Why evangelicals should stop evangelizing...

[BishopM 114]

Blessed Sunday Morning P&R!

Here is a Sunday shot of R...which has been missing a bit in the P&R

By Carl Medearis, Special to CNN Why Evangelicals should stop evangelizing

Let’s do an exercise. I want you to fill in the blank on what you think you know about me based on what I’m about to tell you.

Here goes: Twenty years ago, I became a missionary. My wife and I left our home in Colorado Springs, Colorado to move to Beirut, Lebanon. Our job description was to plant churches and evangelize to Muslims.

Based on what I just said, Carl Medearis is a ______________ .

Depending on your background, the blank may look something like this:

Carl Medearis is a... hero of the Christian faith, a saintly super-man willing to sacrifice the comforts of home in order to share the love of Jesus Christ with those who have never heard the gospel.

Or this:

Carl Medearis is a... right-wing extremist who destroys cultures, tears apart families and paves the way for neo-colonialist crusaders to invade, occupy and plunder the resources of local populations.

Quite a range, isn’t it?

For one group of people, the words “evangelist” and “missionary” bring to mind pious heroes performing good deeds that are unattainable for the average Christian. For another group, those same words represent just about everything that’s wrong with the world.

I understand the confusion.

Based on my experiences of living and traveling around the world, I know that religion is often an identity marker that determines people’s access to jobs, resources, civil liberties and political power.

When I lived in Lebanon I saw firsthand how destructive an obsession with religious identity could be. Because of the sectarian nature of Lebanese politics, modern Lebanese history is rife with coups, invasions, civil wars and government shutdowns.

When I tell my Christian friends in America that some of the fiercest militias were (and are) Christian, most are shocked. It doesn’t fit the us-versus-them mentality that evangelism fosters, in which we are always the innocent victims and they are always the aggressors.

This us-versus-them thinking is odd, given that Jesus was constantly breaking down walls between Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, men and women, sinners and saints. That’s why we have the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Jews in Jesus’ day thought of the Samaritans as the violent heretics, much the same way that Christians think of Muslims today. The idea that a Samaritan could be good was scandalous to first century Jews.

Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls?

Even the Apostle Paul insisted that it’s faith in Jesus that matters, not converting to a new religion or a new socio-religious identity.

What if evangelicals today, instead of focusing on “evangelizing” and “converting” people, were to begin to think of Jesus not as starting a new religion, but as the central figure of a movement that transcends religious distinctions and identities?

Jesus the uniter of humanity, not Jesus the divider. How might that change the way we look at others?

This is more than just a semantic difference.

When I used to think of myself as a missionary, I was obsessed with converting Muslims (or anybody for that matter) to what I thought of as “Christianity.” I had a set of doctrinal litmus tests that the potential convert had to pass before I would consider them “in” or one of “us.”

Funny thing is, Jesus never said, “Go into the world and convert people to Christianity.” What he said was, “Go and make disciples of all nations.”

Encouraging anyone and everyone to become an apprentice of Jesus, without manipulation, is a more open, dynamic and relational way of helping people who want to become more like Jesus — regardless of their religious identity.

Just because I believe that evangelicals should stop evangelizing doesn’t mean that they should to stop speaking of Jesus.

I speak of Jesus everywhere I go and with everyone I meet.

As founder and president of a company called International Initiatives, my work is aimed at building relationships among Christian leaders in the West and among Muslim leaders in the Middle East.

It may come as a surprise to many Christians that Muslims are generally open to studying the life of Jesus as a model for leadership because they revere him as a prophet.

But now that I’m no longer obsessed with converting people to Christianity, I’ve found that talking about Jesus is much easier and far more compelling.

I believe that doctrine is important, but it’s not more important than following Jesus.

Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who’s “in” and who’s “out,” why don’t we simply invite people to follow Jesus — and let Jesus run his kingdom?

Inviting people to love, trust, and follow Jesus is something the world can live with. And since evangelicals like to say that it’s not about religion, but rather a personal relationship with Jesus, perhaps we should practice what we preach.

Blessings - BishopM

[웃 910]

I want you to fill in the blank on what you think you know about me based on what I'm about to tell you.

