Going *back* to Ukraine

[Just_a_girl 0]

To my knowledge, this is going to be a new topic. Everyone keeps calling us crazy so maybe that means no one's tried this before? If this question has been covered before, can you direct me to the right place? Thank you!

I am an American woman and really want to learn more about Ukraine by living there for a while. Finished college with a relevant degree and already spent time there as a tourist. I just got a job there for the next 8-12 months and a biz-visa to somewhat legalize my presence. My boyfriend is from Ukraine originally but a US citizen as of last year. He still, however, has an unexpired Ukrainian passport.

Things we know:

• Traveling on a foreign passport and working on a foreign passport do not necessarily jeopardize your American citizenship. (per the US Embassy
  
• Americans can stay in Ukraine for 3 months, visa-free, and then are supposed to leave the country for the next 90 days. (State Department website)
  

I've read a lot of posts about people with both US and Ukrainian passports visiting Ukraine and debating which passport to use. The US passport is obviously the clear winner as long as you're not staying over 3 months. And I've never heard of "former" Ukrainians wanting to stay there for over three months.... but obviously you've never been dating me, haha But since the poor guy is dating me (and we're serious about this relationship, engaged would be a better word) we're trying to find a way for him to stay there for 8-12 months too. Hence, the reconsideration of the Ukrainian passport. We looked into getting him a job or enrolling in university but neither of those things panned out. So, if I may humbly ask the opinion of all you knowledgeable other posters: what is our best option?

Is it to-

A) Have him enter as a US citizen planning to stay 3 months? Then during those 3 months try to find a legal way to stay? Or will we always get screwed over by that 90/180 rule? If he found a place willing to sponsor his work visa, would he have to return to the U.S. or leave the country for 90 days before being eligible for the visa?

B) Have him enter as a Ukrainian? Then he can legally stay there and even work until my contract is up. I saw some other posts on this but didn't see a very definite answer. His Ukrainian passport is stamped with "Постiйне Проживання - США" so I suspect the Ukrainian borders guys might demand to see a green card...and that would be a very awkward situation. Or would they not ask for a green card, would they just let him in?

C) Enter as an American, go to Poland after 3 months, and then return to Ukraine on the Ukrainian passport right away?

I've heard the best advice on Ukraine is to just plan for the worst and hope it doesn't happen, and never say more than you need to. Trust me, I'm trying to not plan too hard. And I know it's kind of silly to have this idea to go basically live semi-illegally in a second-world country....but on the other hand, there will never be a better time than now. We're young, done with school, don't have kids and I feel really drawn to explore this culture and improve my language skills before I'm 30. Ukraine is hardship but it's a fascinating place and people and a long history I want to see in person. And, at what other point in our lives will we be able to survive on so little money as the typical Ukrainian salary? That's why is has to be done now!

Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge and opinions! It's very much appreciated!!

[Boiler 44,862]

Enter Ukraine with his Ukrainian passport

Enter the US with his US passport.

The latter is a requirement, the former maybe as well.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Enter Ukraine with his Ukrainian passport

Enter the US with his US passport.

The latter is a requirement, the former maybe as well.

Yes

You are giving this way too much thought. We know several couples that have a partner with both passports, they can use either to enter Ukraine. No one has any questions that I have heard of.

Living in Ukraine is a great adventure, particularly when you do not have to live like a Ukrainian and have a US income. It is considerably less adventurous trying to get by on $300 per month or so.

[eekee 182]

Yes, he will enter Ukraine as a Ukrainian and enter the US as an American.

It's not SO crazy to move to Ukraine... but I've lived in Russia on and off for five years, so there you go.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

It is a violation of VJ's rules to suggest illegal activity.

http://mignews.com.ua/en/articles/11599.html

[Just_a_girl 0]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is a violation of VJ's rules to suggest illegal activity.

http://mignews.com.ua/en/articles/11599.html

It is a violation of TOS to suggest a violation of US immigration law. No one has done such a thing in this thread.

