DCF hope in London?

[homesick_american 1]

any tips about determing citizen ship eligibility? I've been here since 2003 now and would love to get the UK citizen ship sorted. I read somewhere that the US doens't recognize dual nationalities but turns a blind eye if you take a second one. For simplicity sake it would be ideal at some point for us to become citizens of each others' countries!

I got married to a Brit in 2001 and have been eligible to apply for UK citizenship since 2004. I have refused to do so because I have no interest in becoming a British citizen and I refuse to swear a loyalty oath to the Queen on general principle. I think eligibility is determined as three years for spouses, five years for everyone else, so either way you slice it you're probably a ways off. I'd check with the Home Office, though; these laws change all the time and it has been a while since I looked at them.

Any other problems you are aware of?

Besides endangering your US citizenship? No, no others that I can think of. The UK doesn't require its overseas citizens to file tax returns and it doesn't have a national service obligation. If you're just worried about being hassled about re-settling in the UK, I wouldn't worry about it; it's so easy to get resident visas here when you're married to a UK citizen that taking UK citizenship is hardly worth it.

[Shalacat 0]

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

Emily.

There is no 3-year minimum at a certain income level that I am aware of (If you are referring to the I-864)

[meauxna 15]

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

Emily.

There is no 3-year minimum at a certain income level that I am aware of (If you are referring to the I-864)

Excellent catch, Shalacat--I missed that earlier.

There is in fact NO requirement that anything BUT the current income be at/above poverty level guidelines.

Past tax returns can be at/above/below without (too much) consequence--I should know, as my own case was a bit weird that way & I was in fact unemployed at the time I petitioned.

And, "exceptions" are sort of made---it is a totality of circumstances thing (which explains my approval).

[FutureAmerican 2]

To correct an earlier point, it IS possible for UK-born Citizens to renounce their Citizenship if they wish, by sending a letter formally stating their intentions to do so to the nearest UK Embassy (as I intend to do once I gain US Citizenship, due to personal principles such as my disagreement with Monarchy etc). It is possible to regain it later on, however you have to jump through various hoops to do so.

[homesick_american 1]

To correct an earlier point, it IS possible for UK-born Citizens to renounce their Citizenship if they wish, by sending a letter formally stating their intentions to do so to the nearest UK Embassy (as I intend to do once I gain US Citizenship, due to personal principles such as my disagreement with Monarchy etc). It is possible to regain it later on, however you have to jump through various hoops to do so.

Weird; I'd heard that Brits didn't have the right to do that. Learn something new every day, I guess.

Why renounce, though? You won't be paying taxes in the UK anymore, isn't that enough?

[Candace 2]

Any other problems you are aware of?

Besides endangering your US citizenship?

Homesick, what would endanger your US citizenship by taking dual nationality? As far as I was aware, the US allows citizens to take dual nationality. Unless you have a security clearance I didn't think there was any issue? My husband was planning to take UK citizenship in the future, and would be worried if his US citizenship was endangered.

Thanks

[homesick_american 1]

Any other problems you are aware of?

Besides endangering your US citizenship?

Homesick, what would endanger your US citizenship by taking dual nationality? As far as I was aware, the US allows citizens to take dual nationality. Unless you have a security clearance I didn't think there was any issue? My husband was planning to take UK citizenship in the future, and would be worried if his US citizenship was endangered.

Thanks

Under US law pledging your allegiance to a foreign monarch (in this case, the Queen) could potentially endanger your US citizenship.

Realistically I don't think anything would happen, but why take the chance? British citizenship isn't worth it to me.

[FutureAmerican 2]

To correct an earlier point, it IS possible for UK-born Citizens to renounce their Citizenship if they wish, by sending a letter formally stating their intentions to do so to the nearest UK Embassy (as I intend to do once I gain US Citizenship, due to personal principles such as my disagreement with Monarchy etc). It is possible to regain it later on, however you have to jump through various hoops to do so.

Weird; I'd heard that Brits didn't have the right to do that. Learn something new every day, I guess.

Why renounce, though? You won't be paying taxes in the UK anymore, isn't that enough?

It is a more drawn out process than for other countries, as I think it also involves actually going to the embassy and swearing in front of a consular officer (which I've been tempted to do at times ), I know of one ex-pat Brit who did so because he was taking a government position which required "Secret" level clearance, and so did it to ease the process for his background checks etc. That's also a big reason for me, as I'm looking at military/Law Enforcement/government jobs, and I wouldn't want my loyalties to be called into doubt I will miss standing in the shorter queue to get back into the UK though!