Here goes: Twenty years ago, I became a missionary. My wife and I left our home in Colorado Springs, Colorado to move to Beirut, Lebanon. Our job description was to plant churches and evangelize to Muslims.

Based on what I just said, Carl Medearis is a ______________ .

Christian missionary

[scandal 951]

When I used to think of myself as a missionary, I was obsessed with converting Muslims (or anybody for that matter) to what I thought of as “Christianity.” I had a set of doctrinal litmus tests that the potential convert had to pass before I would consider them “in” or one of “us.”

Funny thing is, Jesus never said, “Go into the world and convert people to Christianity.” What he said was, “Go and make disciples of all nations.”

Encouraging anyone and everyone to become an apprentice of Jesus, without manipulation, is a more open, dynamic and relational way of helping people who want to become more like Jesus — regardless of their religious identity.

Just because I believe that evangelicals should stop evangelizing doesn’t mean that they should to stop speaking of Jesus.

I speak of Jesus everywhere I go and with everyone I meet.

I 'get' that he's drawing a distinction between evangelizing Christian dogma vs. being a disciple of Jesus. I get that there's a difference. But it's still evangelism. He's still reaching out to people who are not followers of Jesus and trying to convince them to become such. That's the definition of evangelism. And I'm not interested in what he's selling. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When I tell my Christian friends in America that some of the fiercest militias were (and are) Christian, most are shocked. It doesn’t fit the us-versus-them mentality that evangelism fosters, in which we are always the innocent victims and they are always the aggressors.

Ya, tell me about it.

The bottom line is, he still thinks that Jesus (pbuh) is God, no? Muslims love Jesus, but that we should fixate on him above all other prophets or that he is God are ideas that are alien to us. Only God is God, and Jesus was a follower of God, as was Muhammad, as was Moses, as was Abraham, (pbut) etc.

In fact, the Quran tells us that we should not revere one of God's messengers over any other. So, the emphasis on Jesus is against God's law for Muslims. The Quran also tells us that what Muhammad (pbuh) taught was not a new religion called Islam. It says that the Message was the same that Jesus and the other aforementioned prophets taught; a faith that requires a belief in the One God who does not share dominion with any other.

When a Muslim says "I practice Islam", it doesn't mean they follow a faith that distinguishes them from those who received the Message from Abraham or Jesus. It means they submit to Him and only Him, heart and soul. We have freedom of choice, but our choice should be to please Him first. In that way, Christians, Jews, Muslims, we are intended to be alike, to find common ground. That common ground fails when Christians insist that God and Jesus are one.

[BishopM 114]

I 'get' that he's drawing a distinction between evangelizing Christian dogma vs. being a disciple of Jesus. I get that there's a difference. But it's still evangelism. He's still reaching out to people who are not followers of Jesus and trying to convince them to become such. That's the definition of evangelism. And I'm not interested in what he's selling. Thanks, but no thanks.

Hey Brother Scandal,

Great to see you roaming the boards from time to time again. Hope you and Vikki are doing well...

Your point is solid from the aspect of reading the definition of evangelism. I disagree to an extent though in that I framed the article in my mind as approaching the topic of religion/Jesus from the vantage point of polemics. From a polemics viewpoint, I don't see it as a 'salemans peddling his wares'...but rather an honest discussion. Through the polemical discussion, people can make up their own minds on whether or not to follow...which the author said fairly with his conclusion, "Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who's in and whos out, why dont we simply invite people to follow Jesus and let Jesus run his kingdom?"

meh..you know...my two cents

Blessings - B

Edited July 24, 2011 by BishopM

[scandal 951]

Hey Brother Scandal,

Great to see you roaming the boards from time to time again. Hope you and Vikki are doing well...

