Fraudulent Marriage vs. Legitimate Divorce (Part II)

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Dan, I will echo Meauxma's comments; I am sorry you are having to go through this after it appeared everything was cleanly tied up and sealed. It is bad enough to have a marriage end, but to discover details like this about your former partner, and to know that they have tried to 'use' you in this way must feel very betraying. From your earlier posts here and elsewhere I know you are a man of integrity and it is always doubly horrible to have to face a situation like this.

Two suggestions to run by your lawyer: 1) is it to your benefit to take out some sort of a newspaper ad under 'legal notices' stating that Nadya X aka Nadya Y is not associated with you in any way and that such attempts will be viewed as fraud; that your assets have been completely separated and you are not responsible for any of her expenses, liabilities or actions. The lawyer would know the correct wording - it might offer some sort of protection if something else comes to light; and 2) before you go to immigration, write down a factual summary without colour of the events that have occured for you to suspect immigration fraud,listing whatever evidence you might have on a separate page, then swearing to its veracity in front of your attorney or a notary public. I know that there is a lot of other nonsense that you have not shared with the list that has helped lead you to your suspicions and collected together may well form part of the necessary documentation. It should be concisely and clearly worded so that it doesn't sound like a 'sour grapes' spouse but a man truly concerned about protecting his own interests and who has been used by the other person in the commitment of marriage fraud. Good luck.

I assume you have changed your will.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Kathryn41

[Badgerbabe 0]

Dan

just some things I thought of is -

Did you have her as beneficiaries on anything ? 401k ? Life Insurance? Will IRA's ?

You need to get these changed.

Also

I presume you have the Bank letters re her trying to change your address - I'm sure you could use those as evidence as well as a closing statement you would have received from the Bank when you closed the account. It will show what date it was closed.

I would also get a free copy of your credit report to see what is on there - you are allowed one free one per year from Experion/Transunion or Equifax.

If your employment offers a payment on death then you would normally have her as the beneficiary so hopefully you have that changed too.

I work for a Bank so I can give you numbers for the credit reference bureaus if you need them just pm me. You can also sign up with a credit bureau to let you know about any enquires or amenedments are made to your credit bureau at any time. Does cost but it's piece of mind.

Your Bank will have a security person so see if you can get them to put a permant comment on your account to check ID and notify you immediatly if any changes or inquires are made on your account.

Sorry I can't be of more help but I wish you all the best and hope that things only get better for you in this difficult of times

[PurrSuede 0]

I am not an expert on what is and isn't allowed perforce adjustment regulations.

However, are we not talking here of the immigrant being on the 2 year conditional green card?

She is on the 2 year conditional green card. That is correct.

And my original posting in that forum (cited elsewhere in that thread) discussed many of your points.

I had no problem with her staying in the US and wasn't going to push things.

However as you slowly back out of the "emotional entanglement" as a relationship ends, sometimes you are able to examing things that happened. I would hope MOST people would examine the things that happened, and sure, as your other post said, sometimes there's a natural tendency to point the finger and assign blame elsewhere.

However sometimes when examining events under the "cooler" light, things become apparent that make you go hmmmmm....

And, each piece to the puzzle becomes another part of the entire picture.

The actual determination of "did this person commit Fraud?" is not ~mine~ to make. Frankly it belongs to the USCIS, and as I've indicated, I'm not about to go walking in there waving a redflag b*tchin' my head off about what a fraudulent slimeball my ex- was...

However, I also likely have a DUTY as pointed out by others, to at least REPORT to the USCIS the current status, that she left the marriage prior to PERMANENT AOS (removal of conditions).

I'm not walking in the door with "evidence" in hand to PROVE fraudulent intent. The proof of intent is the subject of many many a legal essay anyway... can intent EVER be proven, for that matter?

That being said, there are pieces of the puzzles, clues that don't add up.

For example, as the marriage was coming apart at the seams, telling her that it is a year before her removal of conditions and you'd like to take that year to make a serious effort to work at the marriage and see what happens, perhaps counseling or... and anyway, we could try to put things together for one year and then file for the Permanent conditions and then decide about the marriage...

And being told this wasn't needed, she'd heard from "other Russian women" (her coach/es) that all you need is lawyer and $3,000-$5,000 and you don't need to worry about this (leaving the marriage prior to permanent conditions)...

The fact she was being "coached" by someone as to what to "obtain"... as well as the Russian attitude that you can just buy your way around the law if need be... a sometimes common belief of the Russian mind I might add, from their societal upbringing...

The fact that she appears to be still using the married name and address even post-Divorce decree...

again, you take one piece of the puzzle at a time, one clue at a time and some things just don't add up.

Also you enter into the relationship ~feeling~ like you have found love and romance and caring and someone special.

As Mermaid said, it is one kind of "betrayal" to know your effort at a relationship FAILED and to own your own mistakes and failures...

It is a completely different betrayal to find out, or even begin to suspect that you were NEVER ~really~ in a relationship anyway, that you were simply being USED as a "tool" to a better life, nothing more, nothing less.

