Do you want the United States to default?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yes, a default is a default on debt. Not a government shutdown or a downgrade.

A default could help debt holders by fixing the value of the securities, before the US Government starts inflating its currency to secure even more debt.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes, a default is a default on debt. Not a government shutdown or a downgrade.

So if we do default and our rating is downgraded to a 'D', would it be possible to actually walk away from our debt obligations and wipe the slate clean?

As opposed to delaying the payment?

National debt: $0

Edited July 29, 2011 by mawilson

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

So if we do default and our rating is downgraded to a 'D', would it be possible to actually walk away from our debt obligations and wipe the slate clean?

As opposed to delaying the payment?

National debt: $0

isn't something like 70% of the debt held by the US public?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

isn't something like 70% of the debt held by the US public?

A good portion of the debt is just money the government owes itself in the form of trust funds.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So if we do default and our rating is downgraded to a 'D', would it be possible to actually walk away from our debt obligations and wipe the slate clean?

As opposed to delaying the payment?

National debt: $0

Worth keeping in mind in the context that more than 50% of the national debt is actually owed to Americans. So now we're talking about stiffing Americans by more than $7 trillion dollars? But don't raise taxes by a mere trillion over a decade. That would cost Americans too much. Stiff them more than seven times that in one fell swoop. Excellent strategery. Gotta love Tea Party idiocy.

A good portion of the debt is just money the government owes itself in the form of trust funds.

Like the SS trust fund and the medicare trust fund? Those funds are owed to whom, ultimately?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[웃 910]

So if we do default and our rating is downgraded to a 'D', would it be possible to actually walk away from our debt obligations and wipe the slate clean?

As opposed to delaying the payment?

National debt: $0

If it's anything like personal bankruptcy then it will only be on our report for 7 years! After that clean slate!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Like the SS trust fund and the medicare trust fund? Those funds are owed to whom, ultimately?

It taking money out of your Christmas account and putting it into your checking account, then spending the money. Guess what happens when the kids complain about having no presents? Time for some tough love.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It taking money out of your Christmas account and putting it into your checking account, then spending the money. Guess what happens when the kids complain about having no presents? Time for some tough love.

Not quite. If I take money out of that Christmas account and pay it back to that Christmas account with interest - more than what it gets sitting there but less than what it would cost me to borrow that amount from another lender - then the only way the kids would complain about no presents on Christmas would be if I was a deadbeat tea partier. If I am not one of those - and I'm not - then the money in the Christmas account has been paid back - with interest - and there are actually more presents than there would have been otherwise. Meanwhile, I also saved some money since I borrowed at a lower rate. It's a win-win. Well, as long as I don't become a deadbeat tea partier.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Not quite. If I take money out of that Christmas account and pay it back to that Christmas account with interest - more than what it gets sitting there but less than what it would cost me to borrow that amount from another lender - then the only way the kids would complain about no presents on Christmas would be if I was a deadbeat tea partier. If I am not one of those - and I'm not - then the money in the Christmas account has been paid back - with interest - and there are actually more presents than there would have been otherwise. Meanwhile, I also saved some money since I borrowed at a lower rate. It's a win-win. Well, as long as I don't become a deadbeat tea partier.

And you wonder why kids are failing to actually learn anything these days.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And you wonder why kids are failing to actually learn anything these days.

What harm is done to the Christmas account if the money borrowed from it is paid back?

[^_^ 5,021]

What harm is done to the Christmas account if the money borrowed from it is paid back?

He dislikes interest. He's a hardline Muslim.

[웃 910]

What harm is done to the Christmas Holiday account if the money borrowed from it is paid back?

Please, be respectful.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

He dislikes interest. He's a hardline Muslim.

I think he resents honoring debt obligations. He's aligned with the deadbeats in Congress.

Please, be respectful.

My bad.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

He dislikes interest. He's a hardline Muslim.

I dislike paying interest. You got that right. Everything I own is paid for. Interest is lost revenue.

[thongd4me 69]

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself. - Mark Twain

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - Winston Churchill

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man....which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. - G. Gordon Liddy

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. - James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. - Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown Univ.

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. - Ronald Reagan (1986)

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. - Will Rogers

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's 'free!' - P.J. O'Rourke

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. - Voltaire (1764)

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! - Pericles (430 B.C.)

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session. - Mark Twain (1866)

Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it. - Unknown

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings.

The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. - Mark Twain

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

There is no distinctly native American criminal class...save Congress. - Mark Twain

What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. - Edward Langley, Artist (1928 - 1995)

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?" - Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address, 1/20/1981

Edited July 29, 2011 by thongd4me