Your point is solid from the aspect of reading the definition of evangelism. I disagree to an extent though in that I framed the article in my mind as approaching the topic of religion/Jesus from the vantage point of polemics. From a polemics viewpoint, I don't see it as a 'salemans peddling his wares'...but rather an honest discussion. Through the polemical discussion, people can make up their own minds on whether or not to follow...which the author said fairly with his conclusion, "Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who's “in” and who’s “out,” why don’t we simply invite people to follow Jesus — and let Jesus run his kingdom?"

meh..you know...my two cents

Blessings - B

Hi Mark, glad to see you here too on occasion. Vickie and I are doing well, and we've talked of taking a road trip to DC at some point - we'll let you and Aam and May know if that comes to be

I'm all for interfaith discussions. If your goal is to educate about your faith and views, I'm open to that. I'm always willing to learn something new. But if the goal is to "invite people to follow Jesus", I'm not open to that. Sorry. Jesus just ain't my Salvation, my Prophet, my anything. Never was, never will be, don't really want or need the solicitation.

Say, would you be open to my "invitation" to reject Jesus and the Gospels and the New Testament and instead accept the Torah and Talmud as your primary texts? Just an "invitation" to see the compelling power and clarity of the views of the Gaonim. Nah, didn't think you would be.

In general, Jews don't proselytize. We don't do conversion outreach, neither by sword nor by solicitation. We only reluctantly accept converts who come seeking Judaism. That largely explains the billion+ Catholics and billion+ Moslems in the world, but the relatively paltry 12million or so Jews in the world. We're not big mass marketers of our brand

[BishopM 114]

Ya, tell me about it.

The bottom line is, he still thinks that Jesus (pbuh) is God, no? Muslims love Jesus, but that we should fixate on him above all other prophets or that he is God are ideas that are alien to us. Only God is God, and Jesus was a follower of God, as was Muhammad, as was Moses, as was Abraham, (pbut) etc.

In fact, the Quran tells us that we should not revere one of God's messengers over any other. So, the emphasis on Jesus is against God's law for Muslims. The Quran also tells us that what Muhammad (pbuh) taught was not a new religion called Islam. It says that the Message was the same that Jesus and the other aforementioned prophets taught; a faith that requires a belief in the One God who does not share dominion with any other.

When a Muslim says "I practice Islam", it doesn't mean they follow a faith that distinguishes them from those who received the Message from Abraham or Jesus. It means they submit to Him and only Him, heart and soul. We have freedom of choice, but our choice should be to please Him first. In that way, Christians, Jews, Muslims, we are intended to be alike, to find common ground. That common ground fails when Christians insist that God and Jesus are one.

Hello Sister Sofiyya,

I've had the same experience which I believe you've had: traveling/living outside of the USA and (in my case) being embarrassed by the tactics of agressive 'believe or be damned!' Christian missionaries. In my opinion, its a shame when these missionaries don't take time to try to understand the cornerstones of different faiths and cultures before they go in spewing the Gospel like machine gun fire upon crowds which have no chance to engage in dialog. It makes me sigh...and does not bode well for spreading any message of peace and love.

Granted, Muslims/Jews/others do not accept the incarnation of God in Jesus. As a Catholic, I certainly accept this. Yet, that does not mean that we cannot have a dialog...again, from a polemics vantage if no other vantage. In our Catholic faith, and as an outcome of Vatican II, the Roman Catholic Cathechism states the following, which I find to be quite beautiful, "RCC Cat. # 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims: The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.""

I believe you're a historian, so while the Catechism's words above do sound nice, I beleive from a historical standpoint there is little doubt that Catholics have not acted in this manner though. After all, Vatican II is only 50 years old...and alot of Catholic history contradicts these statements coming out of Vatican II. With full recognition of this fact, Pope John Paul II stated, "Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."

Its a start...

Blessings to you,

B

[BishopM 114]

Say, would you be open to my "invitation" to reject Jesus and the Gospels and the New Testament and instead accept the Torah and Talmud as your primary texts? Just an "invitation" to see the compelling power and clarity of the views of the Gaonim. Nah, didn't think you would be.

Good Point! I haven't had any Jewish tracts under my windshield wipers lately (or ever!)

In fact though, an evaluation of Deuteronomy 6:4 Shema was part of my decision making process for becoming a Catholic...hence the value of polemics...

