's employees for their hourly wage rate slim, not comperable at all.

[B_J 2,752]

Golden Gate, If I understand correctly your position is that you don't mind what the pay is. What you don't like is that administrators and principals with greater responsibility get paid more. Qualifier on the greater responsibility, it is easier to fire a principal or Superintendent in an under performing school or district than it is a tenured teacher.

I agree to a point that there are issues with the public education system here in America. With the exceptions of teachers are underpaid, thankless job(At least around these parts all kid's bring in a thank you note and gift for the teacher at the end of the year) or overworked.

Being a principal does not necessarily mean greater responsibility and it definitely doesn't mean greater expertise at teaching. I've encountered many, many principals who moved into administration because they hated teaching and weren't any good at it. And now they get to evaluate other teachers. This not all principals, of course, but more than you'd believe.

And, by the way, I've NEVER received a thank you note or gift. I've been threatened, had things stolen, had my car vandalized multiple times, and had my classroom vandalized; but I've never received a gift.

Edited August 4, 2011 by B_J

[Golden Gate 530]

Well, in North Carolina teachers can't organize like that. It is a right to work state. They would be signing their own death warrant.

NCLB was instituted under George W. Bush's administration with his secretary of state from the great state of Texas that then had a major cheating testing scandal and currently is 43rd in the nation with the best graduation rate.

[Zero Sum 305]

look at what we pay congressman and senators. That sure does attract GREAT candidates!

I get what you're saying, but at the same time if you pay them too much, then you run the exact same risk. Teaching should always be about the want/passion.

Honestly, schools should pull funding out of competitive sports and make those extra-curricular only. It would open up a lot more money for teachers salaries. The biggest problem facing school districts and paying teachers more, usually is mis-management of funds. I'd sarifice one of the 5 vice-principles if it gave the 30 teachers in a school an extra $2000/yr.

Dear Lord I agree with you here. 100%. The tears are flowing, I promise they are.

[Zero Sum 305]

I am sure several states have a nice average salary for the people who have been in the district for a longgggg time. You certainly don't start out with that type of income. In North Carolina teachers start at about $29,000. In some states - $25,000.

They have had a salary freeze on teachers for the past four years that I have been in North Carolina, and some days we worked for free. My salary was $30,600, because I had some experience coming in. You don't just work 6.5 hours per day. You have lots of work to do outside of the school day - grading, preparation, teacher workshops, plus teachers put a lot of their own money into supplies.

You don't have any vacation time left after you use them for the vacations you mentioned and they aren't all paid for - the days up to Christmas are workdays. You have to accumulate that time each month, so you can't be taking days off hither thither. You are penalized for taking too many days off during the school year.

This district doesn't necessarily reimburse you for further education.

We had three high school physical education teachers who had 12 students each in their classes. They were alternating giving their student load to one of the teachers each day, so the other two could go play golf all day. Yet they were being paid. Why? Because extra-curricular activities, which these teachers also get paid for, were too important to this district. So, you bet theeey were making a good salary. By the way, my job was eliminated so that they could keep their comfy situation. This is mismanagement by the administration.

My district laid off all the teachers that were about to obtain tenure. So, they continue to hire first year teachers, to keep the salary at it's lowest. As soon as you are about to receive tenure and thus start working for retirement, they drop you. In the meantime, we have administrators (principals) making 3 1/2 times the teachers, then add on their $20,000 bonus. Superintendents come and feed off the carcass of the district until they get a cushier position and move on.

I really don't like when people generalize about my profession. Until you've experienced it yourself, I don't see how qualified you are to criticize the teaching profession. By the way, I don't think any teachers want pity. We just want fairness, and that is what is missing today.

Teachers are complaining today because they are being blamed for all that is going wrong with education. How about the parents who refuse to teach their children how to behave? The bureaucracy of people who know little about being an educator, yet dictate the rules? The administrators who are only looking out for their own self-interests? Many principals have only been teachers a short time and choose to move out of teaching. How qualified are they really to be dictating what teachers should be doing? My assistant principal was a teacher for one year!! How about the nepotism that goes on, to allow certain people to reach positions of power? How about the lack of reliance on homegrown solutions to problems, rather than national dictates on what a particular district needs to focus on? How about the expectation that teachers are given to shove the information down the child's throat so they pass the test? Do it, or you will be gone!

Perhaps some teachers have a great salary. They are people who have been around a long time. That is not the case in the present day for the new teachers.

Great post. Its like averaging the salaries for an entire multinational corporation and expecting people to be content with the earnings of those employees that drive the corporation's operations whereas they make less than 1/10th of what the corporate boards make without their annual bonuses.

