How to stop fraud in Fiance/Spouse Visas

[pushbrk 12,879]

From a post I made in April regarding the same topic:

"I would allow everyone to adjust status from within the USA since the vast majority already do. In 2008, 367,000 aliens were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a USC. Another 103,000 were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a LPR for a total of 470,000 spouse/child LPRs. Of these 470k, we can assume that about 70,000 to 80,000 were K visa entries based on 2007 and 2008 K visa entries. For the remaining 400,000 they either received an immigrant visa abroad or filed AOS from within the USA. Given that 60% of all new GC recipients already live in the USA, it is fairly safe to assume that a significant number of the remaining 400,000 adjusted status from within the USA

I would eliminate the USCIS petition process for K-visas. It is essentially a pre-approval process to evaluate a person from a security standpoint as admissible to the USA. The US State Department already does this for a significant majority of visas.

In 2008, there were 175 million non-immigrant admissions into the USA. The vast majority of these were from Canada and Mexico with multiple crossings by the same person. Another 39 million were admitted with an I-94 arrival/departure card. Of these 39 million, only 59,000 were admitted as K1/K2/K3/K4. So the K visa entries represent 0.03% of all non-immigrant entries and 0.15% of all I-94 arrivals. The USCIS' first contact with many of these admissions occurred at the border without three months of petition processing. Many came on the VWP or received visas at an embassy without pre-approval by USCIS. So why not do the same for family members of US citizens? Allow them to initially apply at the embassy, get a visa; come to the USA; and then begin the I-130/I-485 process. The odds of one of them being a terrorist is no better or worse than the millions entering without several months of USCIS review."

http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/public...s/yearbook.shtm

The State Dept approves visas for the vast majority of entrants to the USA. Why not for K visas? The USCIS would still have a chance to get their say during the AOS process.

There's more to USCIS adjudication than evaluation of security threats. USCIS petition adjudication is what establishes the eligibility of the foreigner to apply for a family based visa. They are determining the following.

1. The petitioner is a US Citizen

2. That both are now free to marry or for spouse visas that they were both free to marry at the time of the marriage

3. For fiance visas, that the couple has been together in person during the two years prior to petition filing

4. For fiance visas, that the couple has stated their intention to marry

5. That the petitioner has no disqualifying criminal record (AWA) or for fiance has also complied with IMBRA

The State Department, is responsible for evaluating the visa application only after the USCIS has determined the foreigner is eligible to apply. USCIS, has numerous other immigration related functions besides family based immigration, that a Consular IV unit abroad cannot do.

Bear in mind we have 12 million examples of people in the USA who were willing to remain in the USA illegally after illegal entry. What makes anybody think the fraudsters will go home if they don't get green cards, baffles the logical mind.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Even the people of the "third world countries" deserve an equal chance for a visa. Not everyone is a bad seed, not every couple with "red flags" are fraud. The whole system needs a revamping, or it will continue to cause a lot of heartache, and injustice. Lie detectors were a suggestion, if someone has a better idea, then let's hear it, then move on to write a petition, and make the change. Please stop pointing fingers, for it is not solving the existing problems in the system.

I suggest you look at the number of visas broken down by country.. "third world countries" make up a huge percentage.. More Nigerians received greencards last year than Canadians.. Source

By region and percentages that received greencards in 2010:

Africa 9.7%

Asia 40.5%

Europe 9.4%

Caribbean 12.4%

Central America 4.6%

Other North American 18.5%

South America 8.9%

As far as a better idea than lie detectors: The current system is better than lie detectors.

So far, what is being said here is: "What is good for the goose, is not good for the gander!" Since, our loved ones are from Nigeria, or Muslim countries, then a CO has every right to judge and prosecute them on 'gut feeling" and the fate of our relationships is best left in the hands of these COS with "God syndrome", who obviously have 100% error free "gut feeling" to rely on. It is okay for the CO to make us miserable, as long as, no fees go up, or changes are made, or others are inconvenienced.

Our fees have already gone up to support these countries.. The process is already longer for everyone because of these countries..

