Fraudulent Marriage vs. Legitimate Divorce (Part II)

[PurrSuede 0]

I will ask one final question, why didn’t the OP explain to his ex wife that she could file to remove conditions on her own behalf? Surely this would have ensured more completely that the divorce signaled the end of any further reminder of this situation.

Because, FYI, not that it is any of YOUR concern, but I explained things to her until I was blue in the face, repeatedly and relentlessly throughout the marriage and she never chose to listen to me before then anyway. And I saw no reason why she would start now...

And I -did- explain to her that she would have to file for her own removal of conditions, and I explained to her that the immigration attorney I consulted (on my nickle, regarding her situation) told me that her leaving the marriage prior to the "lifting of conditions" would likely present problems for her with the USCIS. (And it can and often does...)

She then proceeded to tell me that "Other Russian girls had told her this was no problem, you just pay attorney $3,000-$5,000 and they fix this for you". Just like the "other russian girls had told her to just insure car at his home address..." I remind you. Oh by the way, that's often how the Russian mind works, if you'll try to remember what Knowledge told you...

Anyway, my reaction was simply this: "Fine. Whatever. Go hire your own attorney. Go listen to all your own Russian friends, from your own websites, whatever, I'm sick of trying to explain to you how things in America work. Your problem, not mine. Have a nice life and thanks for the fish."

Mind you, Hibiscus, in the middle of the finality of a divorce, once does not sit down over dinner and have friendly conversations in a relaxed manner of engaging importance, ya know... sheesh...

I'm sick of talking about it. Wouldn't matter if I had stood on my head and whistled the Star-Spangled Banner out of my @ss, she wouldn't have listened to me since she hadn't listened to me for the last year-and-a-half of frickin' so-called marriage anyway... Why on god/dess' green earth I would even have expected her to start listening to me is totally beyond me, but hey all the same, I told her what the immigration attorney told me

And it's just amazing the distortions that YOU come up with... Whatever. I'm glad you speak "English" and have some grasp of what needs to be explained or doesn't. Perhaps you can call her and offer your services to her and explain it to her your own darn-self. Maybe she'll even pay you the $3-5K to have you solve her problems for her, what the hell do I know...

And frankly, after that piece of fiction you just created that is the last post of yours, I think I know just exactly what "grotesque distortion" truly means...

-- Dan

[Laveau 67]

If folks would read what you have wriiten ...ALL of it...before putting their 2 cents in, they would KNOW you have explained everything to the ex. pppfffttt...

[JenT 0]

I will ask one final question, why didn’t the OP explain to his ex wife that she could file to remove conditions on her own behalf? Surely this would have ensured more completely that the divorce signaled the end of any further reminder of this situation.

Because, FYI, not that it is any of YOUR concern, but I explained things to her until I was blue in the face, repeatedly and relentlessly throughout the marriage and she never chose to listen to me before then anyway. And I saw no reason why she would start now...

And I -did- explain to her that she would have to file for her own removal of conditions, and I explained to her that the immigration attorney I consulted (on my nickle, regarding her situation) told me that her leaving the marriage prior to the "lifting of conditions" would likely present problems for her with the USCIS. (And it can and often does...)

She then proceeded to tell me that "Other Russian girls had told her this was no problem, you just pay attorney $3,000-$5,000 and they fix this for you". Just like the "other russian girls had told her to just insure car at his home address..." I remind you. Oh by the way, that's often how the Russian mind works, if you'll try to remember what Knowledge told you...

Anyway, my reaction was simply this: "Fine. Whatever. Go hire your own attorney. Go listen to all your own Russian friends, from your own websites, whatever, I'm sick of trying to explain to you how things in America work. Your problem, not mine. Have a nice life and thanks for the fish."

Mind you, Hibiscus, in the middle of the finality of a divorce, once does not sit down over dinner and have friendly conversations in a relaxed manner of engaging importance, ya know... sheesh...

I'm sick of talking about it. Wouldn't matter if I had stood on my head and whistled the Star-Spangled Banner out of my @ss, she wouldn't have listened to me since she hadn't listened to me for the last year-and-a-half of frickin' so-called marriage anyway... Why on god/dess' green earth I would even have expected her to start listening to me is totally beyond me, but hey all the same, I told her what the immigration attorney told me

And it's just amazing the distortions that YOU come up with... Whatever. I'm glad you speak "English" and have some grasp of what needs to be explained or doesn't. Perhaps you can call her and offer your services to her and explain it to her your own darn-self. Maybe she'll even pay you the $3-5K to have you solve her problems for her, what the hell do I know...

