How to stop fraud in Fiance/Spouse Visas

[jenkatx 52]

Then may be your efforts would be better spent on trying to appeal with that specific embassy, rather than overhaul the whole USCIS approach. It is not USCIS that causes denials at Nigerian Embassy.

Lie detector would be cool, but it is not always correct (have you seen "Lie to me"?)

I do not need to appeal, we are not even to interview yet. The problem is that it is not just Lagos that is having these issues. There is fraud that comes through every embassy. What I wanted to focus on was the process at the consulate/embassy level which is controlled through the Department of State. I believe that is where the fraudulent or genuine intentions of a beneficiary are best detected before they get to the US. Some of the process is law which can be changed and some is simply procedure controlled through DOS and the actual embassy. If we show them how this is affecting us (the USC) and present a plan with some valid well thought out ideas to make the system better, then possibly we can help those who go behind us in this process.

[jenkatx 52]

People who commit fraud to enter the USA as a fiance or spouse, will simply disappear to remain in the US as illegal aliens. Would you like 12 million examples?

Possibly, but it is still a better proposal then 2 years then a simple yes or no.

[Caladan 19]

I have to say that one thing that concerns me about this suggestion brainstorm is that as petitioners and beneficiaries, we have only a small slice of the relevant data. Here are some questions to which we'd need to know the answers before suggesting solutions:

1) What percentage of cases are fraudulent? What percentage of cases being fraudulent is within acceptable limits?

2) Of the cases that are fraudulent, how many of them are cases where the U.S. citizen is aiding and abetting the fraud? How many are cases where the U.S. citizen has been taken advantage of?

3) What is common to the fraudulent cases? (I believe that the most common use of the marriage visa is for people who actually have ties to the "home country", e.g., a first-generation American marries a girl from his parents' country of origin. Are these more or less likely to be fraudulent than the stereotypical mail-order-bride marriage?) What factors can be identified before the visa is granted?

4) What percentage of removal of conditions are granted via a) VAWA or b) self-petition? (No need to close down this option and make life more difficult for legitimate immigrants if it's not a source of fraud.)

5) How many of the fraudulent cases required co-sponsors?

Here I think most of us are at sea with no data. It'd be like trying to make recommendations on how to make McDonald's more profitable when all you know is that you ate a Big Mac once and really like the fries.

I have to say in general I'm wary of anything that ups the costs on someone who already is here with conditional residency. First is the potential for abuse of the immigrant who finds him or herself in a bad situation, and I don't think that can be discounted (especially since VAWA isnt' the cakewalk some believe). Second, I suspect that in an open society like we have, anything that happens after the person is here is disproportionately likely to be a huge pain in the #### for those doing it legitimately (it makes me sick to think that under these brainstormed proposals, I would have a whole 'nother year to prove that my relationship is legitimate) without actually reducing fraud.

Honestly, I think that what would probably help is more funding. More funding = more time to be spent with each petition, more ability to do home visits, &c in the places that are high fraud, more review. I'd rather see that before a more onerous process.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I just posted on the Off Topic forum about how to improve the Immigration process. I guess this is a good place as any to throw my ideas on the wall and see if they stick:

For the fraud part, the problem is no matter what you put in place people will always find a way to circumvent the system, if you want something bad enough you can lie, cheat, and steal your way into it. If you set a time constraint on the relationship, you'll weed out the weaker players, but the rest will just wait patiently until their time comes. I spent 9 years overseas and I can't tell you how many Sailors would meet these young ladies in foreign ports and spend months, sometimes years corresponding with them, only to marry them and find out the hard way they were had.

For the legitimate lovers, maybe a 6 month requirement of actual dating time(pictures together, email, chat, and phone log). But the problem is if you don't have the funds to travel over to the fiance's country or vice versa, it will hurt you in the long run.