I didn't meant to offend you if you were BJ. I don't like that here the teachers can strike and mess up vacations scheduled for mid to late June, because school must run later b/c of their selfishness or that we have to pay extra for special care with daycare providers during a strike or burn vacation time to take off work with the kids. If their motivation is educating our youth as claimed, then they should be like police and fire and not be able to strike then. As for teaching thing and not knowing, my brother is on the school board here. I also have 2 Aunts, 4 cousins and an ex-gf who are all teachers in districts local to my surrounding area. Maybe it's just in the SE Pennsylvania area then where they are well paid and can afford au pair services and high end vehicles. (I'm not bitter at all, I make about 80k a year in the waste and recycling industry for a public/private enterprise.) As I said earlier, they(teachers) knew what salaries were when they decided to pursue that profession. Maybe they have too much outstanding student loans and that's why they want raises...but 48K a year for a 9 month job isn't a low salary. Even the 29/30K a year job isn't that low for a 9 month job and there's plenty of opportunities for summer work and tutoring.

North Carolina teacher(Golden Gate), I don't know conditions there, true. I think you need to come to district I am in and work. Here teachers don't need to cover recess, lunches or bus duty....they have the class room aides do it(was one of sticking points in last contract here). They do get lunch, they get 5 vacation days, 2 personal days and 9 sick days, as well as 100% reimbursement for all courses taken(with a passing grade).

How are those taxes in PA?

[Zero Sum 305]

Just thought I'd add a few numbers to the discussion.

I've worked at three different school districts; all in Texas. I taught a few years at a small rural school where the district paid the state minimum. So, for those interested in teacher salaries, here's an example. The minimum salary for a first year teacher is $27,320. This progresses each year so that after 20 years, the teacher will max out at a salary of $44,270. Never quite made it to the national average of 48K.

I'm currently working at an urban school where I get paid quite a bit more. However, it is a very different environment. After 17 years of teaching experience, I made around $56,000 this year. Of course, the only way I made this much was by teaching night school and by teaching summer school. So, I didn't get the 6.5 hour day, it was more of a 10 hour day, with the same amount of work to take home after the school day. And I didn't have the 3 months of vacation; I had 4 weeks. But of course, those weeks also include any workshops I attend; so it's not necessariy free time.

And by the way, I invite anybody who criticizes teachers to sub at an inner city school for one day. Let me know how it goes; if you're able to finish the day.

Have you considered looking into teaching community college in the evenings? With a Masters you can qualify easily. That's what I did on the side back in those days.

When I taught down South it was first a 10 month work contract with a 12 month pay cycle at 28,800/year.

When I left it was an 11 month work contract with a 12 month pay cycle at 35,600/year.

Including all in-service, development, extra-curriculars, tutoring, PT time, etc.

[Zero Sum 305]

Being a principal does not necessarily mean greater responsibility and it definitely doesn't mean greater expertise at teaching. I've encountered many, many principals who moved into administration because they hated teaching and weren't any good at it. And now they get to evaluate other teachers. This not all principals, of course, but more than you'd believe.

And, by the way, I've NEVER received a thank you note or gift. I've been threatened, had things stolen, had my car vandalized multiple times, and had my classroom vandalized; but I've never received a gift.

Man, I got free food from parents and got to participate in the shaping of critical thinkers- many of whom are successful college graduates and in professional schools. Gives me that deep-satisfaction that surpasses the one time my car got keyed, my classroom broken into, and accused of trying to turn Christian children into Communist Atheists for teaching science.

[B_J 2,752]

Have you considered looking into teaching community college in the evenings? With a Masters you can qualify easily. That's what I did on the side back in those days.

When I taught down South it was first a 10 month work contract with a 12 month pay cycle at 28,800/year.

When I left it was an 11 month work contract with a 12 month pay cycle at 35,600/year.

Including all in-service, development, extra-curriculars, tutoring, PT time, etc.

Yeah, but this is one of those examples of what the profession is really all about.

Our night school is filled with kids that have dropped out, experienced a little of the real world, and decided to come back and finsh school. They're coming from an awful environment but they're really motivated. Teaching night school is probably the most enjoyable part of my job.

Edited August 4, 2011 by B_J

[Zero Sum 305]

Yeah, but this is one of those examples of what the profession is really all about.

Our night school is filled with kids that have dropped out, experienced a little of the real world, and decided to come back and finsh school. They're coming from an awful environment but they're really motivated. Teaching night school is probably the most enjoyable part of my job.

Awesome. I felt the same way with many of the community college kids I taught. There were lots with GEDs, trying to advance in life. The difference was the higher rate of pay for a little less time, so I could actually get some sleep at night.

[Golden Gate 530]

Being a principal does not necessarily mean greater responsibility and it definitely doesn't mean greater expertise at teaching. I've encountered many, many principals who moved into administration because they hated teaching and weren't any good at it. And now they get to evaluate other teachers. This not all principals, of course, but more than you'd believe.