Imagining that VJs TOS states that it is a violation to suggest anything illegal anywhere is ridiculous. I do not know what your crusade is Bob, but you can crusade somewhere else. Given the political situation in Ukraine (Yushenko is no longer President) it is anything but clear what the current official policy is.

[eekee 182]

It is impossible to live to the letter of the law in RUB.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is impossible to live to the letter of the law in RUB.

Fortunately, there is no need to!

[eekee 182]

Fortunately, there is no need to!

Except if you have a moneymaking business the government wants. Then you're screwed because this lack of agreement between local/regional/federal laws means they can ALWAYS get your for SOMETHING. But if you don't have money... no worries!

[slim 1,514]

Typically you can do the "border jump" with those 90 day no visa places by taking a short trip to a foreign country and then coming back. Some of the young ladies I used to know would work in the visa free country and once every three months they'd take a duty free shopping trip to a third country and fly back later that day. Seemed to work out pretty well and made sure they never overstayed their visas.

[TBoneTX 44,679]

Ufff, man... not sure if the analogy is totally correct, but a couple of trips ago, Mrs. T-B. & I (in Ecuador) wanted to pop into Peru for an overnight. As background, Ecuadorians can visit Peru freely, without need for passport stamps; USCs are stamped into & out of Ecuador, and there's a 90-day-at-one-time limitation on visits. We were driven up & down steep, muddy mountain roads through the middle of the Amazon until we reached this very rural, very pastoral border-crossing -- the gate consisted of a huge bamboo pole that had to be physically lifted up for vehicles to pass across, si man. There were more animals than people.

The Ecu immigration officials (all young dudes, probably paid minimum wage) had not really dealt with this situation before vis-a-vis gringos; our chauffeur had to spend over half an hour sweet-talking them and convincing them that, no, the gringo was NOT trying to evade Ecu visa rules, no man. (Note: I had been in Ecu for a grand total of 2 days out of 9 planned days there, si man.) No bribes were required, no man.

The very young Peruvian immigration dude stamped me in and promised to be on duty promptly at 8 a.m. the next morn to stamp me out. I changed money at a small store nearby where chickens were wandering in and out, cluck man.

The next morn, the Peruano was nowhere to be found. Upon asking, we learned that he had overimbibed on the previous eve and was at home, sleeping it off. Fruitlessly swatting Texas-sized mosquitoes, we had to slog across muddy trenches and heaps of steaming cowpies to find his house, then bang on the door for 15 minutes until one of his roomies woke him up. He unsteadily stamped my passport from his completely dried-up inkpad, si man. The Ecu guys across the bamboo border didn't give us any trouble, no man.

This was the trip where the "meat of the day" in the Peruano restaurant turned out to be burro, bray man. Northern Peru is a fifth-world country, based on observation and on how much the border-dude apparently drank, si man. Yet, no bribes on either border were required, no man.

Trip postscript, si man: As I tried to fly home from the small Loja airport north to Quito (where I would catch my flight home to the U.S.), the airline agents tried to charge me a "gringo exit tax," which fortunately Mrs. T-B. was able to get waived upon hearing me yell indignantly, sheesh man.

Edited August 1, 2011 by TBoneTX

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ufff, man... not sure if the analogy is totally correct, but a couple of trips ago, Mrs. T-B. & I (in Ecuador) wanted to pop into Peru for an overnight. As background, Ecuadorians can visit Peru freely, without need for passport stamps; USCs are stamped into & out of Ecuador, and there's a 90-day-at-one-time limitation on visits. We were driven up & down steep, muddy mountain roads through the middle of the Amazon until we reached this very rural, very pastoral border-crossing -- the gate consisted of a huge bamboo pole that had to be physically lifted up for vehicles to pass across, si man. There were more animals than people.

