How to stop fraud in Fiance/Spouse Visas

[jenkatx 52]

Unbelievable.

Completely & totally. There is no more need to continue with this topic as no one can agree upon the color of the sky even. I will be re-posting something similar in regards to the Lagos or Sub Saharan process. I would like to think that people who do not deal with that type of embassy do not understand, however I feel that that is truly not the case. Some people are simply content to know the system & how to work it, while some feel the need to correct the injustice in that system. That was the point of this thread, to look for ideas to fix the problems in the process. Sadly we little more the 11 pages of one-upmanship.

[TBoneTX 46,113]

I believe that we need better ways to detect those who are committing fraud, as well as a more in depth set of guidelines to refer to that is published by either the State Department, or USCIS. My question to you all is what can we do to prevent fraud?

Please refer to the opening post of this thread. OP, how would you answer the two questions posed in post #177 on the previous page? Edited August 13, 2011 by TBoneTX

[jenkatx 52]

Please refer to the opening post of this thread. OP, how would you answer the two questions posed in post #177 on the previous page?

I am not sure how phone interviews would impact fraud. Can you please explain?

[pushbrk 13,108]

Si, man.

Back to topic: I believe that COs could conduct a lot more telephone interviews of the petitioners. I and other Ecuador filers had our USC hindquarters ordered down to Ecuador (blackmail) for "marriage" interviews, which were really Stokes interviews. This was and is dirty pool. If an application seems thin or suspicious to a CO, what easier and more efficient way could there be to alleviate suspicion than for the CO to interview the USC by phone? If the answers aren't satisfying, perhaps then the USC could be asked to come down personally (vs. "ordered").

What do we think about this?

Why aren't more telephone interviews conducted? If they are frequently conducted, why don't we hear about them here?

I have no idea why they don't conduct more phone interviews. It sounds like a good idea to me as well, particularly for Ecuador and other Consulates that tend to conduct a good number of Stokes interviews. However, I don't think such calls would do much to remove the concerns of those that are looking for obstacles to be removed from their paths. The expense and inconvenience of a quick trip along with the indignity of the Stokes interview itself are certainly something I would want to avoid and that COULD be avoided in many cases if they instead conducted a phone interview. However, Stokes interviews are primarily conducted to rule in or out a mutual kind of fraud scenario where the COUPLE both know they are in a fraudulent relationship. Most of the discussion in this thread has focused on the "heartbreak" scenario where it is the US Citizen being used and duped. A phone interview with a petitioner may help but I see it being more of a hindrance to success than a help in the suspected heartbreak scenario.

[jenkatx 52]

I have no idea why they don't conduct more phone interviews. It sounds like a good idea to me as well, particularly for Ecuador and other Consulates that tend to conduct a good number of Stokes interviews. However, I don't think such calls would do much to remove the concerns of those that are looking for obstacles to be removed from their paths. The expense and inconvenience of a quick trip along with the indignity of the Stokes interview itself are certainly something I would want to avoid and that COULD be avoided in many cases if they instead conducted a phone interview. However, Stokes interviews are primarily conducted to rule in or out a mutual kind of fraud scenario where the COUPLE both know they are in a fraudulent relationship. Most of the discussion in this thread has focused on the "heartbreak" scenario where it is the US Citizen being used and duped. A phone interview with a petitioner may help but I see it being more of a hindrance to success than a help in the suspected heartbreak scenario.

Just out of curiosity has anyone heard of a phone interview being conducted at Lagos? I don't even have the option of going in if I want. I am going simply so the CO will know I do care & also for moral support.

[pushbrk 13,108]

Just out of curiosity has anyone heard of a phone interview being conducted at Lagos? I don't even have the option of going in if I want. I am going simply so the CO will know I do care & also for moral support.

Phone interviews of the US Citizen are extremely rare. Never heard of one from Lagos. A popular way to get the CO's attention so they know you are present nearby is to have the applicant hand over both their own and the petitioner's passport when asked for theirs. The CO will usually just hand it back but they are immediately aware you are present nearby in support of the relationship.

[pushbrk 13,108]

Phone interviews of the US Citizen are extremely rare. Never heard of one from Lagos. A popular way to get the CO's attention so they know you are present nearby is to have the applicant hand over both their own and the petitioner's passport when asked for theirs. The CO will usually just hand it back but they are immediately aware you are present nearby in support of the relationship.

You may also find this thread has some information of interest to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/301441-chat-with-guz-consular-officer/page__p__4558873__hl__consular__fromsearch__1#entry4558873

[jenkatx 52]

You may also find this thread has some information of interest to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/301441-chat-with-guz-consular-officer/page__p__4558873__hl__consular__fromsearch__1#entry4558873

I had often wondered if their minds were already made up before we even arrive. That is not too surprising. I do wish that all of those denied would file a FOI so that they & we could learn.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

There is no more need to continue with this topic as no one can agree upon the color of the sky even. I will be re-posting something similar in regards to the Lagos or Sub Saharan process. I would like to think that people who do not deal with that type of embassy do not understand, however I feel that that is truly not the case. Some people are simply content to know the system & how to work it, while some feel the need to correct the injustice in that system. That was the point of this thread, to look for ideas to fix the problems in the process. Sadly we little more the 11 pages of one-upmanship.

