DCF hope in London?

[iclaudius 0]

Wow - this is an excellent site. I've been reading it for hours now (it's friday after all and my boss is on holiday) and still haven't found the info to answer our questions.

Me=USC / She=UKC

Basic timeline:

I moved to UK with work visa July 03

We married March 05

I got Limited Leave to Remain visa for spouses Nov 05

We hope to move back to US in Sept/Nov 2007

QUESTIONS for the forum:

1. although I've only got a LLR UK visa I've been here for over 3 years now. Anyone know if they might let me do a DCF in London?

2. regarding the timing of this whole thing, we don't want to get her visa granted too early as anytime before March 07 would be less than 2 years marriage and this would mean a conditional visa. When should we apply?

3. do we have to send in our passports for any amount of time?

Many thanks - in advance!

P&A

[meauxna 15]

We hope to move back to US in Sept/Nov 2007

QUESTIONS for the forum:

1. although I've only got a LLR UK visa I've been here for over 3 years now. Anyone know if they might let me do a DCF in London?

2. regarding the timing of this whole thing, we don't want to get her visa granted too early as anytime before March 07 would be less than 2 years marriage and this would mean a conditional visa. When should we apply?

3. do we have to send in our passports for any amount of time?

Many thanks - in advance!

P&A

P&A,

1: Yes, I think it is highly likely that London will accept your I-130 as others who are genuinely resident in the UK have found. If they do not, they will return your file and your payment and instruct you to file in the US at your last Service Center address. This is one reason to start your app earlier than later as a US-filed case can expect to take 9 months or more. Start watching the timlines for your US Service Center occasionally (monthly) so you have an idea of what is going on there should you need it. A major part of the time saving factor of DCF is filing abroad, but avoiding the NVC is priceless (time's black hole).

2: The class on the visa is really immaterial. I can appreciate wanting to save the $200 bucks the I-751 will cost you eventually <koff> but the status class at ENTRY is what will count. If your wife enters the US with her Immigrant Visa after she has been married for 2 years, she will get the IR class anyway and her actual card + status will be the 'permanent' flavor.

The rule of thumb used to be 'apply 6 months before you plan to move' but you might want to leave a little extra time. Once the visa is issued, your wife has 6 months to use it, so you are still in control of some things.

3: your wife will leave her passport with the CO at her visa interview and have it returned within three days or so. This is the last step in the process.

Don't forget the nagging details, like filing your US tax return annually, voting by mail, establishing/maintaining your ties to the US (banking etc) as the domicile issue will come up. Way to plan ahead!

[iclaudius 0]

Thanks for your thorough response meauxna.

I see the VT processing center is still only up to Feb 06 applications! Grim. Will hope to DFS it in London.

Let's be optimistic and say we apply in October and get the Visa in 6 months, April time. We have 6 months from then to move back to the US together. Further questions (if you don't mind)

1. Jobs. In advance of moving home do either of us need to show we are moving back to USA with jobs lined up?

2. Domicile. I've been here since 2003 and not filing taxes in the US as I read on one of the official websites that you don't have to if you're living abroad and have no US income. Does my own foot have a bullet hole in it now? Address. I plan to use my Dad's home address as a permanent domicile. Voting. Haven't done this since 2002 but that was when I was registered in NYC while living there. My dad lives in MA. Banking - I have loads of US loan and bank accounts which are all active but the mailing address for them is UK.

Any suggestions?

continuing gratitude from us.

[meauxna 15]

Thanks for your thorough response meauxna.

I see the VT processing center is still only up to Feb 06 applications! Grim. Will hope to DFS it in London.

Let's be optimistic and say we apply in October and get the Visa in 6 months, April time. We have 6 months from then to move back to the US together. Further questions (if you don't mind)

1. Jobs. In advance of moving home do either of us need to show we are moving back to USA with jobs lined up?

2. Domicile. I've been here since 2003 and not filing taxes in the US as I read on one of the official websites that you don't have to if you're living abroad and have no US income. Does my own foot have a bullet hole in it now? Address. I plan to use my Dad's home address as a permanent domicile. Voting. Haven't done this since 2002 but that was when I was registered in NYC while living there. My dad lives in MA. Banking - I have loads of US loan and bank accounts which are all active but the mailing address for them is UK.

Any suggestions?

continuing gratitude from us.

Ahhh, the old tax myth. grrr. Get to know your local IRS (they're at the US Embassy & very helpful from what I hear). USCs must REPORT their worldwide income. Forever.