I can't describe that feeling, it's nothing so close to totally feeling emotionally raped... not that your love feelings went for naught, but that the person you THOUGHT you had loved was basically masquerading from the very beginning simply to gain access to a better life. In other words, you gave your love to a PURE ILLUSION presented by another to gain benefits from so doing.

Again, the ultimate decision of the intent (and the ramifications thereof) is not MINE to make.

I don't blame my ex- for WANTING to stay in America. What I am forced to question by her recent actions was what was her INTENT to begin with.

I can decide what her intent was from day one, but I'm not the one who adjusts her status or removes her conditions.

Also as her SPONSOR (remind you of the Affidavit of Support), and now that the haze and fog from the divorce proceedings are done, I also have a DUTY and obligation to inform the USCIS of the "results" of this relationship.

It also will help to protect ~me~ in case, for example, she ~is~ using that fraudulent insurance application as some sort of fraudulent "proof of bona fide relationship" in her future efforts to adjust her status to PERMANENT without conditions.

Therefore, I don't plan to walk into the USCIS dressed in neon lights flashing "fraud! fraud! fraud!", but I do plan to present to them the divorce decree and discuss with them in a reasonable and intelligent manner some of the various information I do have concerning the nature of relationship both pre- and post- divorce.

As a "sponsor" of my ex-wife, I do feel I at least have ~that~ obligation to do so. It, after all, remains solely THEIR determination to make in regards to her status or removal of conditions.

-- Dan

[PurrSuede 0]

Dan, I will echo Meauxma's comments; I am sorry you are having to go through this after it appeared everything was cleanly tied up and sealed. It is bad enough to have a marriage end, but to discover details like this about your former partner, and to know that they have tried to 'use' you in this way must feel very betraying. From your earlier posts here and elsewhere I know you are a man of integrity and it is always doubly horrible to have to face a situation like this.

Thank you, and yes, you go right to the very core of the situation. It's one thing to be angry and bitter because, hell, the marriage fell apart despite your best efforts. It's another thing to even begin to suspect that you could possibly have been USED from the very start and the love affair/marriage that you THOUGHT existed may have been purely illusory and just part of the masquerade to begin with.

Two suggestions to run by your lawyer: 1) is it to your benefit to take out some sort of a newspaper ad under 'legal notices' stating that Nadya X aka Nadya Y is not associated with you in any way and that such attempts will be viewed as fraud; that your assets have been completely separated and you are not responsible for any of her expenses, liabilities or actions. The lawyer would know the correct wording - it might offer some sort of protection if something else comes to light;

My lawyer has also informed me that my retainer has been exhausted, any monies were refunded and any further actions including consultation with her will be at a cost basis... Having just coughed up $12K to my ex- as part of the divorce settlement, I'm a bit light in the wallet at the moment, and would like to alleviate the severe bleeding of the green color... LOL

and 2) before you go to immigration, write down a factual summary without colour of the events that have occured for you to suspect immigration fraud,listing whatever evidence you might have on a separate page, then swearing to its veracity in front of your attorney or a notary public. I know that there is a lot of other nonsense that you have not shared with the list that has helped lead you to your suspicions and collected together may well form part of the necessary documentation. It should be concisely and clearly worded so that it doesn't sound like a 'sour grapes' spouse but a man truly concerned about protecting his own interests and who has been used by the other person in the commitment of marriage fraud.

Frankly, I just plan on providing them with the divorce decree (notification of ending of relationship) and some of the recent BS that's been going on, at our first meeting. And querying with them if there's anything else I need to do, in regard to my obligation to them. And, at that point, if the officer is interested in additional details of our relationship, or asks if I suspect there was fraudulent intent, then I will arrange the documentation I have in the manner you suggest.

As I said, my main interest is in NOT walking in there waving a huge Fraud! sign in big block letters. If they wish to pursue this avenue with me, then I will most certainly co-operate with their efforts.

Good luck.

I assume you have changed your will.

Thanks Kathryn... you assume correctly...

-- Dan

[PurrSuede 0]

some things I thought of is -

Did you have her as beneficiaries on anything ? 401k ? Life Insurance? Will IRA's ?

You need to get these changed.

Done!

Also I presume you have the Bank letters re her trying to change your address - I'm sure you could use those as evidence as well as a closing statement you would have received from the Bank when you closed the account. It will show what date it was closed.

Yup! Absolutely. As well as the fraudulent insurance documents, too.

I would also get a free copy of your credit report to see what is on there - you are allowed one free one per year from Experion/Transunion or Equifax.

Yes, but I'm waiting just a little bit longer, because the divorce was late July this year, and sometimes it takes a while for things to trickle down to your credit report, and you are only allowed ONE free copy per year from each CRA... so I want to give this maybe a month as some of her machinations have JUST come to light at the beginning of this month...

If your employment offers a payment on death then you would normally have her as the beneficiary so hopefully you have that changed too.