USCIS: I don't know what their procedures are over there, but they need to be revamped to become more effecient. There is no excuse as to why an I-130 or I-129 should take longer than 3 months tops. Hell security clearances don't take this long. If there is something in either of your background that requires that much screening, the petetioner should be notified by letter/email detailing what the problem is and if/when it can be resolved. Also they should have something in-place that spouses can get a temporary visa to visit their SO. Visitor visas aren't %100 and a waste of money if you apply for one and get denied. And if they grant this temp spouse visa, don't allow the AOS to happen until they get their CR1, that will negate anyone coming over and automatic applying for it. This way couples can spend time with each other, make the visa 3 months max, I'd rather have that than nothing at all. Also if they come on the temp visa, hold both of them responsible for the return of the FN, impose a hefty fine on the petitoner and a ban on the spouse for 5 years if they overstay. Make sure they can't get a SSN or work permit until they are given a CR1, this will make working or living harder over here if they do decide to scam, and the petetioner will try a bit harder to make sure they aren't caught in this mess as to not pay the fine or get into trouble down the line if they have to petetion someone else later.

I've seen horror stories of relationships/marriages falling apart because the first step takes +2 years to complete. I know love is eternal and you should be with the person you love for all time, but we are all human and have basic needs for affection and itimacy. And in that time the spouse can't see their loved ones because they can't get a visitor visa and the PT can't get vacation time off. How back logged can you be to take that much time to approve a petetion? They say we need jobs in America, hire some more people to get the job done.

Last thought: the interview process should be dual-hatted, to weed out fraud AND to make sure the relationship is real. Some of these embassy seem to have the first part down pat, they have forgotten about the second part. I don't care how much you love someone, if someone is grilling you relentlessly, you will flub, and if you fail because of this then you are that much longer apart.....

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I have to say that one thing that concerns me about this suggestion brainstorm is that as petitioners and beneficiaries, we have only a small slice of the relevant data. Here are some questions to which we'd need to know the answers before suggesting solutions:

1) What percentage of cases are fraudulent? What percentage of cases being fraudulent is within acceptable limits?

2) Of the cases that are fraudulent, how many of them are cases where the U.S. citizen is aiding and abetting the fraud? How many are cases where the U.S. citizen has been taken advantage of?

3) What is common to the fraudulent cases? (I believe that the most common use of the marriage visa is for people who actually have ties to the "home country", e.g., a first-generation American marries a girl from his parents' country of origin. Are these more or less likely to be fraudulent than the stereotypical mail-order-bride marriage?) What factors can be identified before the visa is granted?

4) What percentage of removal of conditions are granted via a) VAWA or b) self-petition? (No need to close down this option and make life more difficult for legitimate immigrants if it's not a source of fraud.)

5) How many of the fraudulent cases required co-sponsors?

Here I think most of us are at sea with no data. It'd be like trying to make recommendations on how to make McDonald's more profitable when all you know is that you ate a Big Mac once and really like the fries.

I have to say in general I'm wary of anything that ups the costs on someone who already is here with conditional residency. First is the potential for abuse of the immigrant who finds him or herself in a bad situation, and I don't think that can be discounted (especially since VAWA isnt' the cakewalk some believe). Second, I suspect that in an open society like we have, anything that happens after the person is here is disproportionately likely to be a huge pain in the #### for those doing it legitimately (it makes me sick to think that under these brainstormed proposals, I would have a whole 'nother year to prove that my relationship is legitimate) without actually reducing fraud.

Honestly, I think that what would probably help is more funding. More funding = more time to be spent with each petition, more ability to do home visits, &c in the places that are high fraud, more review. I'd rather see that before a more onerous process.

If the data you're suggesting actually existed it would mean they detected each and every fraudulent case, and never ever wrongfully accused a sincere couple of being involved in a fraud. If that were true then there would be no need for reform - the system would be working perfectly just as it is.

Nobody knows what percentage of cases involve fraud because many never get caught. That's like asking how many illegal aliens are in the US - all you'll get are estimates because nobody has ever counted them, and if you asked them to stand up and be counted I'd bet a majority would decline. I've heard numbers as low as 8 million and as high as 20 million. What we do know is that the fraud problem is significant enough that the US Congress has felt the need to revise the immigration law because of it on more than one occasion, and the consulates in countries where it's perceived to be a big problem scrutinize each and every case with a microscope.