However, we have tax treaties with many countries, so you are not *taxed* twice.. this tends to be what confuses people. Your first (?) $80K are exempt from double tax (check the figure, I'm not current, but if you're making more than that, hire a damn international CPA! ). Off the top of my head, it's Pub xxx scratch that, it's 2555: http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq13-3.html

And voting?! My man, whatever 'side' you're on, you've got a vested interest, especially this November. Please consider voting, and it will help show your ongoing ties to the US (domicile). You can get info on absentee voting through your Embassy and your State Secretary of State's office (or county voting office). If you're switching to Dad's addy, you may not be able to participate in local/state/commonwealth elections due to lack of physical presence.

Mailing address is OK to be UK. I lived in Greece for nearly 3 years, but maintain my US domicile throughout. There is much thorough and official discussion of domicile in form I-864 (go get it immediately from uscis.gov) and in the three links at the bottom of the DCF Guide: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...om&page=dcf

If you have not yet read that, do so. If you have read that, read it again.

All the 'domicile' talk boils down to the I-864. In order to be elgibile to sponsor your wife (which you have to do to bring her here) you must have (or be taking steps toward) a US domicile. Normally, one has a US income to complete that document, but that's not the only way. London is quite generous in its interpretation of domicile.

Essentially, you need US income (or income that will continue forward once you're in the US) at $17K or higher, OR assets at $17K X 3, or a combination of the two OR a Joint Sponsor who will complete an I-864 on your wife's behalf. (or potentially, a really strong promise of the above)

The I-864 is a serious document, start reading it soon.

Oh yeah, so that *sometimes* means you should have a US job, but not always. The CO was certainly interested in what my future plans were. Of course plans is plans, and they don't always come to fruition. (I'm the biggest anti J-O-B person here I think )

Bottom line: you "should" have a plan for what you are going to do once in the US; I think you will figure it out OK.

[iclaudius 0]

Thanks for your thorough response meauxna.

I see the VT processing center is still only up to Feb 06 applications! Grim. Will hope to DFS it in London.

Let's be optimistic and say we apply in October and get the Visa in 6 months, April time. We have 6 months from then to move back to the US together. Further questions (if you don't mind)

1. Jobs. In advance of moving home do either of us need to show we are moving back to USA with jobs lined up?

2. Domicile. I've been here since 2003 and not filing taxes in the US as I read on one of the official websites that you don't have to if you're living abroad and have no US income. Does my own foot have a bullet hole in it now? Address. I plan to use my Dad's home address as a permanent domicile. Voting. Haven't done this since 2002 but that was when I was registered in NYC while living there. My dad lives in MA. Banking - I have loads of US loan and bank accounts which are all active but the mailing address for them is UK.

Any suggestions?

continuing gratitude from us.

Ahhh, the old tax myth. grrr. Get to know your local IRS (they're at the US Embassy & very helpful from what I hear). USCs must REPORT their worldwide income. Forever.

However, we have tax treaties with many countries, so you are not *taxed* twice.. this tends to be what confuses people. Your first (?) $80K are exempt from double tax (check the figure, I'm not current, but if you're making more than that, hire a damn international CPA! ). Off the top of my head, it's Pub xxx scratch that, it's 2555: http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq13-3.html

And voting?! My man, whatever 'side' you're on, you've got a vested interest, especially this November. Please consider voting, and it will help show your ongoing ties to the US (domicile). You can get info on absentee voting through your Embassy and your State Secretary of State's office (or county voting office). If you're switching to Dad's addy, you may not be able to participate in local/state/commonwealth elections due to lack of physical presence.

Mailing address is OK to be UK. I lived in Greece for nearly 3 years, but maintain my US domicile throughout. There is much thorough and official discussion of domicile in form I-864 (go get it immediately from uscis.gov) and in the three links at the bottom of the DCF Guide: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...om&page=dcf

If you have not yet read that, do so. If you have read that, read it again.

All the 'domicile' talk boils down to the I-864. In order to be elgibile to sponsor your wife (which you have to do to bring her here) you must have (or be taking steps toward) a US domicile. Normally, one has a US income to complete that document, but that's not the only way. London is quite generous in its interpretation of domicile.

Essentially, you need US income (or income that will continue forward once you're in the US) at $17K or higher, OR assets at $17K X 3, or a combination of the two OR a Joint Sponsor who will complete an I-864 on your wife's behalf. (or potentially, a really strong promise of the above)

The I-864 is a serious document, start reading it soon.

Oh yeah, so that *sometimes* means you should have a US job, but not always. The CO was certainly interested in what my future plans were. Of course plans is plans, and they don't always come to fruition. (I'm the biggest anti J-O-B person here I think )

Bottom line: you "should" have a plan for what you are going to do once in the US; I think you will figure it out OK.

