Why evangelicals should stop evangelizing...

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

On a sidenote, and to tie out to Brother SOG's hijacking statement, my personal belief is that religion/spirituality is a "Lot of Work!". You get out of it what you put into it...and....(here is the punch line...hold on...hold on...)...you know how much some people are adverse to work! I just aint' gonna happen!

Its easier to be apathetic than to work, no matter what the discipline

VJSheesh...that is a lot of posting for me for one day...man, I even have a heart now! WTH did that happen?

Blessings,

BishopM

My latest meditations have been on the line between being a conscious, living being, and non-existence. I like to believe there must be something beyond this existence, less this all be for naught. I find it hard to find any solace, in the idea this flash of consciousness serves no purpose once that light fades.

[웃 910]

My latest meditations have been on the line between being a conscious, living being, and non-existence. I like to believe there must be something beyond this existence, less this all be for naught. I find it hard to find any solace, in the idea this flash of consciousness serves no purpose once that light fades.

When you die you get non-existence. 75 years isn't really a flash of consciousness.

Well I guess if you believe that from the time you are a newborn you will be around for eternity. But that is kinda weird, isn't? Oh wait, that is what religious folk believe! That really is a cool belief. I will be around forever and ever, even after I die...Could be true but I really doubt it!!

[luckytxn 2,265]

When you die you get non-existence. 75 years isn't really a flash of consciousness.

Well I guess if you believe that from the time you are a newborn you will be around for eternity. But that is kinda weird, isn't? Oh wait, that is what religious folk believe! That really is a cool belief. I will be around forever and ever, even after I die...Could be true but I really doubt it!!

No what would really suck is if you die and come back as a woman.

[scandal 951]

No what would really suck is if you die and come back as a woman.

My wife is Buddhist and believes in reincarnation. I keep telling her she's killing her grandma every time she swats a fly. I may be cruel, but I think she shouldn't swat flies.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

When you die you get non-existence. 75 years isn't really a flash of consciousness.

Well I guess if you believe that from the time you are a newborn you will be around for eternity. But that is kinda weird, isn't? Oh wait, that is what religious folk believe! That really is a cool belief. I will be around forever and ever, even after I die...Could be true but I really doubt it!!

It would be awesome if true... Maybe for our great-grandchildren scientists will learn to download the makeup of a persons brain into a machine and let us live in a simulated world.. Whole new religions based on the artificial "after-life" worlds they have created with monstrous server farms ran by the priests... Wow I think I have an idea for a new sci-fi novel.

Edited July 24, 2011 by OnMyWayID

[luckytxn 2,265]

My wife is Buddhist and believes in reincarnation. I keep telling her she's killing her grandma every time she swats a fly. I may be cruel, but I think she shouldn't swat flies.

My wife is Catholic and I buy her cans of bug spray and she seems to love killing bugs a lot. I once told her that every bug she kills means they will go to heaven and bother her ancestors. She just said that it was good because then her ancestors can have as much fun as her in killing them again.

Edited July 24, 2011 by luckytxn

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

75 years isn't really a flash of consciousness.

For a mountain, it is. For a soap bubble, it is an eternity.

[웃 910]

For a mountain, it is. For a soap bubble, it is an eternity.

Are you a mountain or a soap bubble?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Are you a mountain or a soap bubble?

I am over the hump, and picking up downhill speed. Life doesn't seem that long from my perspective.

[TBoneTX 46,125]

My problem with missionaries is with any who have attitudes of "I'm gonna save your soul, or I'm gonna kill you." A lot of that throughout history, sigh man.

My answer to missionaries is typically "Thank you for your interest. I'm firm in my faith, so I really think that your admirable efforts and energy will be better spent elsewhere. And thanks for offering me your literature; again, it would be of more use to others." The last time that I said this, I got "Awesome -- thanks!" and they ran off.

Indeed Jews don't proselytize those of other faiths; however (and I can't immediately find a link), there have been efforts in larger cities (New York?) to try to get existing secular Jews to be more involved in the knowledge and observance of their own faith. This was done, I recall, by "Torah Tanks" going through the streets. Rather neat, to think about it, si man.

Edited July 25, 2011 by TBoneTX

[scandal 951]

Indeed Jews don't proselytize those of other faiths; however (and I can't immediately find a link), there have been efforts in larger cities (New York?) to try to get existing secular Jews to be more involved in the knowledge and observance of their own faith. This was done, I recall, by "Torah Tanks" going through the streets. Rather neat, to think about it, si man.

Oh, sure we definitely do outreach to our own. That's the core philosophy of Habad Lubavitch, and of much of Hassidut. It's also prominent in non-Hasidic streams such as Hafetz Hayim as well as in youth movements; USY, NCSY, BBYO, etc.

[B_J 2,752]

Blessed Sunday Morning P&R!

Here is a Sunday shot of R...which has been missing a bit in the P&R

By Carl Medearis, Special to CNN Why Evangelicals should stop evangelizing

Let’s do an exercise. I want you to fill in the blank on what you think you know about me based on what I’m about to tell you.