You don't need solid statistics in order to know what sort of fraud is being perpetrated. We hear about visa fraud cases all the time, some individual cases and some large scale organized fraud rings. The investigative methods used by the consulates and the sort of questions they ask at the interviews makes it reasonably clear what they're looking for.

Your McDonalds analogy is flawed because you described a case where everything was ok. A better analogy would be if you went to McDonalds one time and got a moldy hamburger and cold french fries. Would you need to know exactly how many moldy hamburgers they sold in order to recommend how they might improve their quality?

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Sometimes consular officers interview wide-eyed, love-stricken Americans who have no idea that the person they have just married or are about to marry has a track record of visa denials, fraud, or immigration violations and consular officers often have to decide how much information to divulge to the American about their spouses’ immigration track records. ( Quoted from the article with link given in this thread ).

Why does the CO "often have to decide how much information to divulge to the American about their spouses' track record" ?

Who in their right mind would continue to go forward with the case, coming face to face with this kind of information that the SO was hiding or lied about ?

If privacy rights are a concern then have the beneficiary waive that right to privacy and let them sign a statement that petitioners will be informed of any negative background check or investigation. I for one would be highly pissed being lied to and would end it right there and then.

Some food for thought in this thread and some good suggestions and some not so good ideas. After all is said and done, we the petitioners, must be responsible enough to thoroughly make our own investigations and checks with the varies tools available. We must check into the life of the one we consider dating early on. Not after we are knee deep into the relationship but with a sober mind approach the object of our affection with a healthy amount of reality "checks". ( No pun intended).

Hopefully sooner than later would we see a pattern that emerges in regards to the beneficiary being shady or of good character and intentions. No one can keep it up for too long....true colors usually show and instead of being in denial with certain things we must be diligent and observant. If some say trust is more important than investigating then I say be my guest with trust, I will investigate ahead of trust. Not from a place of paranoia but from a place of caution. I would do the same here with a USC, how much more with someone from a foreign country.

We will ultimately be the ones who must live with the consequences of our choices. We must make choices that we, to the best of our knowledge, can be accountable to. Wasting years to complain to the USCIS about deporting someone who has wronged you.....what will it accomplish but a bitter quest for revenge for something you allowed to be swept up in.

In conclusion of my thoughts I want to add that the regulations and requirements need to be transparent and be followed by the CO and USCIS without relying on cultural customs or gut feelings that something may be off. Make it plain and follow it plainly or change the requirements.

Double standards and feelings have no place in the system, reasonable doubt and factual evidence need to supersede stereotypical cultural norms.

Cultures change. I am not the typical (naturalized) American inside a box, I don't run with the herd, you will find me on the road less traveled, so why should the beneficiary be judged by cultural norms that stereotype preferences or lifestyle ? Individuals emerge if everyone is treated as a person not as a Nationality.

If every T has been crossed, every i has been dotted, long AP brings no fraud to light, interviews have been satisfactory, approve instead of going with a "gut feeling" and sending the case back.

A basis of factual evidence must be the foundation to reach a fair and solid decision. If a good reason to deny has been found, let the petitioner know immediately not months or a year later via a NOIR/NOID and even these don't surface many times. Send or hand a letter immediately from the interviewing CO at the post to the petitioner and beneficiary with the reasons for denial BASED ON FACTUAL EVIDENCE. Stop shrouding the denial in a veil of mystery like a power trip on steroids and be transparent and timely is my suggestion.

This would lift a huge amount of stress and anxiety which is unreasonable hardship in my opinion and would give us a clear direction on how to proceed or not to proceed. In this sense, as it is now, the system is vague, non transparent and broken. Is transparency, factual evidence, and a decent time frame too much to ask ?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Some food for thought in this thread and some good suggestions and some not so good ideas. After all is said and done, we the petitioners, must be responsible enough to thoroughly make our own investigations and checks with the varies tools available. We must check into the life of the one we consider dating early on. Not after we are knee deep into the relationship but with a sober mind approach the object of our affection with a healthy amount of reality "checks". ( No pun intended).

In conclusion of my thoughts I want to add that the regulations and requirements need to be transparent and be followed by the CO and USCIS without relying on cultural customs or gut feelings that something may be off. Make it plain and follow it plainly or change the requirements.