Thanks again for the follow-up tips on the I-864! I still can't believe other people actually understand how to get through these forests of paperwork.

It sounds like either I should have a job offer - but maybe they would count my record of continuous employment and progressive salary? Or else we could ask my father to be a co-sponsor?

[homesick_american 1]

Wow - this is an excellent site. I've been reading it for hours now (it's friday after all and my boss is on holiday) and still haven't found the info to answer our questions.

Me=USC / She=UKC

Basic timeline:

I moved to UK with work visa July 03

We married March 05

I got Limited Leave to Remain visa for spouses Nov 05

We hope to move back to US in Sept/Nov 2007

QUESTIONS for the forum:

1. although I've only got a LLR UK visa I've been here for over 3 years now. Anyone know if they might let me do a DCF in London?

2. regarding the timing of this whole thing, we don't want to get her visa granted too early as anytime before March 07 would be less than 2 years marriage and this would mean a conditional visa. When should we apply?

3. do we have to send in our passports for any amount of time?

Many thanks - in advance!

P&A

Your limited leave to remain visa should expire in November...just be aware of that and be aware that you will have to send off some of the same docs for an ILR as you will for a US visa. Luckily the Home Office processes visa apps quickly and it's ridiculously easy to get a visa in the UK.

You may be able to do a DCF in London, but check carefully with them. They will let you start the process just to let you waste your time spinning your wheels, so make double and triple-sure that you're eligible.

If you wanted to you could start the process right away (assuming you can do a DCF) and draw it out for as long as you like. I did not want to rush my husband so we took our time with documentation gathering. We were approved for the I-130 in October 2005; we did not actually notify the embassy we were ready for an interview until July 17th of this year. I don't know if the conditional visa would be used if you STARTED the process before March 2007 or ENDED it before March 2007; again, you'll want to check with USCIS on that.

[meauxna 15]

I don't know if the conditional visa would be used if you STARTED the process before March 2007 or ENDED it before March 2007; again, you'll want to check with USCIS on that.

It doesn't really matter which *visa* class you are given. PR status is given at the Point of Entry, so the age of the marriage *on that day* is the one that counts.

If the visa is CE, but the 2nd wedding anniversary has past, the immigrant should be admitted as class IR. If this is your case, you should make a point of reminding your Border Agent.

Edited September 18, 2006 by meauxna

[iclaudius 0]

Thanks for the tips - very good to know we don't have to file for the visa straight after getting approved for I-130. Good news - had a response from the US Embassy via email within 48 hours! They say we can do a DCF here in London. Very good news indeed.

Am I also right in understanding that if we returned to the UK in the future for 4 years to live in the UK my wife's visa would expire and to return to live in USA we would have to re-apply for a visa? Maybe we need also look into her becoming a US citizen...

again - many thanks. we're feeling lucky to have found this forum!

[homesick_american 1]

Thanks for the tips - very good to know we don't have to file for the visa straight after getting approved for I-130. Good news - had a response from the US Embassy via email within 48 hours! They say we can do a DCF here in London. Very good news indeed.

Am I also right in understanding that if we returned to the UK in the future for 4 years to live in the UK my wife's visa would expire and to return to live in USA we would have to re-apply for a visa? Maybe we need also look into her becoming a US citizen...

again - many thanks. we're feeling lucky to have found this forum!

iclaudius, if memory serves me correctly even a permanent resident visa in the UK can expire if you spend more than x consecutive days outside of the United Kingdom...but I really don't know. The expertise here seems to mainly be in terms of US immigration, so if you have questions about your wife's visa I suggest you contact the IND at the Home Office.

If you want your wife to become a UK citizen, she is eligible to apply three years after marriage, possibly earlier due to her work permit. You should be aware that taking UK citizenship now requires pledging a loyalty oath to the Queen (not kidding) which is prohibited for US citizens by US law, so technically her US citizenship would be in jeopardy though it's doubtful anything would ever happen. The US does not officially recognize dual citizenship and I personally would not advise any US citizen to take up citizenship in another country simply due to the problems it has the potential to create.

If you want to become a US citizen, I think you can apply either three or five years after you immigrate. I know people in the US who have been there on green cards for nearly thirty years who have no plans to become citizens, so it's definitely not mandatory. It does mean once you're done you don't have to deal with the gov't again, so I say go for it. The UK government does not care if their citizens become citizens of another country and it would not jeopardize your UK citizenship, since natural-born UK citizens don't even have the right to renounce their own citizenship.

[EmilyandChris 0]

Wow - this is an excellent site. I've been reading it for hours now (it's friday after all and my boss is on holiday) and still haven't found the info to answer our questions.