That, as well as the elimination of her health care benefits, dental benefits, any other benefits gained through my employment were removed within 24 hours of the ink being dry on the divorce decree.

I work for a Bank so I can give you numbers for the credit reference bureaus if you need them just pm me. You can also sign up with a credit bureau to let you know about any enquires or amenedments are made to your credit bureau at any time. Does cost but it's piece of mind.

Your Bank will have a security person so see if you can get them to put a permant comment on your account to check ID and notify you immediatly if any changes or inquires are made on your account.

Sorry I can't be of more help but I wish you all the best and hope that things only get better for you in this difficult of times

I think your suggestions are all excellent. As I said, I feel like I'm on top of the CRA aspect, and I do review any and all accounts I have open on a very regular basis. I do want to give it a month or two before I run the FREE credit reporting, as there is a lag in "reporting" time, it's not always instantaneous.

You offered some wonderful ideas though, BadgerBabe, and I hope perhaps they may be helpful to others who may be facing a similar situation. Thanks again!

-- Dan

[Peikko 1,575]

Correct me if I am wrong but, my understanding is that lifing of conditions is not only possible post divorce but is also more likely than not to occur?

That being said, this whole thing makes no sense to me whatever.

What you seem to be saying is that this person is capable of playing the 'I'm in love' role for how long? 2 years? Then decides they can't play the role for that little bit longer to make certain of their ultimate goal, the green card ?

Also, they are pretending they are still married to dupe USCIS (the reason behind pretending to live in the former marital home to obtain these fraudulant insurance docs?) when in all honesty the immigrant must know that the divorce will have been declared already.

And, beyond informing USCIS of the plain facts, why are you interested in what happens after that unless you really do wish her ill?

It's sounding more like the dish of revengs is best served cold by the minute.

My main point however is this:

I am quite sure there are instances where an immigrant does marry a citizen of another country purely to get residency/citizenship. However, to put it bluntly, if you were going to commit a fraud of this type, it would be simpler and more effective to 'pay' for this rather than go to such tortuous, emotionally fraught and far less effective lengths if your ultimate goal is simply the green card?

I am sure the majority of these cases we read of when the US citizen cries fraud after being in an emotional relationship are simply the normal cases of life not work out. (I am not saying that the US citizen is always to blame for this or any other marraige not working out. It can obviously work both ways.)

I am also fairly certain that USCIS take a similar view which is why lifting conditions is not only possilbe, but more likely than not post divorce.

Which leads me to my final point, expecting to get emotional closure from waving your ex off back to their 'home country' is like expecting emotional closure after any act of retribution, rather an empty excercise.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Correct me if I am wrong but, my understanding is that lifing of conditions is not only possible post divorce but is also more likely than not to occur?

Yes, an alien can remove conditions post divorce, if he/she can satisfy one or more of the eligibility requirements. And then, only if the bona fides of marriage presented are sufficient. What gives you the impression that removing conditions is likely to occur post divorce?

What you seem to be saying is that this person is capable of playing the 'I'm in love' role for how long? 2 years? Then decides they can't play the role for that little bit longer to make certain of their ultimate goal, the green card ?

Sometimes, even the "best laid plans go awry"...ergo, a hasty retreat before more is uncovered.

Also, they are pretending they are still married to dupe USCIS (the reason behind pretending to live in the former marital home to obtain these fraudulant insurance docs?) when in all honesty the immigrant must know that the divorce will have been declared already.

Of course the immigrant knows the divorce has occured, but without some proactive steps taken by the US citizen spouse, there's no reason that USCIS would automatically be aware of this.

And, beyond informing USCIS of the plain facts, why are you interested in what happens after that unless you really do wish her ill? It's sounding more like the dish of revengs is best served cold by the minute.

I disagree, wholeheartedly. If PurrSuede wished to exact 'revenge' there's a much more direct and diabolical way to do so.

I am quite sure there are instances where an immigrant does marry a citizen of another country purely to get residency/citizenship. However, to put it bluntly, if you were going to commit a fraud of this type, it would be simpler and more effective to 'pay' for this rather than go to such tortuous, emotionally fraught and far less effective lengths if your ultimate goal is simply the green card?

Paying for a green card leaves a paper trail that would be incontrovertible and render an alien, if uncovered, defenseless. However, to deceive and masquerade as many do, and especially if they are wiley and cunning, there's often little decisive and concrete evidence left behind at the scene of the crime. If you, for example, were in such an alien's shoes, would you not choose the path of least resistance, and one where your movements were not so transparent? Furthermore, it's only emotionally torturous for the victim, and not at all for the perpetrator

I am sure the majority of these cases we read of when the US citizen cries fraud after being in an emotional relationship are simply the normal cases of life not work out. (I am not saying that the US citizen is always to blame for this or any other marraige not working out. It can obviously work both ways.)

Can you cite statistics to support that theory?

I am also fairly certain that USCIS take a similar view which is why lifting conditions is not only possilbe, but more likely than not post divorce.