There is no need to start a duplicate thread on this same topic. While this topic veered off course for a bit, it is now back on track. You are dealing with a diverse community of individuals from many different backgrounds. If you try to limit your responses only to those who agree with a certain perspective you will miss a lot of good advice as well as miss out on some good suggestions of how to proceed. This is an experiential forum which means we respond based upon our experiences. If someone disagrees with you, then discuss the situation calmly and politely and work it through.

Since this thread is still open, the duplicate thread has been removed. I have included below an excerpt from the duplicate thread to add it into this discussion so that all discussion is kept in this thread.

jenkatx wrote:

Most of us would agree that our family based immigration system is a mess. We have all heard the horror stories of people in very legitimate relationships being denied, as well as the stories of fraudulent relationships sailing right through the process. Often it seems that this is more the rule then the exception. For many years our politicians and civil rights groups have talked about immigration reform but little has been done. I believe that we need better ways to detect those who are committing fraud, as well as a more in depth set of guidelines to refer to that is published by either the State Department, or USCIS. My question to you all is what can we do to prevent fraud? Some suggestions on another topic were requiring a thermal lie detector test of the beneficiary, conducting an internet search particularly of dating sites to catch those who are phishing for a spouse, and to lengthen the time for removal of conditions.

I would hope that with all of our experiences we could come up with a concrete plan and send it to our Senators, Congressman, and the Department of State. Possibly with a petition requesting that the entire system be revamped. What are your ideas to make this process easier and more streamlined as well as protecting the real relationships & stopping the fakes.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

There are two basic groups of fraudulent relatinships , both with the same goal getting into the US on the back of someone already here. There are two very distinct methods of handling them ( or not caring ) One method also blocks a lot of valid coules the other turns a more or less blind eye. The biggest difference in these petitions is the sex and skin color of the beneficary. It would seem is you are female and being petitioned by a white male you get in and don;t have too much to worry about. If you are male of darker skin you are going through the gates of hell to get in . A VJ timeline search for Nigeria with interview dates from Jan 1 to Aug 1 for Nigeria shows 31 records and 17 approvals ( 54 % ) Other gates from hell embassies for men are also located in the MENA and other African countries. Free pass countries for both sexes usually deal with places where the immigrant is white. The other area where you hear a lot of cries of " she arrived and ran off " or " she came and accused me of abuse and threw me out of the house" involve white men petitioning for non white women. It would seem that embassy level screening is heavily based on sex and skin color and on a notion that there is a need to protect Amercian women from men of color. Even though there is fair evidence that fraud is also high in another visa pairing ( white men / non white women) the visa is granted and the fraudster is allowed into the US and usually allowed to remain. To make the process more fair and equal the idea that woman are less capable of chosing a partner needs to be abolished. People have mentioned that the DV lottery seems less fraud prone ( maybe because of lack of knowledge) These visa are based on a set of requirements, you meet them and you get a visa. There is no set list for family based petitions. Maybe such a set of requirements are needed, Number of visits, number of days together, educational level , common language. Take away the ability of a CO to deny based on feelings and make them provide evidence that is shared with the petitioner and allow the petitioner a fair chance to refute the claim or consur and walk. End the vauge "not a bonefide relationship " and require actual cause(s) for the rejection. If the embassy has found that there are undisclosed marriages, criminal history, work in the sex industry disclose it to the petitioner. Make a check list for a petitioner to know what is needed to get approval ( not just of the petition but of the visa ) If there are regional specific rules ( like CFO ) make it part of the check lists. A CO will be seeing a string of apllicants in a day and doesn't know the person anywhere near as well as the person that filed the petition yet they have the power to dash a couples dreams in minutes. Make the CO accountable when they do decide to throw someones future to the dust wrongly.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I think phone calls to petitioners aren't made because most of the burden to prove intent are on the beneficiary. Though I have often wondered myself and told the CO in writing and verbally to contact me if anything needs to be clarified.

It is a good suggestion and should be utilized for certain questions they may have.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Locked for review

[Brad and Vika 129]

To all - I have removed a couple more posts containing thinly veiled baiting. I am going to open up this topic and see if everybody stays civil. Anything resembling an insult, baiting, or a derogatory comment about any member or group and I will lock it permanently and take other action as necessary.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Brad and Vika

[Used to be broken 147]

To all - I have removed a couple more posts containing thinly veiled baiting. I am going to open up this topic and see if everybody stays civil. Anything resembling an insult, baiting, or a derogatory comment about any member or group and I will lock it permanently and take other action as necessary.

How about only allowing people who actually know each other, ie met here or met in the SO's country (other than online procurement system for spouses, men or women) ?

Very likely to dissuade at least one type of fraud commonly seen.

[pushbrk 13,108]

How about only allowing people who actually know each other, ie met here or met in the SO's country (other than online procurement system for spouses, men or women) ?

Very likely to dissuade at least one type of fraud commonly seen.

Fiance visas require an in person meeting. Spouse visas obviously require in person meeting as well. Are you suggesting eliminating couples that initially became acquainted via the internet? If so, that won't fly. It won't even jump an inch. Any reasonable solution will not involve throwing out the baby with the bath water.