I would not describe the COs as having a "God syndrome" I would describe them as having a very heavy responsibility and burden. They often let people through that they should not because no human being likes to dole out rejection to potentially honest people every day. They have a job to do, it is not easy... They make mistakes. There are millions of fraudulent visas that have been given out that can attest to that and many that have been denied that were honest. The system is not perfect.

For those, who already have their loved ones here with them, our unnecessary suffering seem insignificant or irrelevant and inappropriate to complain about.

Who can say, that each marriage, which has occurred with a Canadian, Australian, Vietnamese or Filipina has been 100% successful? Have they not experienced fraud at all?

REALLY???

Nobody is suggesting that MENA countries are the only place where fraud is occurring. The amount of effort required to keep the fraud at say.. 20% is much higher for many countries. That really is what it boils down to.. The first 80% of fraud is relatively easy to spot but to improve from that point becomes more and more time consuming and more and more expensive.

The point, which some of us have been attempting to make, regardless of the way it has been presented, it has been overlooked over and over again. Everyone is so quick to state their opinion, but no one has a clear, or constructive solution for the existing problems, which most of us are facing.

It truly saddens me to see, how as human beings, arrogance prevents us from caring for each other equally. I often wonder, how many of the existing "Americans" in America today, would be enjoyed the "American Dream" themselves, if their immigrate ancestors who came here years ago, had been denied themselves by a CO on a "gut feelings" and due to that decision, how many of the members here would of been living, in third world countries themselves right now?

I am sure, I will be crucified for saying this. The responses given so far, seem good, but lacks compassion and solutions for the injustice which some of us are facing. Some get so wrapped up in logic, that the feelings of others are overlooked. Love is felt, compassion is given, and logic is powerful, specially, when it can make a difference. A balance of all human feelings is in need here to make a change, which will work for everyone.

There were over one million greencards given out last year... over *one million*. How does this compare to other countries? Among the top 20 countries for people receiving greencards in 2010: Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Cuba, Pakistan, India, Vietnam.. The issue is not about exclusion of people of a certain faith or color or any of the other hinted at discriminations I see in these threads.. This is pure and simple fighting visa fraud. Unfortunately good people that do not deserve it face burdens and indignities because of the high fraud rate in their countries.. still the fraudster get through. I do not know what the solution is but nothing that has been suggested is better than the current system.

Edited August 8, 2011 by OnMyWayID

[pushbrk 12,879]

I suggest you look at the number of visas broken down by country.. "third world countries" make up a huge percentage.. More Nigerians received greencards last year than Canadians.. Source

By region and percentages that received greencards in 2010:

Africa 9.7%

Asia 40.5%

Europe 9.4%

Caribbean 12.4%

Central America 4.6%

Other North American 18.5%

South America 8.9%

As far as a better idea than lie detectors: The current system is better than lie detectors.

Our fees have already gone up to support these countries.. The process is already longer for everyone because of these countries..

I would not describe the COs as having a "God syndrome" I would describe them as having a very heavy responsibility and burden. They often let people through that they should not because no human being likes to dole out rejection to potentially honest people every day. They have a job to do, it is not easy... They make mistakes. There are millions of fraudulent visas that have been given out that can attest to that and many that have been denied that were honest. The system is not perfect.

Nobody is suggesting that MENA countries are the only place where fraud is occurring. The amount of effort required to keep the fraud at say.. 20% is much higher for many countries. That really is what it boils down to.. The first 80% of fraud is relatively easy to spot but to improve from that point becomes more and more time consuming and more and more expensive.

There were over one million greencards given out last year... over *one million*. How does this compare to other countries? Among the top 20 countries for people receiving greencards in 2010: Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Cuba, Pakistan, India, Vietnam.. The issue is not about exclusion of people of a certain faith or color or any of the other hinted at discriminations I see in these threads.. This is pure and simple fighting visa fraud. Unfortunately good people that do not deserve it face burdens and indignities because of the high fraud rate in their countries.. still the fraudster get through. I do not know what the solution is but nothing that has been suggested is better than the current system.

Good post. One thing I'll add again though is that many of the US Citizens whose spouse or fiance's visas were denied unjustifiably are simply wrong. They were being used/scammed and just didn't know it and may never accept it. Some legitimate couples are denied. Far more often, only one of the couple thinks their relationship is valid, the one that is wrong.