Edited September 22, 2006 by FutureAmerican

[homesick_american 1]

To correct an earlier point, it IS possible for UK-born Citizens to renounce their Citizenship if they wish, by sending a letter formally stating their intentions to do so to the nearest UK Embassy (as I intend to do once I gain US Citizenship, due to personal principles such as my disagreement with Monarchy etc). It is possible to regain it later on, however you have to jump through various hoops to do so.

Weird; I'd heard that Brits didn't have the right to do that. Learn something new every day, I guess.

Why renounce, though? You won't be paying taxes in the UK anymore, isn't that enough?

It is a more drawn out process than for other countries, as I think it also involves actually going to the embassy and swearing in front of a consular officer (which I've been tempted to do at times ), I know of one ex-pat Brit who did so because he was taking a government position which required "Secret" level clearance, and so did it to ease the process for his background checks etc. That's also a big reason for me, as I'm looking at military/Law Enforcement/government jobs, and I wouldn't want my loyalties to be called into doubt I will miss standing in the shorter queue to get back into the UK though!

*shrug* Up to you. Personally, I'd never give up my US citizenship.

[EmilyandChris 0]

Emily,

Why no visa until July 07?

When looking at timelines, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. London direct-filed cases take 4-6 months to complete (and then the visa is valid for 6 months after approval).

I wonder if the long timelines you are looking at are for US-filed cases?

Hi - thanks for the pointer! I think I was looking at the non-DCF timelines - I'm not very good at this....

We want to wait for the visa until July 07 because we want Chris to get ILR in the UK first - which should mean that when we return to the UK (We want to keep flexibility in where we live) it should be easier. We recently looked into getting our first mortgage and were denied because Chris doesn't have ILR.

For Chris to get ILR GB regulations state that I (his sponsor) have to be 'permanently settled' in the UK. If they see a US visa stamp in my passport I think they will smell a rat and may turn down his ILR.....and anyway - we aren't in a big hurry to fly over the pond.

E

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

Emily.

There is no 3-year minimum at a certain income level that I am aware of (If you are referring to the I-864)

Sadly there is - I have an email from the US embassy saying exactly that.

Emily,

Why no visa until July 07?

When looking at timelines, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. London direct-filed cases take 4-6 months to complete (and then the visa is valid for 6 months after approval).

I wonder if the long timelines you are looking at are for US-filed cases?

Hi - thanks for the pointer! I think I was looking at the non-DCF timelines - I'm not very good at this....

We want to wait for the visa until July 07 because we want Chris to get ILR in the UK first - which should mean that when we return to the UK (We want to keep flexibility in where we live) it should be easier. We recently looked into getting our first mortgage and were denied because Chris doesn't have ILR.

For Chris to get ILR GB regulations state that I (his sponsor) have to be 'permanently settled' in the UK. If they see a US visa stamp in my passport I think they will smell a rat and may turn down his ILR.....and anyway - we aren't in a big hurry to fly over the pond.

E

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

Emily.

There is no 3-year minimum at a certain income level that I am aware of (If you are referring to the I-864)

Sadly there is - I have an email from the US embassy saying exactly that.

But do you think the person was wrong? That would be great if they were - So do you mean that as long as Chris's last tax return shows that he is above the income level then that will fulfill the I-864 requirements? Please tell me yes!

[iclaudius 0]

Hi Emily

Regarding the ILR and mortgages you were talking to the wrong bank! That is RUBBISH.

I only have an LLR and we had absolutely no problem getting a mortgage this year. Send me a private message, if you want, and I can recommend our independent financial advisor. He's totally independent and lined up 2-3 lenders we could have used. P

[homesick_american 1]

Hi Emily

Regarding the ILR and mortgages you were talking to the wrong bank! That is RUBBISH.

I only have an LLR and we had absolutely no problem getting a mortgage this year. Send me a private message, if you want, and I can recommend our independent financial advisor. He's totally independent and lined up 2-3 lenders we could have used. P

I agree, the ILR excuse is rubbish. We got a mortgage in 2001 when I'd only been here six months, had just started a job, and was only 3 months through an LLR visa before I was even eligible to apply for permanent residency.

Our mortgage is with NatWest.

[EmilyandChris 0]

Hi Emily

Regarding the ILR and mortgages you were talking to the wrong bank! That is RUBBISH.

I only have an LLR and we had absolutely no problem getting a mortgage this year. Send me a private message, if you want, and I can recommend our independent financial advisor. He's totally independent and lined up 2-3 lenders we could have used. P

I agree, the ILR excuse is rubbish. We got a mortgage in 2001 when I'd only been here six months, had just started a job, and was only 3 months through an LLR visa before I was even eligible to apply for permanent residency.

Our mortgage is with NatWest.