And frankly, after that piece of fiction you just created that is the last post of yours, I think I know just exactly what "grotesque distortion" truly means...

-- Dan

Breathe Dan.

Next subject.

What will you do now to rebuild your life? Do you have vacation plans?

Jen

[diadromous mermaid 36]

It is a little wearing to have one’s words so grotesquely distorted.

Just when I think I've seen it all, then...I'm gobsmacked.

What would be fraudulent would be if someone made a conscious (premeditated) decision to gain access to another country by manipulating a citizen into marrying him or her.I realize that what I believe to be in good faith and what someone else believes to be in good faith isn't easily quantifiable. However, I would attest that good faith would be along the lines that both parties, to the best of their ability, are marrying because they believe the other to be their life partner.

I agree that fraud is perpetrated when one or more of the parties enters the marriage without the intent that the other is his/her life's partner. However, how can anyone know with any certainty that the intent was genuine? For example, presuming that most here are married, how can we measure our loved one's intent? Do we simply consider that their affection is demonstrative of that? And if so, then how then can one not ignore the fact that many people are demonstrative to their spouse, while engaging in infidelity outside the marriage. It comes as a big surprise to the spouse, when one day the offender walks out of the marriage with a lover already waiting on the sidelines. Further, I find it difficult to believe that any aliens, intent only on gaining permanent residency, make a statement to their significant other at the point they are entering the marriage to indicate that their intent is not genuine. What one is left with is an analysis of their acts, behaviour and possibly bits and pieces of evidence that start to create a picture. More often than not it is done ex post facto, as well.

I will ask one final question, why didn't the OP explain to his ex wife that she could file to remove conditions on her own behalf? Surely this would have ensured more completely that the divorce signaled the end of any further reminder of this situation.

He was generous enough to provide her with necessary documentation so why not make certain that she understood that they were obliged to notify USCIS of the divorce and that she should go ahead and file as a divorcee if she intended to remain in the US.

If PurrSuede gave his ex-wife the documentation, then it's clear there was some sort of discourse related to immigration requirements in the future. If not, what would his reason be for giving them to her? And, if they had not discussed procedure, either directly, or indirectly, why didn't his ex-wife question why he was giving her the documentation? Frankly, the generosity you afford to his spouse is astounding.

Was he obligated to do that? No of course not. However, let's just suppose that not only does he not make her aware of her options/obligations, which he is well aware of, but knowing her lack of knowledge of immigration laws he also encourages her to believe that she cannot file to remove conditions unless they have an ongoing marriage?

Anyone entering a relationship that involves migration has a responsibility to learn of his/her obligations. In fact, to offer ignorance as a defense is absurd. And if language barriers preclude her understanding, then she, just as with anything else, could simply ask. I tire of hearing how the alien, intent on leaving the marriage, who is savvy enough to know how to go about securing additional documentation, imposing upon banking institutions to change addresses and such, doesn't know how to read a website on the internet, or press 9 digits on a phone dial.

Her reaction would perhaps be to seek to provide fraudulent proof of the relationship, perhaps offering to ‘buy’ the proofs from the OP and when that failed, attempting to obtain say, motor insurance using his name and address.

That goes to character. Any alien that would conscion engaging in any unlawful means to gain false information with the express purpose of completing the immigration process is disingenuous, at the very least, and breaking the laws. Period.

Of course, I am not saying this is what happened, nor does such a scenario prove that his ex didn’t engage in this relationship purely to gain a green card all along. What it does do is illustrate that it is very easy to present the same facts in different lights and produce startlingly different conclusions.

Actually, by reading my statement above, it doesn't illustrate that presenting facts in different lights produces startling results at all. What it does show is the general character of the individual and the lengths he or she would go to to serve his/her selfish needs ~ even lengths that breaches law.

Mermaid, you are correct, I have not answered you because I do not know what to say. I don’t know what to say, because I don’t understand your questions. I am at a total loss to understand how you conclude from what I wrote that I automatically equate being a victim with a desire for revenge. How/why for example would a victim of famine exact revenge?

How can you not see or understand my question? And a victim of famine, is not at all comparable to this discussion. We were addressing immigration fraud, or on a more general basis, a victim at the hand of another individual that engages in deception.

This is what you said:

Oh, and Ms Mermaid, I am not a victim. Could I have been? Sure, I could have but I chose to get on with my life and let the past stay where it should be. I have no interest in festering on thoughts of revenge, it is a very destructive behaviour.