[rin and john 71]

There's more to USCIS adjudication than evaluation of security threats. USCIS petition adjudication is what establishes the eligibility of the foreigner to apply for a family based visa. They are determining the following.

1. The petitioner is a US Citizen

2. That both are now free to marry or for spouse visas that they were both free to marry at the time of the marriage

3. For fiance visas, that the couple has been together in person during the two years prior to petition filing

4. For fiance visas, that the couple has stated their intention to marry

5. That the petitioner has no disqualifying criminal record (AWA) or for fiance has also complied with IMBRA

The State Department, is responsible for evaluating the visa application only after the USCIS has determined the foreigner is eligible to apply. USCIS, has numerous other immigration related functions besides family based immigration, that a Consular IV unit abroad cannot do.

Bear in mind we have 12 million examples of people in the USA who were willing to remain in the USA illegally after illegal entry. What makes anybody think the fraudsters will go home if they don't get green cards, baffles the logical mind.

The point I was making is that the percentages of AOS applications for people without a K visa or CR1/IR1 is more than 50%, so the majority of AOS applicants are doing so from within the USA. Those applying for a visa to enter the USA and subsequently apply for AOS are no more/no less a threat.

1-4 above are just as easily confirmed at the consulate as it is at USCIS. I am sure No. 5 could also be handled by the State Dept, as well.

I agree the USCIS serves other immigration related functions that a consular could not, a visa for a spouse shouldn't be one of them.

And to your last point, USCIS should not waste their limited resources adjudicating K visas, Take those resources and work on border control for the 12 million (over 85% of illegals are from Mexico and Central America).

[pushbrk 12,879]

The point I was making is that the percentages of AOS applications for people without a K visa or CR1/IR1 is more than 50%, so the majority of AOS applicants are doing so from within the USA. Those applying for a visa to enter the USA and subsequently apply for AOS are no more/no less a threat.

1-4 above are just as easily confirmed at the consulate as it is at USCIS. I am sure No. 5 could also be handled by the State Dept, as well.

I agree the USCIS serves other immigration related functions that a consular could not, a visa for a spouse shouldn't be one of them.

And to your last point, USCIS should not waste their limited resources adjudicating K visas, Take those resources and work on border control for the 12 million (over 85% of illegals are from Mexico and Central America).

Those already here when they apply for AOS are in one of two categories. Most, arrived here legally from countries where either no visa was required to "visit" the USA or from a country where obtaining a visa was relatively easy because of either low fraud or having strong ties to their home country. The second biggest category is those adjusting from K visas, where they first went through Consular processing as it is today Anybody in either of those categories fits there BECAUSE there is little chance of fraud in their cases. The subject matter here is rooting out fraudulent family based visas applicants BEFORE they get to the USA, you know, "Secure the borders first." and all. For the most part, people willing to enter fraudulent relationships to get to the USA are equally willing to remain her illegally after entry.

[rin and john 71]

Those already here when they apply for AOS are in one of two categories. Most, arrived here legally from countries where either no visa was required to "visit" the USA or from a country where obtaining a visa was relatively easy because of either low fraud or having strong ties to their home country. The second biggest category is those adjusting from K visas, where they first went through Consular processing as it is today Anybody in either of those categories fits there BECAUSE there is little chance of fraud in their cases. The subject matter here is rooting out fraudulent family based visas applicants BEFORE they get to the USA, you know, "Secure the borders first." and all. For the most part, people willing to enter fraudulent relationships to get to the USA are equally willing to remain her illegally after entry.

OK, so what about DCF? What about DV Lottery (approximately 50,000/yr)? Done entirely at the consulate.

All I am saying is I don't believe that USCIS does any better at weeding out "bad" immigrants than the State Department does (in fact, I'd probably give the nod to the State Department as they have more local knowledge).

So in the name of government efficiency, I'd eliminate K1s and do all spousal visas as DCFs. Border security and fraud would not be significantly impacted.

[pushbrk 12,879]

OK, so what about DCF? What about DV Lottery (approximately 50,000/yr)? Done entirely at the consulate.