Double standards and feelings have no place in the system, reasonable doubt and factual evidence need to supersede stereotypical cultural norms.

Cultures change. I am not the typical (naturalized) American inside a box, I don't run with the herd, you will find me on the road less traveled, so why should the beneficiary be judged by cultural norms that stereotype preferences or lifestyle ? Individuals emerge if everyone is treated as a person not as a Nationality.

I agree with some of what you said but I think you could not be more wrong on the above statement. You basically want to have a strict set of guidelines for the CO and USCIS to follow and rely on the USC for the "gut" feeling and some of the investigation. Major problems with this:

If the CO has to follow strict guidelines and has no leeway then fraudsters have a blueprint to beat the system and if you tighten those guidelines up enough to deny most fraudsters then a good percentage of genuine people would be denied... and since the CO is following strict guidelines he/she can't simply intervene for those that do not follow the standard path. A knowledgeable CO is probably the single best asset we have against fraudsters.

Relying on the USC to catch fraud usually only works after the fact. First some of them are part of the the fraud so if the USCIS and CO can do nothing but follow a set of strict of requirements then the fraudsters can simply read those requirements. Second the USC is in the role of advocate for his/her spouse. People in love do crazy things and are probably the worst source for detecting fraud - until it is too late. People are fooled all the time - all the time - relying on their judgment in the process is not reliable.

The system as you describe it would either let in many more fraudsters or lead to denials of many more genuine people.. There is no middle ground possible.

Edited August 6, 2011 by OnMyWayID

[pushbrk 12,884]

I agree with some of what you said but I think you could not be more wrong on the above statement. You basically want to have a strict set of guidelines for the CO and USCIS to follow and rely on the USC for the "gut" feeling and some of the investigation. Major problems with this:

If the CO has to follow strict guidelines and has no leeway then fraudsters have a blueprint to beat the system and if you tighten those guidelines up enough to deny most fraudsters then a good percentage of genuine people would be denied... and since the CO is following strict guidelines he/she can't simply intervene for those that do not follow the standard path. A knowledgeable CO is probably the single best asset we have against fraudsters.

Relying on the USC to catch fraud usually only works after the fact. First some of them are part of the the fraud so if the USCIS and CO can do nothing but follow a set of strict of requirements then the fraudsters can simply read those requirements. Second the USC is in the role of advocate for his/her spouse. People in love do crazy things and are probably the worst source for detecting fraud - until it is too late. People are fooled all the time - all the time - relying on their judgment in the process is not reliable.

The system as you describe it would either let in many more fraudsters or lead to denials of many more genuine people.. There is no middle ground possible.

Bingo!

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

Sometimes consular officers interview wide-eyed, love-stricken Americans who have no idea that the person they have just married or are about to marry has a track record of visa denials, fraud, or immigration violations and consular officers often have to decide how much information to divulge to the American about their spouses’ immigration track records. ( Quoted from the article with link given in this thread ).

Why does the CO "often have to decide how much information to divulge to the American about their spouses' track record" ?

Who in their right mind would continue to go forward with the case, coming face to face with this kind of information that the SO was hiding or lied about ?

If privacy rights are a concern then have the beneficiary waive that right to privacy and let them sign a statement that petitioners will be informed of any negative background check or investigation. I for one would be highly pissed being lied to and would end it right there and then.

Some food for thought in this thread and some good suggestions and some not so good ideas. After all is said and done, we the petitioners, must be responsible enough to thoroughly make our own investigations and checks with the varies tools available. We must check into the life of the one we consider dating early on. Not after we are knee deep into the relationship but with a sober mind approach the object of our affection with a healthy amount of reality "checks". ( No pun intended).

Hopefully sooner than later would we see a pattern that emerges in regards to the beneficiary being shady or of good character and intentions. No one can keep it up for too long....true colors usually show and instead of being in denial with certain things we must be diligent and observant. If some say trust is more important than investigating then I say be my guest with trust, I will investigate ahead of trust. Not from a place of paranoia but from a place of caution. I would do the same here with a USC, how much more with someone from a foreign country.