Can you cite sources to support this theory?

Which leads me to my final point, expecting to get emotional closure from waving your ex off back to their 'home country' is like expecting emotional closure after any act of retribution, rather an empty excercise.

It strikes me as odd that you would have such an impression. I don't see in this thread where anyone is expecting to gain emotional closure from 'waving' his/her ex back to her home country. From what I've read, PurrSuede feels an obligation to perform to the expectations USCIS has of him, the sponsor. He has been very clear that he will do what is asked of him, and leave the final determination up to the powers that be. Emotional closure can't be gained by turning a less-than-upright alien into the authorities, anyway. That can only be achieved by time and effort on the part of the victim.

[PurrSuede 0]

That being said, this whole thing makes no sense to me whatever.

And, beyond informing USCIS of the plain facts, why are you interested in what happens after that unless you really do wish her ill?

If it made any sense to me, then at least it would to SOMEONE...

Frankly I'm not interested in what happens after that. I even said that's between her and the USCIS.

Except there's one other thing, from a very personal side.

What if I decide to try this again? Wouldn't it be better for me to inform and co-operate with the USCIS with KNOWN FACTS regarding ~this~ situation, in case I might -ever- want to try this again??

And I feel that as a minimum I certainly have the obligation to AT LEAST inform the USCIS that she abandoned the marriage prior to Permanent Conditions, and offer to provide to them any other additional information that they MAY seek from me. I do not feel that I should just "leave the ball in her court" and let her provide whatever she wants (even if it's fraudulent) in order to secure her lifting of conditions...

Do you disagree with that assessment, P_H?

It's sounding more like the dish of revengs is best served cold by the minute.

Let it sound however you'd care to hear it. If you read my original post, I had NO interest in even exploring this aspect. And then she began to attempt at least two POSSIBLE fraudulent acts. And what if, just suppose what if, the USCIS determines that these could be "fraudulent intent"? If not of the marriage itself, but perhaps a fraudulent attempt to manufacture "bona fides" from the relationship? Where does that leave me in their eyes, if I did not report these? I really don't care to find out. Ethically or legally.

And as I said, when you begin to emotionally detach from the person, sometimes you see things in the "light of day"... and other people sometimes come forward and give you additional information that had you known originally... well...

My main point however is this:

I am quite sure there are instances where an immigrant does marry a citizen of another country purely to get residency/citizenship. However, to put it bluntly, if you were going to commit a fraud of this type, it would be simpler and more effective to 'pay' for this rather than go to such tortuous, emotionally fraught and far less effective lengths if your ultimate goal is simply the green card?

I am sure the majority of these cases we read of when the US citizen cries fraud after being in an emotional relationship are simply the normal cases of life not work out. (I am not saying that the US citizen is always to blame for this or any other marraige not working out. It can obviously work both ways.)

I am also fairly certain that USCIS take a similar view which is why lifting conditions is not only possilbe, but more likely than not post divorce.

Which leads me to my final point, expecting to get emotional closure from waving your ex off back to their 'home country' is like expecting emotional closure after any act of retribution, rather an empty excercise.

I have my emotional closure, and it's not from a planned meeting with the USCIS. And it's also possible her recent actions were simply only paperwork mistakes... or perhaps just HER attempt at an "act of retribution".

As I said, I have no intention of walking into the USCIS waving a "Fraud!" banner, but I plan to co-operate fully and provide any information that they would like me to provide.

If you feel that's a "vengeful" act, so be it. I feel it is simply my obligation to provide the USCIS with the ultimate results of the K-1 that I was required to get their approval for, and I also believe it is my LEGAL obligation to report any unexpected change in that process to them or for that matter, any other aspect they may not be aware of, as well.

I sincerely doubt that my ex- has bothered to do this.

I also believe it is my obligation to inform them of any POSSIBLE attempt to manufacture or forge documents needed to prove "bona fides" by my ex, especially when these would involve my name, my address, my bank account or anything else of mine. Especially when these are being created by her actions AFTER THE FACT of the divorce.

As I said, it is not my decision to make whether these constitute any fraudulent intent or not... it is the USCIS', and solely theirs.

If nothing else, by reporting these things, it would likely at least clear me of any possible suspicion or suspected involvement in participating in a possible attempt to manufacture fraudulent documents that could be used for immigration purposes.

I can assure you in any Fraud Investigation by the USCIS, whether in regard to the marriage itself, or to falsification of "bona fides" post-divorce, I would MUCH prefer to be considered as coming forward, helpful and co-operative in the eyes of the USCIS.

If you read the criminal penalties that even "falsification of documents" carries, at the bottom of any USCIS form, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

-- Dan

[Peikko 1,575]

No statistics, I just have this bizarre idea that USCIS works on the premiss that most of the cases they see are legitimate, the fraud cases are the exception not the rule.

It's very easy to get into this 'consiperacy theory' about life and it does make many people feel better about themselves.

Life's reality is generally less exciting and more a case of people bumbling along, particularly when it comes to relationships.