I have a friend who is a die-hard/evangelical Pentecostal Christian (Christians denying the Trinity) and he's perpetually trying to get me to renounce the Trinitarian formula (Father/Son/Holy Spirit). Yet, while I do find his conversations/viewpoints interesting (he is quite persuasive), its really only hitting my intellect at that point and in turn only reassures my initial reasoning as to the 'whys' of why I am Catholic. I'm too old to be convinced otherwise now! :lol:

Let us know if you swing by the DC area, we'll meet on the WH lawn for our own 'beergate'

Blessings - M

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Missionaries of all faiths have reshaped the cultures of the world in their own image, much as capitalism, mercantilism, and socialism has done. Should emissaries of the civilized world cease spreading, "The Word"? I guess it depends whether that word is made available only to those willing to listen, and if those that choose not to listen, can keep going about their lives without incident. History tells us that is not likely.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[luckytxn 2,265]

Blessed Sunday Morning P&R!

Here is a Sunday shot of R...which has been missing a bit in the P&R

By Carl Medearis, Special to CNN Why Evangelicals should stop evangelizing

Let's do an exercise. I want you to fill in the blank on what you think you know about me based on what I'm about to tell you.

Here goes: Twenty years ago, I became a missionary. My wife and I left our home in Colorado Springs, Colorado to move to Beirut, Lebanon. Our job description was to plant churches and evangelize to Muslims.

Based on what I just said, Carl Medearis is a ______________ .

Depending on your background, the blank may look something like this:

Carl Medearis is a... hero of the Christian faith, a saintly super-man willing to sacrifice the comforts of home in order to share the love of Jesus Christ with those who have never heard the gospel.

Or this:

Carl Medearis is a... right-wing extremist who destroys cultures, tears apart families and paves the way for neo-colonialist crusaders to invade, occupy and plunder the resources of local populations.

Quite a range, isn't it?

For one group of people, the words "evangelist" and "missionary" bring to mind pious heroes performing good deeds that are unattainable for the average Christian. For another group, those same words represent just about everything that's wrong with the world.

I understand the confusion.

Based on my experiences of living and traveling around the world, I know that religion is often an identity marker that determines people's access to jobs, resources, civil liberties and political power.

When I lived in Lebanon I saw firsthand how destructive an obsession with religious identity could be. Because of the sectarian nature of Lebanese politics, modern Lebanese history is rife with coups, invasions, civil wars and government shutdowns.

When I tell my Christian friends in America that some of the fiercest militias were (and are) Christian, most are shocked. It doesn't fit the us-versus-them mentality that evangelism fosters, in which we are always the innocent victims and they are always the aggressors.

This us-versus-them thinking is odd, given that Jesus was constantly breaking down walls between Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, men and women, sinners and saints. That's why we have the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Jews in Jesus' day thought of the Samaritans as the violent heretics, much the same way that Christians think of Muslims today. The idea that a Samaritan could be good was scandalous to first century Jews.

Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls?

Even the Apostle Paul insisted that it's faith in Jesus that matters, not converting to a new religion or a new socio-religious identity.

What if evangelicals today, instead of focusing on "evangelizing" and "converting" people, were to begin to think of Jesus not as starting a new religion, but as the central figure of a movement that transcends religious distinctions and identities?

Jesus the uniter of humanity, not Jesus the divider. How might that change the way we look at others?

This is more than just a semantic difference.

When I used to think of myself as a missionary, I was obsessed with converting Muslims (or anybody for that matter) to what I thought of as "Christianity." I had a set of doctrinal litmus tests that the potential convert had to pass before I would consider them "in" or one of "us."

Funny thing is, Jesus never said, "Go into the world and convert people to Christianity." What he said was, "Go and make disciples of all nations."

Encouraging anyone and everyone to become an apprentice of Jesus, without manipulation, is a more open, dynamic and relational way of helping people who want to become more like Jesus — regardless of their religious identity.

Just because I believe that evangelicals should stop evangelizing doesn't mean that they should to stop speaking of Jesus.

I speak of Jesus everywhere I go and with everyone I meet.

As founder and president of a company called International Initiatives, my work is aimed at building relationships among Christian leaders in the West and among Muslim leaders in the Middle East.

It may come as a surprise to many Christians that Muslims are generally open to studying the life of Jesus as a model for leadership because they revere him as a prophet.