We will ultimately be the ones who must live with the consequences of our choices. We must make choices that we, to the best of our knowledge, can be accountable to. Wasting years to complain to the USCIS about deporting someone who has wronged you.....what will it accomplish but a bitter quest for revenge for something you allowed to be swept up in.

In conclusion of my thoughts I want to add that the regulations and requirements need to be transparent and be followed by the CO and USCIS without relying on cultural customs or gut feelings that something may be off. Make it plain and follow it plainly or change the requirements.

Double standards and feelings have no place in the system, reasonable doubt and factual evidence need to supersede stereotypical cultural norms.

Cultures change. I am not the typical (naturalized) American inside a box, I don't run with the herd, you will find me on the road less traveled, so why should the beneficiary be judged by cultural norms that stereotype preferences or lifestyle ? Individuals emerge if everyone is treated as a person not as a Nationality.

If every T has been crossed, every i has been dotted, long AP brings no fraud to light, interviews have been satisfactory, approve instead of going with a "gut feeling" and sending the case back.

A basis of factual evidence must be the foundation to reach a fair and solid decision. If a good reason to deny has been found, let the petitioner know immediately not months or a year later via a NOIR/NOID and even these don't surface many times. Send or hand a letter immediately from the interviewing CO at the post to the petitioner and beneficiary with the reasons for denial BASED ON FACTUAL EVIDENCE. Stop shrouding the denial in a veil of mystery like a power trip on steroids and be transparent and timely is my suggestion.

This would lift a huge amount of stress and anxiety which is unreasonable hardship in my opinion and would give us a clear direction on how to proceed or not to proceed. In this sense, as it is now, the system is vague, non transparent and broken. Is transparency, factual evidence, and a decent time frame too much to ask ?

I could not have said it better! well written.

Why does an Embassy need to do three interviews to tell "the beneficiary" that they are denied. Why not simplify things? tell them on that dreadful first visit through the gates of hell, that no way today this visa is going to be issued to you buddy. Tell them, why they have been denied,if there is a concrete evidence, present them to both the beneficiary and the petitioner. Deny on the first interview, don't play the the AP or AR games for months or years. No need to interview them over and over to eventually find something, which could make the denial stick. Don't base denials on gut feelings, or because the beneficiary falls into a certain category, or comes from a specific country, which meets "the must deny" category.

I agree with you completely, if there is anything that is in the beneficiary's file, which proves him/her fraudulent, then by all means inform the petitioner, by a letter or email right a way. Why go through the bureaucratic nonsense, why make people wait and suffer unnecessarily, when you have solid proof. Why does a petitioner need to waiting for the NOID to arrive, when these days there is such a thing as emails, scans? if there is hard evidence on the CO's desk? why can't that information be made available to the petitioner right away?

[dwheels76 5,468]

Great questions and suggestions all but I do have a question. Why does it seem the K1 is such a privilege and they just walk through with all the amenities and K3 we have to prove everything.

I am married to a Nigerian, I much older (I the woman)we know the red flags and have the ammo to state our case. those of us who know we are legit know what we need to show and prove. I have 369 pages to frint load that will leave them in tears trust me when I file this.

This visa stuff is all new to me but one thing I see is no real time together meet, greet, visit, marry submit application. I think immigration feels you love each other dang it spend time together. So there has to be some more time together. I came for two months I will have been here now 5 months leaving at end of month. I know that is not going to be the norm but time helps.

Also US citizens should also be applying for permanent status in their hunni's country. I got mine on my first visit when they told me it was impossible. (Never say that to me.)

I have known of american women who also do this marrying foreigners and they get paid very well. That brings me to #2. the instant divorce must stop. How the heck you letting a immigrant in and as soon as they receive green card they can divorce and stay in the country and I the citizen still have to support their butt if they choose not to work. How is that even fair, right or legal. I have meet a few women who the day they got the green card for husbands they were served divorce papers.

Evidence really means nothing I mean phone text, emails, what does that prove if you know that's what they want to see you send like a million a day and show a long relationship and they go wow they are a real couple they talk a million times a day.

