TOS Violations and Moderator Responses

[Teddy B 17,251]

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I understand one of us just got a time out for speaking his mind. I won't mention who it was, or who gave the time out since I would prefer to be able to stay here and speak mine. But nuff said that it was a longtime member, and the mod is one who has been known to violate TOS and plead ignorance.

I'm out of +1s. So +1!

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I'm about to give up on this place after reading these last few pages. What a joke.

And not a single straight answer from moderation. Shocking.

[Novembro 1,763]

I understand one of us just got a time out for speaking his mind.

Didn't anyone tell you? Speaking your mind isn't family friendly.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Where's Kathryn in all this? I would personally value her input. Although we don't always agree, I respect her opinion.

[SMOKE 1,426]

late to the party.

why doesn't the person that got suspended just wait until the suspension is up, then take the issue up with ewok or with the moderator(s) involved privately? 'privately' so there isn't X# of posters throwing their two cents in.

[Karee 4,190]

Free Kip!

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

late to the party.

why doesn't the person that got suspended just wait until the suspension is up, then take the issue up with ewok or with the moderator(s) involved privately? 'privately' so there isn't X# of posters throwing their two cents in.

I think because it is a bit of a trend lately with the overreaching modding - first with "family friendly" pictures and now with this that perhaps it is an issue that is affecting everyone.

[Vanitas 310]

late to the party.

why doesn't the person that got suspended just wait until the suspension is up, then take the issue up with ewok or with the moderator(s) involved privately? 'privately' so there isn't X# of posters throwing their two cents in.

If you actually read the stuff instead, you'll find that Nich's suspension IS up, but before she can post or do anything on the site she has to accept a warning. As she refuses to do this because she disputes it, she is essentially locked out from the site.

[SMOKE 1,426]

I think because it is a bit of a trend lately with the overreaching modding - first with "family friendly" pictures and now with this that perhaps it is an issue that is affecting everyone.

that's understandable. but, lets be honest here. nothing is going to happen in this thread or even publicly as a result of this thread. if done privately, parties involved would be more accepting of their actions being corrected & redirected in the future. publicly dragging a mod through the mud isn't going to resolve this issue or allow for correction going forward.

I don't know nich or nick???, but they have a supportive following for a reason. they're good people that do what they can to pay it forward. this is an excellent opportunity for them to take the high road, stop this thread, and improve the site forward.

i'm not a let it go kinda guy either. I just hate seeing valuable members leave over something that fixable.

[SMOKE 1,426]

If you actually read the stuff instead, you'll find that Nich's suspension IS up, but before she can post or do anything on the site she has to accept a warning. As she refuses to do this because she disputes it, she is essentially locked out from the site.

pride? pfft. tell them to accept it & do what they can to move the site forward. they like the place or at least use to. help the mods fix it.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Sorry I am so late to this discussion. I have been dealing with a lot of personal life concerns recently so have not been able to commit the time to VJ as I usually have in the past. The situations are moving along so hopefully will be well enough advanced soon that I can be a lot more present.

Please don't feel that your comments are unheard or ignored. The moderation team has been discussing this situation in the report forum and the mod forum, reviewing the original report, the posts involved, the posters and the various decisions and choices made.

While we don't discuss mod action taken generally with anyone other than the individual involved, sometimes, more details can help to clear the air so I am going to go over what happened, from the perspective of the moderation team.

You have all correctly identified the thread which resulted in a removal of 2 posts and the issuance of a 24 hour suspension. I have gone through the thread and the post in question - which can still be read at the moderator level and above - and while I agree with the moderator involved decision, I wonder if the poster did not realize why her post created a problem.

The issue under discussion was the legality of adjusting status from a Visa Waiver Program. The issue hasn't always been clear-cut as many people have adjusted from a VWP status, and then for a while West Coast petitions were being refused with one or more USCIS office stating that VWP petitioners were ineligible to adjust from that status, which meant they had no appeal and had to leave the US. Since this was not a consistent decision across the country, it was very confusing as petitions from the west coast were being denied, while petitions on the east coast were being granted. That ambiguity was introduced by USCIS and it did impact quite a number of our members, hence the confusion.