The Ecu immigration officials (all young dudes, probably paid minimum wage) had not really dealt with this situation before vis-a-vis gringos; our chauffeur had to spend over half an hour sweet-talking them and convincing them that, no, the gringo was NOT trying to evade Ecu visa rules, no man. (Note: I had been in Ecu for a grand total of 2 days out of 9 planned days there, si man.) No bribes were required, no man.

The very young Peruvian immigration dude stamped me in and promised to be on duty promptly at 8 a.m. the next morn to stamp me out. I changed money at a small store nearby where chickens were wandering in and out, cluck man.

The next morn, the Peruano was nowhere to be found. Upon asking, we learned that he had overimbibed on the previous eve and was at home, sleeping it off. Fruitlessly swatting Texas-sized mosquitoes, we had to slog across muddy trenches and heaps of steaming cowpies to find his house, then bang on the door for 15 minutes until one of his roomies woke him up. He unsteadily stamped my passport from his completely dried-up inkpad, si man. The Ecu guys across the bamboo border didn't give us any trouble, no man.

This was the trip where the "meat of the day" in the Peruano restaurant turned out to be burro, bray man. Northern Peru is a fifth-world country, based on observation and on how much the border-dude apparently drank, si man. Yet, no bribes on either border were required, no man.

Trip postscript, si man: As I tried to fly home from the small Loja airport north to Quito (where I would catch my flight home to the U.S.), the airline agents tried to charge me a "gringo exit tax," which fortunately Mrs. T-B. was able to get waived upon hearing me yell indignantly, sheesh man.

They made a movie about this! Romancing the Stone...right?

What would life be without adventures? If you haven't bribed your way past a border guard in a 3rd world country or the FSU, well, you just aren't a real man.

Attractive native speaking women accompanying you make all this so much easier.

[TBoneTX 44,679]

Attractive native speaking women accompanying you make all this so much easier.

Mrs. T-B. can charm the socks off a snake, which must explain why so few snakes wear socks. (Sidebar: What do snakes use for genitalia???) I'm amazed at how she sweet-talks local Hispanic service-types (handymen, et al.) into giving us great deals and priority service. And, she's an amazing mother to little Mini-Bone, si man.

In Ecuador, there are two sets of prices: those for Ecu persons, and those for gringos (= higher). In places where haggling is allowed (i.e., not in department stores with price-tags on things, but as in flea-markets, etc.), I have learned to walk in alone, decide what I want, walk out, ask Mrs. T-B. to go in alone and negotiate a price, and then go in and buy it myself at that price. Is it similar in RUB, huh man?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Mrs. T-B. can charm the socks off a snake, which must explain why so few snakes wear socks. (Sidebar: What do snakes use for genitalia???) I'm amazed at how she sweet-talks local Hispanic service-types (handymen, et al.) into giving us great deals and priority service. And, she's an amazing mother to little Mini-Bone, si man.

In Ecuador, there are two sets of prices: those for Ecu persons, and those for gringos (= higher). In places where haggling is allowed (i.e., not in department stores with price-tags on things, but as in flea-markets, etc.), I have learned to walk in alone, decide what I want, walk out, ask Mrs. T-B. to go in alone and negotiate a price, and then go in and buy it myself at that price. Is it similar in RUB, huh man?

We run into some of this. If you shop at the grocery store or mall, no. The prices are marked and that is what you pay. If you go to the local markets, which many people do, then YES they can always spot an AmeriKan and try to empty your wallet as much as possible. I went to the guy selling hardware at the market. You dig through a coffee can and find the two screws I needed to fix my MIL's light fixture. "How much?" 10 Grivnya (about $1.50 at that time) I said in Russian "Are you crazy, it is two small screws!" 50 Koppec (about 10 cents)

The worst are the private drivers, I always have Alla hire the driver if we use a car. Amerikans will pay 3-4 times higher prices for drivers and you had better have some small bills with you. Stupid Americans carry around 50, 100, 200 UAH notes. The drivers quote you 60 or 75 UAH for a ride...you have a 100. Oops, sorry, no change. Make sure you get plenty of 1, 2, 5, and 10 UAH notes.