I need some opinions

[rlogan 2,036]

They don't.

Some leave for a man with a conscience.

[Ready to do it 101]

Whoa.... after spending so many years with my fiance in Colombia, I know all about machistas. Everyone should take a step back though... this drunken behavior, accusations of cheating... on both parts and definite cheating on his part, attitude of I've only had 2 beers I can do this, etc is the norm for those from a machista society. It doesn't make him a bad person it just makes him unlike anything that is accepted in American society. It's his nature, it's the way he is, it's the way 90% of the men from cities in a Machista country/city are. TBone even said his own wife could never marry an Ecuadorian because they are all machistas, same goes with my fiance as all the men in her Colombian city are machista. That being said, she knew all of this going in. In fact, there are many many girls in Colombia and Ecuador that absolutely LOVE this kind of male. They truly want the dominating, decision making, cheating, drunken male. I'm dead serious. It is a way of life for many. Now, does an American woman deserve what is happening and is this acceptable in the American culture? Absolutely not. But she did know these things before she married. In fact, all of those things that we all say she doesn't deserve, may actually be the things she loves. I'm not stating that this is the case. However, she has come out and said how she just can't divorce, etc. When she told him and he cried and asked for 4 months etc. this is so Colombia from what I have seen (and in his case, Ecuador). Truth be told, her heart melted when he cried. She couldn't end it. Why? Perhaps the things that we all think are all so wrong are all the things that she really loves about him. The difference between her and a gal from Ecuador is she knows the consequences of all of these bad things... cheating, jealousy, drunk driving, etc. But in Ecuador that's the norm. He probably doesn't even understand what he has done wrong. He's just being himself, and she loved him for that.

It's a rough road ahead, and if you truly love all these things about him you might consider the two of you moving to Ecuador. One thing is certain, if you are going to stay married in the US, you have a lot of teaching to do. The machista way can continue, but he needs to learn that if he doesn't respect the laws the consequences can be dire.

I will end by saying this... of all the pain he has caused or pain thrown onto him... I.e. getting thrown in jail etc. The one thing that is killing him the most is the fact that you have separated from him. That is torture for him. If you are going to keep him here (I.e. not divorce) you have to be with him. He can't learn otherwise.

Some folks here -- although their advice is not wrong -- are responding more intricately than the case probably requires. In simplest terms, the husband is an Ecuadorian macho whose machista behavior will never change, and this is unacceptable treatment. Period.

[Maliajannah 0]

I suggest that we withhold further additions to this thread until we hear from the OP with an update. The horse has been beaten thoroughly in the meantime.

There is no update, everything is the same. Spending so much time apart means that any progress or change is postponed. I hear the truth in everyone's comments but I haven't acted on any of it.

In fact, there are many many girls in Colombia and Ecuador that absolutely LOVE this kind of male. They truly want the dominating, decision making, cheating, drunken male. I'm dead serious. It is a way of life for many. Now, does an American woman deserve what is happening and is this acceptable in the American culture? Absolutely not. But she did know these things before she married. In fact, all of those things that we all say she doesn't deserve, may actually be the things she loves.

Maybe you're right, maybe I just love abusive machista men... I dated a man from Guatemala for 2 years before I met Patricio but I ended it because he was an abusive alcoholic. At that time I said I would never do it again, but I didn't understand the systemic machismo in Spanish speaking cultures...

I don't love abusive men, I know I don't, what I love is passion, fire, close-nit families, and Latin dancing... I guess I could give those things up for a normal non-abusive relationship with a white American man. We could live in suburbia, go to sleep before 9pm, have sex once a month, and get together with our family only on Christmas. Yeah, that sounds perfect.

Sorry guys, obviously I'm not feeling myself these days...

The one thing that is killing him the most is the fact that you have separated from him. That is torture for him. If you are going to keep him here (I.e. not divorce) you have to be with him. He can't learn otherwise.

This is absolutely true. True true true.

[TBoneTX 45,284]

I hear the truth in everyone's comments but I haven't acted on any of it.

When your pain becomes strong enough, you'll act, si man.

I don't love abusive men, I know I don't, what I love is passion, fire, close-nit families, and Latin dancing... I guess I could give those things up for a normal non-abusive relationship with a white American man. We could live in suburbia, go to sleep before 9pm, have sex once a month, and get together with our family only on Christmas. Yeah, that sounds perfect.

One thing that I learned the hard way is that people are like a blue-plate special: if you want the chicken, it comes with the broccoli -- no exceptions. If you want the roast beef, it comes with the peas -- no exceptions. People are a mixture of good and bad qualities, and you have to be able to accept all of them. Some, we might be able to change, such as weaning someone from an addiction to French folk music. Others, no -- we can't expect to cure an alcoholic, tame an abuser, or transform a macho. Someone can have all of the most positive qualities that you've ever dreamed of, but if he has even one quality or character flaw that would cause you to compromise your core beliefs or your safety, then that person is wrong for you, sigh man.

I had to repeat this last point to myself, even aloud, many times before I internalized it... but once I did, I never looked back, and I felt worlds better about entering relationships and evaluating potential mates.

Sorry guys, obviously I'm not feeling myself these days...