Me=USC / She=UKC

Basic timeline:

I moved to UK with work visa July 03

We married March 05

I got Limited Leave to Remain visa for spouses Nov 05

We hope to move back to US in Sept/Nov 2007

QUESTIONS for the forum:

1. although I've only got a LLR UK visa I've been here for over 3 years now. Anyone know if they might let me do a DCF in London?

2. regarding the timing of this whole thing, we don't want to get her visa granted too early as anytime before March 07 would be less than 2 years marriage and this would mean a conditional visa. When should we apply?

3. do we have to send in our passports for any amount of time?

Many thanks - in advance!

P&A

Your limited leave to remain visa should expire in November...just be aware of that and be aware that you will have to send off some of the same docs for an ILR as you will for a US visa. Luckily the Home Office processes visa apps quickly and it's ridiculously easy to get a visa in the UK.

You may be able to do a DCF in London, but check carefully with them. They will let you start the process just to let you waste your time spinning your wheels, so make double and triple-sure that you're eligible.

If you wanted to you could start the process right away (assuming you can do a DCF) and draw it out for as long as you like. I did not want to rush my husband so we took our time with documentation gathering. We were approved for the I-130 in October 2005; we did not actually notify the embassy we were ready for an interview until July 17th of this year. I don't know if the conditional visa would be used if you STARTED the process before March 2007 or ENDED it before March 2007; again, you'll want to check with USCIS on that.

It is so helpful to read your experiences.

We have just had our I-130 approved by DCF in London (Chris has been living in the UK for 3 years) - but we want to slow the process down so that when I enter the US we will have been married 2 years (ie we need to go to the States after July 7th 2007).

Did you do anything between Oct-July apart from collect documents? Medical tests? I do worry that our I-864 may be turned down as Chris (US) doesn't have great links to the states - it is so hard to estimate how long this stuff will take!

In the meantime Chris will have to apply for ILR in the UK - but the I-864 goes on about how you have to show that you seriously want to move to the US - and I was wondering if having ILR in the UK would work against us. What do you think?

Emily.

[iclaudius 0]

It is so helpful to read your experiences.

Did you do anything between Oct-July apart from collect documents? Medical tests? I do worry that our I-864 may be turned down as Chris (US) doesn't have great links to the states - it is so hard to estimate how long this stuff will take!

In the meantime Chris will have to apply for ILR in the UK - but the I-864 goes on about how you have to show that you seriously want to move to the US - and I was wondering if having ILR in the UK would work against us. What do you think?

Emily.

Dear Emily

Tell me about it - we've got almost an identical story which is pretty surreal. I don't have many ties either so we might need to ask my father to co-sponsor the I-864. Re your question about ILR do you think the visa office will even notice if he has a ILR or LLR visa?

Peter

iclaudius, if memory serves me correctly even a permanent resident visa in the UK can expire if you spend more than x consecutive days outside of the United Kingdom...but I really don't know. The expertise here seems to mainly be in terms of US immigration, so if you have questions about your wife's visa I suggest you contact the IND at the Home Office.

Dear homesick - I think there is confusion. I am the Amercan and wife is the Brit. But I'll just reverse your advice for us!

If you want your wife to become a UK citizen, she is eligible to apply three years after marriage, possibly earlier due to her work permit.

any tips about determing citizen ship eligibility? I've been here since 2003 now and would love to get the UK citizen ship sorted. I read somewhere that the US doens't recognize dual nationalities but turns a blind eye if you take a second one. For simplicity sake it would be ideal at some point for us to become citizens of each others' countries!

I personally would not advise any US citizen to take up citizenship in another country simply due to the problems it has the potential to create.

Any other problems you are aware of?

It does mean once you're done you don't have to deal with the gov't again, so I say go for it.

This is ideal!!! I can't even tell you how much we spend on legal/visa fees and to do away with these as citizens would be fab. Thanks again for your advice

p

[EmilyandChris 0]

It is so helpful to read your experiences.

Did you do anything between Oct-July apart from collect documents? Medical tests? I do worry that our I-864 may be turned down as Chris (US) doesn't have great links to the states - it is so hard to estimate how long this stuff will take!

In the meantime Chris will have to apply for ILR in the UK - but the I-864 goes on about how you have to show that you seriously want to move to the US - and I was wondering if having ILR in the UK would work against us. What do you think?

Emily.

Dear Emily

Tell me about it - we've got almost an identical story which is pretty surreal. I don't have many ties either so we might need to ask my father to co-sponsor the I-864. Re your question about ILR do you think the visa office will even notice if he has a ILR or LLR visa?