Thank you guys - this is such good news....they were so horrible at the bank (Nationwide), it made me feel quite defeated by the whole Anglo-American thing. But there is hope!

[homesick_american 1]

Hi Emily

Regarding the ILR and mortgages you were talking to the wrong bank! That is RUBBISH.

I only have an LLR and we had absolutely no problem getting a mortgage this year. Send me a private message, if you want, and I can recommend our independent financial advisor. He's totally independent and lined up 2-3 lenders we could have used. P

I agree, the ILR excuse is rubbish. We got a mortgage in 2001 when I'd only been here six months, had just started a job, and was only 3 months through an LLR visa before I was even eligible to apply for permanent residency.

Our mortgage is with NatWest.

Thank you guys - this is such good news....they were so horrible at the bank (Nationwide), it made me feel quite defeated by the whole Anglo-American thing. But there is hope!

Getting a mortgage here was ridiculously easy. It'll take hubby years to establish credit and me to re-establish credit (living outside of the US for several years can wreck your rating) to the point where we can buy a house, which I could do right away in the UK. Then again, moneylending in the UK tends to be much looser than in the US; mortgage lenders in the US are pretty conservative.

[meauxna 15]

*shrug* Up to you. Personally, I'd never give up my US citizenship.

Seems you agree with him then---USC is better than UKC!

I don't see the point in choosing if you can have both.

Any other problems you are aware of?

Besides endangering your US citizenship?

Homesick, what would endanger your US citizenship by taking dual nationality? As far as I was aware, the US allows citizens to take dual nationality. Unless you have a security clearance I didn't think there was any issue? My husband was planning to take UK citizenship in the future, and would be worried if his US citizenship was endangered.

Thanks

Yes, homesick, how would one's US citizenship be endangered by taking on another citizenship?

I don't want to argue *your* choice, but if you have some information that no one else is aware of, please share.

From the Dual Citz FAQ

Is it possible to be a dual citizen of the United States of America and another country?

YES -- in many cases.

If you have been a dual citizen from birth or childhood, or else became a citizen of another country after already having US citizenship, and the other country in question does not have any laws or regulations requiring you to formally renounce your US citizenship before US consular officials, then current US law unambiguously assures your right to keep both citizenships for life.

But I thought US law didn't permit one to be a dual citizen -- that if you were (by birth or otherwise), you either had to give up the other citizenship when you came of age, or else you'd lose your US status. And that if you became a citizen of another country, you'd automatically lose your US citizenship. So what's all this talk about dual citizenship?

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both). However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down by the US Supreme Court in two cases: a 1967 decision, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second ruling in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas.

Rules against dual citizenship still apply to some extent -- at least in theory -- to people who wish to become US citizens via naturalization. The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US naturalization. However, in practice, the State Department is no longer doing anything in the vast majority of situations where a new citizen's "old country" refuses to recognize the US renunciation and continues to consider the person's original citizenship to be in effect.

The official US State Department policy on dual citizenship today is that the United States does not favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized (i.e., accepted) as a fact of life. That is, if you ask them if you ought to become a dual citizen, they will recommend against doing it; but if you tell them you are a dual citizen, they'll almost always say it's OK.

Under US law pledging your allegiance to a foreign monarch (in this case, the Queen) could potentially endanger your US citizenship.

Realistically I don't think anything would happen, but why take the chance? British citizenship isn't worth it to me.

We want to wait for the visa until July 07 because we want Chris to get ILR in the UK first - which should mean that when we return to the UK (We want to keep flexibility in where we live) it should be easier. We recently looked into getting our first mortgage and were denied because Chris doesn't have ILR.

For Chris to get ILR GB regulations state that I (his sponsor) have to be 'permanently settled' in the UK. If they see a US visa stamp in my passport I think they will smell a rat and may turn down his ILR.....and anyway - we aren't in a big hurry to fly over the pond.

Maybe the other answers have answered that objection? I confess to not being up to date on the finer points of UK immigration..

I do know that if Chris gets his UK citz, that will make returning to the UK *very* easy.

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

Emily.

"There is no 3-year minimum at a certain income level that I am aware of (If you are referring to the I-864)"

Sadly there is - I have an email from the US embassy saying exactly that.

But do you think the person was wrong? That would be great if they were - So do you mean that as long as Chris's last tax return shows that he is above the income level then that will fulfill the I-864 requirements? Please tell me yes!

I don't see the email you got, but the way you've worded it is not correct.

There is a requirement to present past tax returns (formerly the past 3 years, now the past one year).

There is a requirement for one's current income to be at/above poverty guidelines for the household size OR have assets at 3X that amount OR a combination of the two.

There is not a requirement that the past three years (or even the past year) be at/above PG.