You said you chose not to be the victim, because you, instead, chose to leave that in the past as you had no interest in festering thoughts of revenge. Inherent in that remark is the suggestion that victims make a conscious choice not to get on with their lives and instead fuel negative thoughts focused on retribution. It's a large leap to make such a suggestion.

What I will say is, that in certain circumstances there is a predisposition by certain people to exact revenge and that by indulging in this, these people become victims of a very nasty and self-destructive behavior pattern. Personally, I have never had the tendency to go down the revenge route and cannot foresee a circumstance that would lead me there, but life can throw some strange and horrible situations at everyone so who really knows?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'certain' people. I'll assume for argument's sake that this indicates that they only constitute a percentage of all victims. Adding the term 'certain' as you did, changes the complexion of your original comment. Indeed, there are Shylocks in the world, just out to get their pound of flesh, and, as such, there are probably people that choose to seek retribution when wronged by another. However, that does not mean all do

Edited September 18, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[PurrSuede 0]

Breathe Dan.

Next subject.

What will you do now to rebuild your life? Do you have vacation plans?

Jen

I just might go to Russia... a friend suggested they could lock me in a room with 10 beautiful women and a bottle of vodka, and they ~might~ open the door the next day...

I don't know if he was totally serious, you know those wacky Russian's but hey...

Last time I was in Russia for New Year's I took a "banya" (sauna at the temperature of hell!) and then you go out and roll naked in the snow.

It was -40 below zero at the time. If you don't know if that was F or C, it doesn't really matter because -40 C ~is~ -40 F... perhaps the vodka gave me courage...

The say the best revenge you can have is to go on and enjoy your life...

My life itself is quite rebuilt. I've cleaned up the house, the garden is excellent. Thanks to the home equity loan I not only paid her off but most of the credit card debt from the marriage as well.

I got a big raise right before the divorce as well. Not to mention, somehow, my expenses are a lot less than they were... hmmmm go figure...

My health is now phenomenal as well. Speaking of which, it's time to go for a workout...

Da Svidanya.... Thanks Jen!

-- Dan

[JenT 0]

Breathe Dan.

Next subject.

What will you do now to rebuild your life? Do you have vacation plans?

Jen

I just might go to Russia... a friend suggested they could lock me in a room with 10 beautiful women and a bottle of vodka, and they ~might~ open the door the next day...

I don't know if he was totally serious, you know those wacky Russian's but hey...

Last time I was in Russia for New Year's I took a "banya" (sauna at the temperature of hell!) and then you go out and roll naked in the snow.

It was -40 below zero at the time. If you don't know if that was F or C, it doesn't really matter because -40 C ~is~ -40 F... perhaps the vodka gave me courage...

The say the best revenge you can have is to go on and enjoy your life...

My life itself is quite rebuilt. I've cleaned up the house, the garden is excellent. Thanks to the home equity loan I not only paid her off but most of the credit card debt from the marriage as well.

I got a big raise right before the divorce as well. Not to mention, somehow, my expenses are a lot less than they were... hmmmm go figure...

My health is now phenomenal as well. Speaking of which, it's time to go for a workout...

Da Svidanya.... Thanks Jen!

-- Dan

Excellent Dan!! Good for you! That 'roll in the snow' thing is popular in the upper peninsula of MI... the Finnish population up there made it part of the culture. I've never done it, but I think I'd need a similar amount of vodka to give it a try...

Issues with your health were alluded to... I'm glad you are feeling better. When you are feeling fit and well, your outlook on life is different. I had an accident this summer that I'm STILL recovering from. I've gained some weight because I've been less active and that's frustrating me.. I want to look 'perfect' on my wedding day ;-)

So what are you growing in your garden?

Jen

[PurrSuede 0]

I've gained some weight because I've been less active and that's frustrating me.. I want to look 'perfect' on my wedding day ;-)

So what are you growing in your garden?

Jen

I have no doubt David will indeed think you look absolutely ~perfect~ Jen...

and my garden is full of flowers...

-- Dan

[JenT 0]

I've gained some weight because I've been less active and that's frustrating me.. I want to look 'perfect' on my wedding day ;-)

So what are you growing in your garden?

Jen

I have no doubt David will indeed think you look absolutely ~perfect~ Jen...

and my garden is full of flowers...

-- Dan

Very kind of you, Dan.

I wish I had enough sun where I am to grow vegetables. I love fresh tomatoes. Too many trees. I have to satisfy myself with hosta and other shade loving varieties. But no grass in the backyard. Landscaped it all out. Hated dragging the mower back there.