As for the 'it's easier to pretend to be in love' thing than asking someone to go along with a fraud upfront. Do you honestly believe that? Are you kidding me? I must be missing something here but that kind of devious behavior strikes me as not only pathelogical but also stupid.

Yes, if you are particularly stupid, you might leave some kind of paper evidence if you went the rather easier 'pay for a card' route but if you are as desperate as you seem to think these people are, well a smaller price to pay than trying to pretend for years that you are in love with someone who, not only they aren't in love with but actually despise...because let's face it, to go through with this kind of deception with someone you actually like even a little bit...it's so complicated it's making my head spin just trying to work it out.

Oh and just think you are this cold, calculating, clever person with this great plan but oh look, if you were a little bit smarter, you would insist your bogus 'love' goes the CR1 route. That way, you can spend less time actually living with the bogus husband and just proceed from home to greeen card and pass go as well.

I guess I can't decide which annoys me most, the idea that people outside the US are so desperate to get to the US that they will do anything to make that 'dream' come true, or the fact that people are so willing to believe the least likely scenario over the more prosaic realities of life.

Do I believe you are just trying to do the right thing? Well, the first post in this thread states:

"But aside from that, I am interested in any feedback, especially from those who truly DID suspect fraudulent intent, and how they went about reporting that to the USCIS and what the ultimate result of their report was..."

Why do you care? What does it matter if your only intention is to 'keep yourself right' in the eyes of USCIS?

The simplest conclusion that I can come to is that it matters because you want to know how likely it is that your ex will get deported if you take action, and if you are lucky someone might post a story that is similar to yours and they post some cast iron way of making this happen.

Of course, I could be wrong and you just want to know how it turned out because you are worried that you might somehow be in trouble with USCIS after providing them with all the necessary information and that these people will ensure that you don't make the same mistakes. After all, this is your duty and you don't want to end up in jail having perjured yourself by mistake.

I guess that's what annoys me most is that you are trying so hard to make me believe that everything you are doing is not for malicious reasons but just 'doing your duty' when the fact is, if this was the case, I wouldn't know anything about you or your ex wife.

The reality is, If this person just wanted to get facts and do 'the right thing' I wouldn't know any of the details of this case and he wouldn't try so hard to make me believe his side of the story.

It may well be that his ex isn't a particularly nice person, but why torture himself with thoughts that she is so evil/pathological/mixed up/crazy/cruel she would go through this sham of a marriage just to get a green card. By doing so, he makes himself a victim rather than a simple divorcee. What good is that doing to either himself, or anyone else? Does anyone feel better in the knowledge that a marriage was fraudulant for whatever reason? I can't imagine what purpose this serves, please enlighted me.

[PurrSuede 0]

No statistics, I just have this bizarre idea that USCIS works on the premiss that most of the cases they see are legitimate, the fraud cases are the exception not the rule.

To quote the attorney I consulted prior to my Divorce: "those guys over there in the Regional office basically think any non-USC is guilty until proven innocent...."

I'd also add that he told me that he was a practicing staff attorney for the USCIS for 20 years before starting his own practice, so I would assume he knows what he's talking about...

He also said that Officer Such-and-Such was affectionately known as "the Grand Inquisitor"...

So how's that for a "bizarre" idea???

It's very easy to get into this 'consiperacy theory' about life and it does make many people feel better about themselves.

Life's reality is generally less exciting and more a case of people bumbling along, particularly when it comes to relationships.

As for the 'it's easier to pretend to be in love' thing than asking someone to go along with a fraud upfront. Do you honestly believe that? Are you kidding me? I must be missing something here but that kind of devious behavior strikes me as not only pathelogical but also stupid.

Well good, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And I think the courts (and jails) are full of people who's devious behavior is pathological, if not downright stupid...

Yes, if you are particularly stupid, you might leave some kind of paper evidence if you went the rather easier 'pay for a card' route but if you are as desperate as you seem to think these people are, well a smaller price to pay than trying to pretend for years that you are in love with someone who, not only they aren't in love with but actually despise...because let's face it, to go through with this kind of deception with someone you actually like even a little bit...it's so complicated it's making my head spin just trying to work it out.

If you want your head to spin, try having it happen to you...

I guess I can't decide which annoys me most, the idea that people outside the US are so desperate to get to the US that they will do anything to make that 'dream' come true, or the fact that people are so willing to believe the least likely scenario over the more prosaic realities of life.

I will again quote my immigration attorney who told me to present the fact at the divorce hearings that "the BENEFIT of coming to America is not only one that some people would pay $25-$50,000 dollars ILLEGALLY to obtain, but he knows of cases where someone literally would KILL for the chance to obtain this." And that the "asset" of her arrival in America that I provided for her, should be weighed in the balance along with any other "tangible" assets from the marriage she might cover.

And again, this coming from an immigration attorney with over 20 years of case experience.