Nich-Nick's response provided a link showing that someone who entered the US on a VWP was eligible to adjust status from within the US. If she had only posted the link, there would have been no problem, however in the rest of her post she went on to advise the OP about what to look out for and how to prepare if he chose to use the VWP with the deliberate intent of entering the US and applying to adjust status - in other words, using it to immigrate rather than visit. Intentionally using one immigration program to bypass another, more time-consuming but legally proper immigration program is visa fraud - a violation of US immigration law. Advocating or advising someone on how to commit visa fraud is a violation of the Terms of Service for Visa Journey:

Condone or instruct, either directly or indirectly, others on how to commit fraudulent or illegal immigration activities in any way, shape, manner or method.

The whole moderation team read Nich Nick's post and unanimously agreed that her choice of words was instructing the OP on how to enter on the VWP with the full intention of using it to immigrate. Other posters also got the same message and the post was reported via the Report button.

Accordingly, the post was removed, and Nich Nick was sent a message from the warning center notifying her of the violation,the TOS involved and the 24 hour suspension. This is actually a reduced suspension from the recommendation provided by administration in recognition that this poster does not have a history of making inappropriate posts nor violating TOS. We were actually all quite surprised to read the post in question which is why I wonder if Nich Nick was unaware of how it came across.

Suspensions are issued through a structured protocol enacted by a function called the 'warning center'. The moderator will type in the message to the recipient, make file comments for the moderation team and administration - who see both messages - then selects the appropriate actions from pull down menu options. The site software then issues the warning and enacts the modification action. Before the recent software updates, individuals would say they had never received the notice and that led to concerns that people did not know why they received certain moderator attention. So administration added a 'read and respond' function to the warning message. The recipient needs to acknowledge that they have received and read the action before the software will free up their account to start posting again. This is a guarantee for administration that the individual knows why he or she received this action. The read and respond function is nothing personal aimed at any individual, nor is it something over which any individual moderator has any control. It is embedded into the software of the site and happens automatically.

I agree that Nich Nick has been a great member of this site, and it may just have been bad judgement for her to word her post in the way she did. The post, however, clearly provides supportive commentary on committing visa fraud by using a VWP with the intention of coming permanently to the US, and as such, does violate the terms of service. So, the report was treated according to the guidelines posted by administration, the post was removed and the suspension issued. It could have been bad judgement on the part of the poster, or even that sometimes even good members make mistakes - (heaven knows I have made a number of them myself and I believe I am generally a good member) - but the report and action were appropriate to the circumstances.

I know that the recent changes have caused a lot of concern and confusion, and sometimes administration and moderation are not always as clear or consistent as we would like to be on explaining our reasons or our actions. It isn't our objective, though, to 'go after' people, to be vindictive, or power hungry or even to 'punish' members, although I know that is the way it can be perceived. It would be great if we didn't have to worry about making sure everyone follows the TOS because they are doing this for themselves. Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen, and either deliberately or by accident, inappropriate posts happen. Visa Journey has a responsibility, however, to ensure that the actions of our members do not put other members at risk, cause them to violate American law, or to make choices that compromise the well-being of their own visa journeys.. Trying to be fair and even-handed is a lot more difficult than it appears as nothing is ever a level playing field. All we can do is our best. Sometimes that is enough - and sometimes it isn't.

[Vanitas 310]

More long-winded, "We're never at fault" tripe from the Lead Mod.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Interesting. Kathryn, I sympathise, but given her track record wouldn't a mere removal and a "don't do that" PM be more appropriate? Goodness knows I've received my fair share of that combination.

Glad to hear things are improving in your life, though.

[SMOKE 1,426]

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Edited March 20, 2014 by SMOKE