Peter

iclaudius, if memory serves me correctly even a permanent resident visa in the UK can expire if you spend more than x consecutive days outside of the United Kingdom...but I really don't know. The expertise here seems to mainly be in terms of US immigration, so if you have questions about your wife's visa I suggest you contact the IND at the Home Office.

Dear homesick - I think there is confusion. I am the Amercan and wife is the Brit. But I'll just reverse your advice for us!

If you want your wife to become a UK citizen, she is eligible to apply three years after marriage, possibly earlier due to her work permit.

any tips about determing citizen ship eligibility? I've been here since 2003 now and would love to get the UK citizen ship sorted. I read somewhere that the US doens't recognize dual nationalities but turns a blind eye if you take a second one. For simplicity sake it would be ideal at some point for us to become citizens of each others' countries!

I personally would not advise any US citizen to take up citizenship in another country simply due to the problems it has the potential to create.

Any other problems you are aware of?

It does mean once you're done you don't have to deal with the gov't again, so I say go for it.

This is ideal!!! I can't even tell you how much we spend on legal/visa fees and to do away with these as citizens would be fab. Thanks again for your advice

p

Peter - I know! odd! You are right - hopefully they won't notice the ILR....I think it would make it easier if we want to come back to the UK at some point if Chris has it. Although it's all so pricey. Really we want to live between the 2 countries - not make a firm decision either way - but governments don't seem to like this approach.

We have asked Chris's Dad to be a joint sponsor as Chris doesn't meet the financial requirements - they want you to have been above the income level for 3 years - and make no exceptions - even if you were a student! (So ridiculous)

But even with that I am still a bit worried - Chris hasn't filed tax returns or voted or anything like that. He does have a bank account in the states. We're going to put our destination address as his folks - but I don't know if they will buy that either.....

I'm quite confused about the timing - I don't want to have the visa issued until about July 2007 - so don't know whether to press on with it all or hang back. Some timelines seem to be really quick - others take ages. What a pain! It is a minefield.

Emily.

[iclaudius 0]

That's exactly what we want as well. We got together with the understanding it would be unfair to family & friends to settle permanently in one country or the other.

But yes it seems that neither country wants flirters going back and forth.

I think we'll be in the same boat in terms of domicile because of income. So likewise I hope my dad's address/salary will suffice.

Re timing, it seems to take about 4-6 months between applying and interview in London. But you have another 6 months in which to use the visa to enter the country after that. Which gives a bit of flexibility, if like us, you won't plan to move back there until jobs are arranged.

keep me posted - you're a step ahead of us so we'll watch with interest!

[EmilyandChris 0]

That's exactly what we want as well. We got together with the understanding it would be unfair to family & friends to settle permanently in one country or the other.

But yes it seems that neither country wants flirters going back and forth.

I think we'll be in the same boat in terms of domicile because of income. So likewise I hope my dad's address/salary will suffice.

Re timing, it seems to take about 4-6 months between applying and interview in London. But you have another 6 months in which to use the visa to enter the country after that. Which gives a bit of flexibility, if like us, you won't plan to move back there until jobs are arranged.

keep me posted - you're a step ahead of us so we'll watch with interest!

I know! We are the same - we are happy in both England and the US - and don't want to commit to either one. Hopefully we'll find a way....

We'll keep you posted - it seems like a long old process!

Emily.

[meauxna 15]

Am I also right in understanding that if we returned to the UK in the future for 4 years to live in the UK my wife's visa would expire and to return to live in USA we would have to re-apply for a visa? Maybe we need also look into her becoming a US citizen...

Congrats on the confirmation from London; that at least narrows down what exactly you'll be doing visa-wise.

My UKC husband just naturalized, as a part of our plan. This gives us tremendous flexibility now and allows us to live outside the US for indefinite periods of time.

Because we filed via DCF, he was eligible to apply just shy of 3 years after his first immigrant entry to the US.

The US does not officially recognize dual citizenship and I personally would not advise any US citizen to take up citizenship in another country simply due to the problems it has the potential to create.

I always recommend Rich Wales' excellent dual citizenship FAQ:

Dual Citizenship FAQ

Dual Nationality and

United States Law

by Rich Wales

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

I'm quite confused about the timing - I don't want to have the visa issued until about July 2007 - so don't know whether to press on with it all or hang back. Some timelines seem to be really quick - others take ages. What a pain! It is a minefield.

Emily.

Emily,

Why no visa until July 07?

When looking at timelines, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. London direct-filed cases take 4-6 months to complete (and then the visa is valid for 6 months after approval).

I wonder if the long timelines you are looking at are for US-filed cases?