Be annoyed all you wish, I can arrange a consultation with this attorney if you so desire, and have the money to pay for it, as well

Do I believe you are just trying to do the right thing? Well, the first post in this thread states:

"But aside from that, I am interested in any feedback, especially from those who truly DID suspect fraudulent intent, and how they went about reporting that to the USCIS and what the ultimate result of their report was..."

Why do you care? What does it matter if your only intention is to 'keep yourself right' in the eyes of USCIS?

Actually the first post in the entire thread is HERE: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23285

and this was Part Deux... and this part was ONLY opened upon my discovery of some paperwork machinations or mistakes on the part of my ex-

I have repeatedly said I don't wish to walk in there looking like a raving maniac frothin' at the mouth about what a sleezeball my ex- was.

The simplest conclusion that I can come to is that it matters because you want to know how likely it is that your ex will get deported if you take action, and if you are lucky someone might post a story that is similar to yours and they post some cast iron way of making this happen.

Of course, I could be wrong and you just want to know how it turned out because you are worried that you might somehow be in trouble with USCIS after providing them with all the necessary information and that these people will ensure that you don't make the same mistakes. After all, this is your duty and you don't want to end up in jail having perjured yourself by mistake.

I guess that's what annoys me most is that you are trying so hard to make me believe that everything you are doing is not for malicious reasons but just 'doing your duty' when the fact is, if this was the case, I wouldn't know anything about you or your ex wife.

The reality is, If this person just wanted to get facts and do 'the right thing' I wouldn't know any of the details of this case and he wouldn't try so hard to make me believe his side of the story.

Frankly, P_H, I don't care if you believe me or not.

In June after my ex- "manufactured" a Domestic Disturbance, the police arrived at my house.

Their investigation concluded that there had been NO Domestic Violence, and they separated us for the evening. She disappeared (with my car) for over 48 hours. When she returned we began discussing divorce. It was obvious to me someone was COACHING her in what she needed to obtain in order to "lift conditions/change status".

During the divorce discussion, she said to me point blank "you know, some Russian girls keep their car insurance at their former residence, and pay a small amount of extra money for this, and then they use this information when they file with INS..."

Basically in her just SUGGESTING that scenario to me, she committed Immigration Fraud. Again, no doubt someone had been coaching her in this.

I documented that conversation by email with a friend of mine, but the subject was never brought up again.

Perhaps she realized that she wasn't going to get a DV charge on me (no matter WHAT she tried to pull) and perhaps she was coached by her unknown benefactor into just trying a different tact since that didn't work.

Mind you, I didn't even give that statement much creedence, until LO AND BEHOLD, over ONE MONTH after the divorce papers are final, she files for CAR INSURANCE using her MARRIED name at her former PLACE OF RESIDENCE... just like she had "suggested".

Now, I may be a blithering idiot, I am not a lawyer, nor do I work for the USCIS, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night either, but somehow to me that REEKS of contrived and pre-planned fraudulent activity, expressly when she discussed this scenario exactly SIX weeks before the divorce was even final...

Either that, or as you said, she's just plain stupid, and careless, but I've also seen her "play" the "Oh I am poor Russian girl who just doesn't understand these things" as well....

It may well be that his ex isn't a particularly nice person, but why torture himself with thoughts that she is so evil/pathological/mixed up/crazy/cruel she would go through this sham of a marriage just to get a green card. By doing so, he makes himself a victim rather than a simple divorcee. What good is that doing to either himself, or anyone else? Does anyone feel better in the knowledge that a marriage was fraudulant for whatever reason? I can't imagine what purpose this serves, please enlighted me.

Because it means no matter WHAT effort I put into the success of "marriage" it was DOOMED to failure no matter what. It means I could have stood on my head and whistled Dixie out my ..... and it wouldn't have mattered for squat...

"Torture" myself? God forbid this should happen to you that for one reason or another, someone you LOVED and CARED FOR, just waltzed off into the sunset, not even answering your query with so much as a "how-do-you-do?".

P_H, NOTHING I can do to myself, can compare to the wringer that this woman put me through.

Here's the bottom line of what I believe... I believe she wanted "better life" and was willing to take a chance on marriage to get it. To me there's a real fine line between "did she love me" and "she wanted a better life and knew she could get one through marriage".

IF she went into the marriage with the intention, I try this to see how it works out, because I know I can stay in America if it does NOT, that is fraud.

And you know, as I told you, I never thought I'd be sitting here explaining all this stuff, I thought I was over and done with this as of the LAST posting (in the previous thread cited elsewhere) but apparently she wasn't done monkeying with financial paperwork...

You are right.. she's either very very stupid and naive... just plain malicious, or a down right Machiavellian manipulator on a grand scale...

Why does it matter to me? This is a person I -loved- and to find out, or even to SUSPECT that the person you loved could possibly NEVER have loved you and just put together a scenario for their own interests, this is nothing less than psychic and emotional rape, I can assure you... it is a violation to the level of your soul, that I HOPE to God/dess you will ~never~ experience as long as you live.