Completely understandable, si man. When you're ready to act, you will.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

One thing that I learned the hard way is that people are like a blue-plate special: if you want the chicken, it comes with the broccoli -- no exceptions. If you want the roast beef, it comes with the peas -- no exceptions. People are a mixture of good and bad qualities, and you have to be able to accept all of them. Some, we might be able to change, such as weaning someone from an addiction to French folk music. Others, no -- we can't expect to cure an alcoholic, tame an abuser, or transform a macho. Someone can have all of the most positive qualities that you've ever dreamed of, but if he has even one quality or character flaw that would cause you to compromise your core beliefs or your safety, then that person is wrong for you, sigh man.

This is some of the most insightful advice I've ever read on VJ, and it applies to everyone in every relationship. People are what they are. If they change then it will be on their own terms and in their own time. If you can't accept them just the way they are then look for someone else.

Brilliant!

[TBoneTX 45,284]

Brilliant!

(Blush) Thank you, si man... but where's my +1?

[milimelo 4,477]

Don't think OP took anyone's advice reading the latest thread about going to court with him (his DUI): http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/325040-dui-court-date-on-friday/

[Golden Gate 530]

Plus 1 for the French Folk Music.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I haven't checked on this thread for a while due to the fact I was sure the OP would have gotten the message. But I guess some people have to learn things the hard way. A wise T-shirt once said "Experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes first and the lesson comes afterwards...."

[Fandango 1,439]

This is absolutely true. True true true.

No, it absolutely isn't true. It's false. And you're his wife, not his teacher.

[Ready to do it 101]

Uhmmm... Anita Cocktail, no disrespect intended, but are you from Ecuador? Are you from a South American country where 90%+ of the men are machista and the majority of the women there love the machista man? If you are not, then you cannot say this is false as it is the way a machista man is. Kindly refrain from stating something is false when you do not have the background to make such a statement.

No, it absolutely isn't true. It's false. And you're his wife, not his teacher.

[Fandango 1,439]

Uhmmm... Anita Cocktail, no disrespect intended, but are you from Ecuador? Are you from a South American country where 90%+ of the men are machista and the majority of the women there love the machista man? If you are not, then you cannot say this is false as it is the way a machista man is. Kindly refrain from stating something is false when you do not have the background to make such a statement.

I love statistics that are pulled out of one's azz.

I will not refrain from anything. That is my opinion. You don't like it? Tough. You have no idea what my background is, so kindly stop making your generalizations.

Your background doesn't give you license to tell this woman what her husband is FEELING. Get over yourself.

The one thing that is killing him the most is the fact that you have separated from him. That is torture for him. If you are going to keep him here (I.e. not divorce) you have to be with him. He can't learn otherwise.

[Ready to do it 101]

I'd be willing to bet I know exactly what her husband is feeling, after spending a better part of 20 years in Latin America.

Why didn't you just post something like, "Well I don't think that is true, but of course I've never been to Ecuador, nor do I know a single machista from Ecuador, so my opinion is pretty irrlevant." It certainly would have been more appropriate.

I love statistics that are pulled out of one's azz.

I will not refrain from anything. That is my opinion. You don't like it? Tough. You have no idea what my background is, so kindly stop making your generalizations.

Your background doesn't give you license to tell this woman what her husband is FEELING. Get over yourself.

[Ready to do it 101]

The other thing to note is your comment was not about whether the way he is treating her is correct or not. You stated that my and her comments about this is the way a machista male act are false.

If you have not lived in a society "full" of machista men and couples then you simply can't make that statement.

Let me explain. A machista male to us in the US would seem conceited, disrespectul, full of himself, and quite frankly most would call him an ahole. However, the machista male is the norm where he is from. HE makes the decisions, he protects her, he tells her what to do, if he wants water... she goes and gets it, if he wants a baby... she has a baby, if he wants an abortion... she is getting an abortion, she cleans, she makes 3 meals a day, she washes the clothes, and he does whatever the #### he wants. If he wants to go out and party every night and have numerous mistresses, then that is what he does... and the women quietly accept it. Many of the men have children with numerous other women, if she finds out about it... she accepts it.

You may not like the way a machista is, and you may not think a machista is right for the OP, but that's not our decision. She knows what she has, and like I said many women in a machista culture LOVE this kind of man. Her challenge is bringing a machista man into the US culture, with our accepted ways. She knew that coming in, and perhaps she "thought" she could change him.

One might ask, "Why in the world would a woman want to spend their life with someone like this?" Look up a happiness index. Colombia is constantly rated one of the top 5 happiest countries in the world. Bottom line, the way life is in Ecuador and Colombia may not be the norm or accepted in the US, but they sure do like it.

So, the statement you made of "That is false." Please explain if you would like to stick with that comment, and explain your relationships and time spent with machista men or in a machista culture.

I'd be willing to bet I know exactly what her husband is feeling, after spending a better part of 20 years in Latin America.

Why didn't you just post something like, "Well I don't think that is true, but of course I've never been to Ecuador, nor do I know a single machista from Ecuador, so my opinion is pretty irrlevant." It certainly would have been more appropriate.

[TBoneTX 45,284]

If you have not lived in a society "full" of machista men and couples then you simply can't make that statement.

Sorry, Lisa, but Ready is more on target in this instance. I wouldn't go so far to say that "the majority" of Latinas "love" these men (it could be that they put up with machista behavior because that's all they know and that's all that they think that they can expect), but otherwise, Ready is dead-nuts on. Please see my post earlier in this thread that compares machistas with U.S. rednecks.