And, by the way, I've NEVER received a thank you note or gift. I've been threatened, had things stolen, had my car vandalized multiple times, and had my classroom vandalized; but I've never received a gift.

I had a principal who was past retirement age, was demoted from the AIG Middle School to elementary, and who was obtaining her doctorate in middle school education. Was hated by a large proportion of the community, but they were unable to get rid of her, because she brought in the NAACP and the board was scared. Who was the president of that chapter of the NAACP? Her husband, of course. She is the meanest, nastiest person I have ever met in my life. Completely manipulative, condescending to parents behind their backs, dismissive of student's complaints, completely self-serving. Some teachers kissed her a$$ (Her posse) and helped undermine other teachers who were honest. One teacher told her she was the biggest bully in the whole school. She made $120,000 per year.

I ran into so many people I didn't even know, who could tell me stories of what she had done to them. She made life miserable for teachers and threatened if they let it get outside HER school (like she owned it), she would create more damage for them. She wouldn't hire a teacher's aide because she said she was a flight risk because she has cancer, and she told her she prayed about it, consulted her husband, and decided this. This teacher's aide went to the personnel director to complain. She could file a lawsuit because this is against the Americans with Disabilities act. She is already doing the job of the TA in the classroom, but she isn't getting the pay or benefits for it. This personnel director deflected the situation and offered her another position, which she didn't want to take, because she has a special role helping a handicapped child in that school and she didn't want to abandon him now.

Any complaints teachers made to the personnel office were addressed in this way: "Well, just don't get yourself fired. The principals have all the power." So, they can do what they want, make up whatever they want about you, and you can do nothing about it. There were several principals in the district who were very much disliked by a large number of the staff, yet nothing could be done about it.

Finally, this principal is out just this summer!! Because the board found a way to get her out - they told her they wouldn't pay her the salary she had, but would go back to her original salary. She wants power, prestige and money, and she quit and went to the neighboring county in South Carolina, Marlboro, which is also known for its corruption

Just an anecdote.

[Golden Gate 530]

Your posts puzzle me sometimes. Can you explain?

[Golden Gate 530]

"Golden Gate, If I understand correctly your position is that you don't mind what the pay is. What you don't like is that administrators and principals with greater responsibility get paid more. Qualifier on the greater responsibility, it is easier to fire a principal or Superintendent in an under performing school or district than it is a tenured teacher."

My Dad was an administrator for 30 years. You don't think I appreciate a good administrator? You bet I do. However, this is the south. It is a much different scenario. THERE ARE NO UNIONS.

My Dad was the chief negotiator on the side of the administration in the district he worked in. He managed to forge a good relationship with the teachers' union and the teachers of the district. Any time I would run into a teacher from that district, they had nothing but praise for my Dad. He had more than 40 years of experience in the district, created the first handicapped program for preschoolers in the state of Michigan, taught high school, was Assistant Director of Special Ed, a school psychologist and a personnel director. I have great respect for what he did and how he handled his employees. He never made close to what some of these principals make down here, where the majority of the school population is on free lunch.

There are a few administrators down here that I respect and who have done great things here. One of them is now going to be the new principal of the high school, which is a complete shambles at the moment, because the school district decided about 6 years ago to accept millions of dollars from the Bill Gates Foundation to create smaller schools, hire 7 principals who were supposed to be renamed 'executive officers' or something of that effect, and lots of consultants from BU to come down and try to institute a program completely foreign to the citizens of this community, and all of it came to waste. The kids now run that school.

Now they are going back to a traditional high school with one principal. This new principal deserves all the great things she gets, and she is a very humble and modest person. She traded places with that horrid lady I mentioned in another post to take over the AIG Program at the middle school. Everywhere she goes, she brings magic.

The majority of administrators, however, I can't think of much to say about them. There sure seem to be a lot of them. It is a top heavy administration, considering the fact that our district had to cut sooooo much these past three years. Still our schools are failing, even with all these so-called well-deserving administrators who apparently deserve their high incomes. Why? Some of them have higher degrees, but they are complete knuckleheads. You can't imagine it, until you experience it. The school board seems to like hiring knuckleheads to run their system. They just hired a new superintendent and he is a complete liar. You can ask my former boss - my high school principal, another of my favorite people. He can tell you all about it. He's worked amidst these people for years and years, and finally retired because of the idiocy of the decisions made here.

It seems you hold a special bitterness for teachers. Perhaps it is something closer to home.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Ban Hammer 13,498]

Your posts puzzle me sometimes. Can you explain?

So?

sew

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I asked my boss yesterday if he'd pay me a year's salary for working only nine months of the year.

He would not.

I expect unlike all teachers you don't do un-remunerated work at home outside of office hours

[Golden Gate 530]

sew

LOL. Yes, I got that, I just thought there was some other sort of secret metaphor I wasn't familiar with.