-- Dan

[zauberblume 0]

I guess I can't decide which annoys me most, the idea that people outside the US are so desperate to get to the US that they will do anything to make that 'dream' come true, or the fact that people are so willing to believe the least likely scenario over the more prosaic realities of life.

Take a trip outside of the Western world.

You'll see how many people would like the opportunity to come to the United States. Some of those people would go to extremes in order to come to the United States. Why do you think they wouldn't? Have you ever traveled to a poor country?

Russia isn't terrible, but some parts of the country are. I would argue that the U.S. is similar. There are numerous poor areas, which would rival many third world countries, but what the U.S. has is an allure. Some foreigners think it's great from afar, when, in reality, it is much less so.

It is plausible that Dan's ex-wife entered into the marriage fraudulently in order to come to the United States.

Regardless of her initial intentions, what she is doing, post-divorce, is wrong and requires action on Dan's part. What can't you understand that? There is no reason for his ex-wife to file car insurance using a false name and at a false address nor is it right for his ex-wife to request account information on a closed account. Do you understand what he is saying here?

The better question to ask is: Why is his ex-wife filing or trying to obtain false information? Well, it's possible that she simply wants to stay in the U.S. after having already lived here. Maybe she had good intentions when the marriage started. Nevertheless, her actions, currently, are wrong and could prove more harmful to her than she realizes.

You also need to be less annoyed by problems that don't really involve you. If you're annoyed, think about how Dan feels when he's the one who is actually dealing with it.

Get over yourself, please.

Edited September 17, 2006 by zauberblume

[Sweetgirl 0]

You cant stop her using her married name.... it became hers to use the day you married her and its her choice to continue using it or not.....

Kezzie

I'm sorry, but I believe you are wrong, as the divorce decree FORMALLY and legally RESTORED her name to her maiden name.. therefore it is no longer her "choice" to keep using mine, as this is a binding item of the final decree, as are all the other items of the final decree...

-- Dan

Hi Dan,

You are wrong. She can use her married name till the rest of her life until she choose not to use it.

Nothing is gonna make to Change her married name on the maiden name until she is gonna decide to do so.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

I disagree on the affidavit. Right now the insurance statement you have is simply inanimate evidence. An affidavit is testimony of a potential witness, should the need arise.

I see the difference you are referring to... thank you. I doubt that the agent would sign an affadavit , but...

I talked some things over with a friend of mine, and I probably will make an INFOPass appointment to review this entire matter in the offices of the USCIS next week...

Thank you for your thoughts and viewpoints, Diaddie and thanks to everyone else as well...

-- Dan

You cant stop her using her married name.... it became hers to use the day you married her and its her choice to continue using it or not.....

Kezzie

I'm sorry, but I believe you are wrong, as the divorce decree FORMALLY and legally RESTORED her name to her maiden name.. therefore it is no longer her "choice" to keep using mine, as this is a binding item of the final decree, as are all the other items of the final decree...

-- Dan

Hi Dan,

You are wrong. She can use her married name till the rest of her life until she choose not to use it.

Nothing is gonna make to Change her married name on the maiden name until she is gonna decide to do so.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

[JenT 0]

I'm sorry, but I believe you are wrong, as the divorce decree FORMALLY and legally RESTORED her name to her maiden name.. therefore it is no longer her "choice" to keep using mine, as this is a binding item of the final decree, as are all the other items of the final decree...

-- Dan

Hi Dan,

You are wrong. She can use her married name till the rest of her life until she choose not to use it.

Nothing is gonna make to Change her married name on the maiden name until she is gonna decide to do so.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

Sweetgirl,

Read Dan's post again and pay attention to what I highlighted in red. Stop bringing this up. Her name WAS legally changed back to her maiden name on the divorce decree and that is the name she is legally bound to use.

Jen

[PurrSuede 0]

Hi Dan,

You are wrong. She can use her married name till the rest of her life until she choose not to use it.

Nothing is gonna make to Change her married name on the maiden name until she is gonna decide to do so.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

She "chose" not to use it when she SIGNED a petition for Divorce that was submitted to the court that asked the court to restore her name to her MAIDEN name. (Along with other provisions of the Divorce). No one forced her to do this, this was HER CHOICE to ask the court to do so. If she did not want to restore her name, she should not have asked the court to do so. But sorry, she did. Her ~choice~ to make. And she made it, and affirmed it with her signature.

The court agreed with her petition to restore her name to her maiden name. And ordered it so, and ordered that and all the other provisions of the Decree to be legally binding on both parties.

She "decided" to change her married name to her maiden name when she signed the Divorce petition, it was affirmed by the court, and she also signed off on the court-approved decree that indicated her understanding that she was bound by all provisions of the decree INCLUDING HER DECISION TO CHANGE HER NAME.

THE COURT HAVING REVIEWED THE PLEADINGS HEREBY FINDS:

<snip>

8) Respondent wishes to revert to her former name: Nadezhda K. R.........