All I am saying is I don't believe that USCIS does any better at weeding out "bad" immigrants than the State Department does (in fact, I'd probably give the nod to the State Department as they have more local knowledge).

So in the name of government efficiency, I'd eliminate K1s and do all spousal visas as DCFs. Border security and fraud would not be significantly impacted.

DCF is done in country but the petition approval process is the same as when done stateside and done by USCIS, not State. Eliminate K1's. Yeah, that will fly high, not.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Rin and John, I like that suggestion. USCIS mostly puts their stamp of approval on petitions anyway and does not really scrutinize petitions.

How many times do we hear of them denying petitions ? Rarely, unless obvious factors are involved which can be easily processed from the posts.

Every eligibility requirement check can be implemented at the foreign posts with reform and revamping the system.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

LoveNigarmostyle, I think some good suggestions were brought out and the fact remains clear to those who are in the trenches that things need to

change. There is always room for improvement for any government entity and certainly for USCIS and DOS. Awareness and insight comes before action to change.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

So in the name of government efficiency, I'd eliminate K1s and do all spousal visas as DCFs. Border security and fraud would not be significantly impacted.

Consulates only accept petitions in a DCF - they don't adjudicate them. Also, USCIS is gradually eliminating DCF. Beginning August 15th you won't be able to submit a DCF filing in any country doesn't have a USCIS field office:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=c38ed0ed58b81310VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=e7801c2c9be44210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

There are currently only 25 countries with USCIS field offices. For all other countries, you'll have to submit I-130's to the Chicago lockbox, even if the petitioner is a resident of the beneficiary's country.

Further, there is just as much fraud with spousal visas as there is with K1's.

[rin and john 71]

Consulates only accept petitions in a DCF - they don't adjudicate them. Also, USCIS is gradually eliminating DCF. Beginning August 15th you won't be able to submit a DCF filing in any country doesn't have a USCIS field office:

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

There are currently only 25 countries with USCIS field offices. For all other countries, you'll have to submit I-130's to the Chicago lockbox, even if the petitioner is a resident of the beneficiary's country.

Further, there is just as much fraud with spousal visas as there is with K1's.

Just because they are eliminating DCF, does not mean that we as a country are not capable of processing visas at the consulate level. The thread was about "blue sky" ideas. If we can process 50,000 DV visas (some in more "difficult" areas - over 3,000 last year in Nigeria alone) at the State Department, then we can process K visas there, as well. The chances of fraud do not change significantly since it is currently the consulate that ferrets out most fraud (at least prior to entering the USA) via an actual interview. The USCIS processes forms, never talks to either petitioner or beneficiary. Fill out the form correctly, meet certain requirements on background, petitiion approved. I suspect very little fraud is caught on I-129F or I-130 applications.

As to the K1s, OK keep them, doesn't change the main point of the State Dept being capable of processing visas for immediate families.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

If you let the CO's at Lagos adjuacate the petition very few of us would get anywhere. It is only when the petition is returned and correctly reexamined under the immigration laws and sent back that a large section of the Lagos crowd gets approved. The only fair and common part of the journey is the US part.

[jenkatx 52]

If you let the CO's at Lagos adjuacate the petition very few of us would get anywhere. It is only when the petition is returned and correctly reexamined under the immigration laws and sent back that a large section of the Lagos crowd gets approved. The only fair and common part of the journey is the US part.

Very on point.

[rin and john 71]

If you let the CO's at Lagos adjuacate the petition very few of us would get anywhere. It is only when the petition is returned and correctly reexamined under the immigration laws and sent back that a large section of the Lagos crowd gets approved. The only fair and common part of the journey is the US part.

Almost 25% of LPRs from Nigeria the past several years are from the Diversity Visa lottery. Conducted by the State Department without USCIS involvement. Would assume most are done in Lagos, although some would be Nigerians already in the USA which would go through a local USCIS office.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

DV lottery is initially processed in Kentucky which acts like NVC and then processed at the consulate. They collect fees from the entire family group and then interview the winner to determine if they are qualified. So after collecting thousands of dollars from people where the average income is about 1300 they deny aboiut 40% of those people for not being educationally qualified. I have seen the despondant families leaving their interview. They have borrowed money to pay the fees and now aer left with a lifetime of debt.