But now that I'm no longer obsessed with converting people to Christianity, I've found that talking about Jesus is much easier and far more compelling.

I believe that doctrine is important, but it's not more important than following Jesus.

Jesus met people where they were. Instead of trying to figure out who's "in" and who's "out," why don't we simply invite people to follow Jesus — and let Jesus run his kingdom?

Inviting people to love, trust, and follow Jesus is something the world can live with. And since evangelicals like to say that it's not about religion, but rather a personal relationship with Jesus, perhaps we should practice what we preach.

Blessings - BishopM

Howdy Brother Bishop. It is so good to see that you still come here even if it is ages. I was so sitting here just a couple hours ago and thinking how great it would be have gone to church with my babe today. (Of course I called her during church to see if she had her phone off. It wasn't and she called me after to tell me how bad I was.)

I am one of the ones that does not try to convert and proselytize to others. I will be glad to say the pray when it is called for and even talk about my faith if anyone is curious but mostly like the article said I try to lead by example only. I have even been called not a true Christian because I do not seek converts but I just turn the other cheek.

I like this guy because he does go out there and builds foundations. Foundations are what makes it possible for any that want to learn more and see examples makes possible to do so. Of course there may be one or two that comes now and again but just like what Jesus showed us it that one or two at a time that builds a faith. It is like walking. If we just take a step now and again we may get where we are going eventually.

I felt as you were talking to me about the Trinity too. I would like to thank you for our discussion on that issue. My agony was lessened a lot because of that and the steps I have taken are truly bringing me further to the foundation of my babes church. (It has really helped that she hasn't nagged me to do so also)

[웃 910]

Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Abraham (PBUTT)

However, the fastest growing view in America is Atheism..

Edited July 24, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[luckytxn 2,265]

Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Abraham (PBUTT)

However, the fastest growing view in America is Atheism..

No it is Apathy.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

No it is Apathy.

It is worse than apathy. It is a sense that the world owes them a living, just because they are borne. Share and share alike. Sounds familiar: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

Sorry for derailing your thread, Brother Bishop.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[Darnell 8,479]

Nice to see Carl forming an opinion on something after actually being there for some time. Yay Carl ! Go Carl ! Experiential is best !

[BishopM 114]

Sorry for derailing your thread, Brother Bishop.

Never a need to apologize older brother SOG,

I would agree with you and LuckyTxn that today's biggest barrier to religion/spirituality is apathy...without a doubt a lot of people today simply can't see a need/application for either in their life.

To this, I can only say that I can empathize. For quite a while I thought that the teachings of Christ were far too antiquated to be applicable to my life. I had no doubt that there was a God, but I just didn't see how I could connect to Him through Christ or any of the other teachers/prophets of antiquity.

So, I did like a lot of people and looked for something more recent...and found the B'hai. The prophets of the B'hai faith were walking the earth only 100 years ago...so I thought I would follow them. In fact, I did quite a bit of research and found it to be a beautiful religion. In the end though, I had to reject it for Catholicism, which seemed to offer something a bit more concrete in its doctrine. I guess I'm funny that way, I had to reject Buddhism for the same reason: there just didn't seem to be any 'bottom' to it...

However, what I learned out of that walk with the prophets of the B'hai faith was that certain truths are immutable and timeless. Once I learned this and experienced it (outside of studies, but through personal experience) I was able to then realize that the words of Christ, though spoken over 2000 years ago, are equally as relevant today as they were in his own lifetime.

That is a hard lesson to 'teach' though, it has to be experienced, hence, apathy is difficult to overcome...if not impossible.

On a sidenote, and to tie out to Brother SOG's hijacking statement, my personal belief is that religion/spirituality is a "Lot of Work!". You get out of it what you put into it...and....(here is the punch line...hold on...hold on...)...you know how much some people are adverse to work! I just aint' gonna happen!

Its easier to be apathetic than to work, no matter what the discipline

VJSheesh...that is a lot of posting for me for one day...man, I even have a heart now! WTH did that happen?

Blessings,

BishopM

Edited July 24, 2011 by BishopM