THE COURT THEREFORE ORDERS, ADJUDGES AND DECREES:

<snip>

E. NAME CHANGE: Respondent is restored to her former name: NADEZHDA K. R........

Fine, Sweetgirl... YOU go explain to the judge and the court that this LEGALLY ENDORSED AND ENFORCEABLE part of the Divorce Decree is NOT binding and can be interpreted at will by the Respondent.

When you come back and tell me that yes, she can do as she pleases, then I will petition the court that I can also likewise violate the terms of the Marital Settlement Agreement as well, since obviously if the FINAL DECREE of the COURT can be interpreted ~at will~ by my ex-wife, I should be allowed the same privileges...

Sweetgirl,

Read Dan's post again and pay attention to what I highlighted in red. Stop bringing this up. Her name WAS legally changed back to her maiden name on the divorce decree and that is the name she is legally bound to use.

Jen

Thanks Jen, at least SOMEONE gets this.

She hijacks my financial statements, commits insurance fraud (much less possible immigration paperwork fraud) and we're still arguing if she can use a name or not...regardless of the court order...

sheesh..

-- Dan

[diadromous mermaid 36]

No statistics, I just have this bizarre idea that USCIS works on the premiss that most of the cases they see are legitimate, the fraud cases are the exception not the rule.

As has been already stated, in actual fact, the premise would more accurately be "prove to us that you are legitimate, otherwise we'll consider you're not"

It's very easy to get into this 'consiperacy theory' about life and it does make many people feel better about themselves.

Prey tell. Just exactly how 'better' does one feel after having been duped, ridiculed and violated? Learing that not only one's love, but one's marriage has been false and a hoax from inception is something I would not wish on an anyone.

As for the 'it's easier to pretend to be in love' thing than asking someone to go along with a fraud upfront. Do you honestly believe that? Are you kidding me? Yes, if you are particularly stupid, you might leave some kind of paper evidence if you went the rather easier 'pay for a card' route but if you are as desperate as you seem to think these people are, well a smaller price to pay than trying to pretend for years that you are in love with someone who, not only they aren't in love with but actually despise...because let's face it, to go through with this kind of deception with someone you actually like even a little bit...it's so complicated it's making my head spin just trying to work it out.

I'm not stupid, thank you, although it's clear to me that you haven't thought this through, or perhaps are not capable of thinking it through, anyway.

Logic would suggest that unless an alien, intent on perpetrating fraud against the Immigration Service, would need to know that his plan would not go awry. It's human nature for people to have a change of heart, especially when there's little in it for them. Paying someone for the privilege of acquiring a green card doesn't laways materialise in the prized GC. It does happen you know? Can you imagine a better method of ensuring that an accomplice not foil the illicit plan than to make sure they are not even aware that a plan has been hatched? Wouldn't that ensure that nothing could/would go awry, if the 'tool'/victim/spouse were none the wiser?

Oh and just think you are this cold, calculating, clever person with this great plan but oh look, if you were a little bit smarter, you would insist your bogus 'love' goes the CR1 route. That way, you can spend less time actually living with the bogus husband and just proceed from home to greeen card and pass go as well.

Hmm. Once again a trip into human pysche is necessary. What, wait in a foreign country for months when there's an unwitting victim just ready to make the trip possible tomorrow??

Why do you care? What does it matter if your only intention is to 'keep yourself right' in the eyes of USCIS? The simplest conclusion that I can come to is that it matters because you want to know how likely it is that your ex will get deported if you take action, and if you are lucky someone might post a story that is similar to yours and they post some cast iron way of making this happen.

When one discovers evidence to suggest the basest act of violation, as in unilateral marriage-fraud, the first instinct is to be incredulous. This can't be happening to me, to us. After a while the pieces start to fall into place, and then you wonder if anyone will believe you. After all, besides the tangible evidence, there are a lot of odd and suspicious acts that begin to complete the puzzle. But you went through much of this alone. There weren't any USCIS AOs there to witness it. While in one's heart you know that you've been victimised, it's natural to wonder if what you feel/sense/know will be enough to present to USCIS, I believe if PurrSuede has a nagging suspicion, he's in a better place than any of us to determine what actually went on. Sometimes one simply has to go on one's instinct. I believe PurrSuede was simply enquiring of what type of evidence has been presented. He has a right to ask that. No, he has a duty to himself to listen to his instinct and do what he senses is right!

It may well be that his ex isn't a particularly nice person, but why torture himself with thoughts that she is so evil/pathological/mixed up/crazy/cruel she would go through this sham of a marriage just to get a green card. By doing so, he makes himself a victim rather than a simple divorcee. What good is that doing to either himself, or anyone else? Does anyone feel better in the knowledge that a marriage was fraudulant for whatever reason? I can't imagine what purpose this serves, please enlighted me.

Well, simply put, if his ex-wife did enter the marriage for immigration benefit, then he IS a victim. What would you rather he do, just stick his head in the sand and pretend it never happened?

Edited September 17, 2006 by diadromous mermaid