How about more swore affidavits from the immigrants family. Notorized. If they fake it will be hard for them some of these guys know no one. Make it mandatory for them to bring an immediate family member to interview.

One thing I do know in Nigeria getting a bogus birth certificate and drivers license and than passport is so so easy its ridicules. So he could be married to 5 other women under 5 other names who knows and getting to US to meet up with someone else.

Make immigrants have to check in regular when they do get here also. Like a parole officer does checks.

Well I will be filing on September 6th. High fraud country, I am older than he is. But we are for real and legit.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Great questions and suggestions all but I do have a question. Why does it seem the K1 is such a privilege and they just walk through with all the amenities and K3 we have to prove everything.

Not sure what you mean here.. The K-1s skip some of the NVC pain but they have to go through it later and they have a greater chance of denial.

I am married to a Nigerian, I much older (I the woman) we know the red flags and have the ammo to state our case. those of us who know we are legit know what we need to show and prove. I have 369 pages to frint load that will leave them in tears trust me when I file this.

The forums are littered with people who "knew they were legit" and found out later that it was not true - one woman recently on here was married for over six years before she was able to bring her guy over only to find he was a fraud the entire time.

This visa stuff is all new to me but one thing I see is no real time together meet, greet, visit, marry submit application. I think immigration feels you love each other dang it spend time together. So there has to be some more time together. I came for two months I will have been here now 5 months leaving at end of month. I know that is not going to be the norm but time helps.

Also US citizens should also be applying for permanent status in their hunni's country. I got mine on my first visit when they told me it was impossible. (Never say that to me.)

Why? That is extra effort and paperwork and time and money for something that is not needed.. You did it so everyone should do it...

Evidence really means nothing I mean phone text, emails, what does that prove if you know that's what they want to see you send like a million a day and show a long relationship and they go wow they are a real couple they talk a million times a day.

How about more swore affidavits from the immigrants family. Notorized. If they fake it will be hard for them some of these guys know no one. Make it mandatory for them to bring an immediate family member to interview.

One thing I do know in Nigeria getting a bogus birth certificate and drivers license and than passport is so so easy its ridicules. So he could be married to 5 other women under 5 other names who knows and getting to US to meet up with someone else.

Hmm.. so people who's family and friends disapprove should not be allowed to immigrate? You are concerned that it isn't fair that these men come here and instantly divorce and you have to pay for others mistakes... Here is a way to stop 80% of fraudulent immigration: Take the ten worst offending countries and stop allowing any immigaration. No more immigration from Morocco, Nigeria, Egypt, etc... Kinda sucks when the blanket solution blankets you..

Make immigrants have to check in regular when they do get here also. Like a parole officer does checks.

Well I will be filing on September 6th. High fraud country, I am older than he is. But we are for real and legit.

Good luck

Edited August 6, 2011 by OnMyWayID

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

Great questions and suggestions all but I do have a question. Why does it seem the K1 is such a privilege and they just walk through with all the amenities and K3 we have to prove everything.

I am married to a Nigerian, I much older (I the woman)we know the red flags and have the ammo to state our case. those of us who know we are legit know what we need to show and prove. I have 369 pages to frint load that will leave them in tears trust me when I file this.

This visa stuff is all new to me but one thing I see is no real time together meet, greet, visit, marry submit application. I think immigration feels you love each other dang it spend time together. So there has to be some more time together. I came for two months I will have been here now 5 months leaving at end of month. I know that is not going to be the norm but time helps.

Also US citizens should also be applying for permanent status in their hunni's country. I got mine on my first visit when they told me it was impossible. (Never say that to me.)

I have known of american women who also do this marrying foreigners and they get paid very well. That brings me to #2. the instant divorce must stop. How the heck you letting a immigrant in and as soon as they receive green card they can divorce and stay in the country and I the citizen still have to support their butt if they choose not to work. How is that even fair, right or legal. I have meet a few women who the day they got the green card for husbands they were served divorce papers.

Evidence really means nothing I mean phone text, emails, what does that prove if you know that's what they want to see you send like a million a day and show a long relationship and they go wow they are a real couple they talk a million times a day.