Here goes: Twenty years ago, I became a missionary. My wife and I left our home in Colorado Springs, Colorado to move to Beirut, Lebanon. Our job description was to plant churches and evangelize to Muslims.

Based on what I just said, Carl Medearis is a ______________ .

Depending on your background, the blank may look something like this:

Carl Medearis is a... hero of the Christian faith, a saintly super-man willing to sacrifice the comforts of home in order to share the love of Jesus Christ with those who have never heard the gospel.

Or this:

Carl Medearis is a... right-wing extremist who destroys cultures, tears apart families and paves the way for neo-colonialist crusaders to invade, occupy and plunder the resources of local populations.

Quite a range, isn’t it?

For one group of people, the words “evangelist” and “missionary” bring to mind pious heroes performing good deeds that are unattainable for the average Christian. For another group, those same words represent just about everything that’s wrong with the world.

I understand the confusion.

Based on my experiences of living and traveling around the world, I know that religion is often an identity marker that determines people’s access to jobs, resources, civil liberties and political power.

When I lived in Lebanon I saw firsthand how destructive an obsession with religious identity could be. Because of the sectarian nature of Lebanese politics, modern Lebanese history is rife with coups, invasions, civil wars and government shutdowns.

When I tell my Christian friends in America that some of the fiercest militias were (and are) Christian, most are shocked. It doesn’t fit the us-versus-them mentality that evangelism fosters, in which we are always the innocent victims and they are always the aggressors.

This us-versus-them thinking is odd, given that Jesus was constantly breaking down walls between Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, men and women, sinners and saints. That’s why we have the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Jews in Jesus’ day thought of the Samaritans as the violent heretics, much the same way that Christians think of Muslims today. The idea that a Samaritan could be good was scandalous to first century Jews.

Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls?

Even the Apostle Paul insisted that it’s faith in Jesus that matters, not converting to a new religion or a new socio-religious identity.

What if evangelicals today, instead of focusing on “evangelizing” and “converting” people, were to begin to think of Jesus not as starting a new religion, but as the central figure of a movement that transcends religious distinctions and identities?

Jesus the uniter of humanity, not Jesus the divider. How might that change the way we look at others?

This is more than just a semantic difference.

When I used to think of myself as a missionary, I was obsessed with converting Muslims (or anybody for that matter) to what I thought of as “Christianity.” I had a set of doctrinal litmus tests that the potential convert had to pass before I would consider them “in” or one of “us.”

Funny thing is, Jesus never said, “Go into the world and convert people to Christianity.” What he said was, “Go and make disciples of all nations.”

Encouraging anyone and everyone to become an apprentice of Jesus, without manipulation, is a more open, dynamic and relational way of helping people who want to become more like Jesus — regardless of their religious identity.

Just because I believe that evangelicals should stop evangelizing doesn’t mean that they should to stop speaking of Jesus.

I speak of Jesus everywhere I go and with everyone I meet.

As founder and president of a company called International Initiatives, my work is aimed at building relationships among Christian leaders in the West and among Muslim leaders in the Middle East.

It may come as a surprise to many Christians that Muslims are generally open to studying the life of Jesus as a model for leadership because they revere him as a prophet.

But now that I’m no longer obsessed with converting people to Christianity, I’ve found that talking about Jesus is much easier and far more compelling.

I believe that doctrine is important, but it’s not more important than following Jesus.

Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who’s “in” and who’s “out,” why don’t we simply invite people to follow Jesus — and let Jesus run his kingdom?

Inviting people to love, trust, and follow Jesus is something the world can live with. And since evangelicals like to say that it’s not about religion, but rather a personal relationship with Jesus, perhaps we should practice what we preach.

Blessings - BishopM

Are you familiar with Tony Campolo and Brian McLaren. Reading this reminded me of some of their writing. Good stuff.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Blessed Sunday Morning P&R!

Here is a Sunday shot of R...which has been missing a bit in the P&R

Blessings - BishopM

A fantastic post, you deserve an extra dose of Peace and Blessings for this one.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Hi Mark, glad to see you here too on occasion. Vickie and I are doing well, and we've talked of taking a road trip to DC at some point - we'll let you and Aam and May know if that comes to be

I'm all for interfaith discussions. If your goal is to educate about your faith and views, I'm open to that. I'm always willing to learn something new. But if the goal is to "invite people to follow Jesus", I'm not open to that. Sorry. Jesus just ain't my Salvation, my Prophet, my anything. Never was, never will be, don't really want or need the solicitation.

Say, would you be open to my "invitation" to reject Jesus and the Gospels and the New Testament and instead accept the Torah and Talmud as your primary texts? Just an "invitation" to see the compelling power and clarity of the views of the Gaonim. Nah, didn't think you would be.

In general, Jews don't proselytize. We don't do conversion outreach, neither by sword nor by solicitation. We only reluctantly accept converts who come seeking Judaism. That largely explains the billion+ Catholics and billion+ Moslems in the world, but the relatively paltry 12million or so Jews in the world. We're not big mass marketers of our brand

How do you explain Hebrew National, then?

[TBoneTX 46,125]

How do you explain Hebrew National, then?

It's to get the women thinking in the right direction, see man.