How about more swore affidavits from the immigrants family. Notorized. If they fake it will be hard for them some of these guys know no one. Make it mandatory for them to bring an immediate family member to interview.

One thing I do know in Nigeria getting a bogus birth certificate and drivers license and than passport is so so easy its ridicules. So he could be married to 5 other women under 5 other names who knows and getting to US to meet up with someone else.

Make immigrants have to check in regular when they do get here also. Like a parole officer does checks.

Well I will be filing on September 6th. High fraud country, I am older than he is. But we are for real and legit.

Thanks for your thoughts, and every opinion is welcomed.

With that said, yes, it is true some of the marriages crumble upon the couples union here in the states. That could be for several reasons, and it doesn't indicate that the relationship was just for immigration purposes. It doesn't always indicate that a fraudulent relationship went on from the start. The reality of things are, that once a couple is finally "united" after this visa journey, they still have to overcome all the hurdles that a "real-normal relationship" has. Couples need to deal with every day issues, and adjustment to each together, habits, and each others routines. Ironing out differences, and getting to know each other, and the existing society and families well. Getting over the "cultural shock" is a huge thing for anyone coming into the US.

Yes, it would be nice to have this option available to all of us, prior to having the visa in hand, but it is not unfortunately. Most of us, with third world country loved ones. We are not so blessed! visitor visas, are like obtaining a key to "Heaven's Gate", and most of us have traveled down that road few times, before even applying for any other visa, to find out it was a wasted money and time. As US petitioners we are asked to make several trips instead of allowing our men/women to come here to visit and experience life as it will be one day for all involved.

We can travel to the country of the beneficiary, but the real life still remains here in the US, where everyone eventually will live on day to day bases. So, in essence, yeah we can get to know the person better by being there for weeks at a time, but we will never really know them until they are in permanent normal situations.

In regards to how things are obtained in Nigeria, most of the countries abroad, documents can be obtainable for the right amount, or by knowing the right person, working in the right place. Therefore, the scam artist, or the con artist would have access to it all without a hitch.

Regardless, what needs to be done is to prevent what goes on outside of the embassy, from coming in. Beneficiary should be put to the test, to prove "a legitimate attentions" for the existing relationship. So, put them through the lie detector, ask the questions needed and check their background thoroughly. No one can say we can't do this with our new age technology. If, there is a small amount of doubt, that their intentions are insincere, "MAKE IT KNOWN" to the petitioner right away, and make a note in the beneficiary file "in bold red letters".

Ultimately, we need something that would work for everyone, no matter how big or small is the percentage of its success! Collectively, we have a lot of great ideas that have circulated here on this post. Thanks everyone.

Good luck with your VJ!

Edited August 6, 2011 by LoveNigarmostyle

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

"Beneficiary should be put to the test, to prove "a legitimate intentions" for the existing relationship." Sorry for the typo

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Even if one presumes your suggestions are doable, remember that both USCIS and Consular Processing are fee based areas of the government. So, anything that adds cost, will increase fees accordingly. Thinking of things like what I've made bold above. Demanding a bond takes those with marginal incomes out of the mix. Do you really want to do that?

In general, the problem with telling everybody everything they need to do to pass an interview or otherwise have a successful process will actually assist the scammers in beating the system. It's a double-edged sword.

Exactly. Frauds will cross any line they need to. Removing discretion is a very bad idea.

You also have to remember that your fiance(e) has no right to a visa and you do not need a visa to marry anyone from another country, you only need that for them to live HERE.

"Beneficiary should be put to the test, to prove "a legitimate intentions" for the existing relationship." Sorry for the typo

Which test would insure only people with legitmate intentions would pass?

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

Exactly. Frauds will cross any line they need to. Removing discretion is a very bad idea.

You also have to remember that your fiance(e) has no right to a visa and you do not need a visa to marry anyone from another country, you only need that for them to live HERE.

Which test would insure only people with legitmate intentions would pass?

I was making reference to the use of lie detectors or internet background checks, which was discussed earlier on in this topic.

As to needing a fiance(e) visa for beneficiary to come live here, it is the discussing here not for us the petitioners to go live there permanently. I am well aware of the fact, we don't need a visa to marry anyone. Thanks,