I need some opinions

[keysjangle 145]

He is not cruel and loveless, and that's exactly why I have been down the same road with him again and again. If he was cruel and loveless I would have left him ages ago.

Malia - does someone who loves you treat you in these ways? Do you truly feel loved, fulfilled ... happy? He hurts you then reels you back in just in the moment you try to stand up for yourself. I promise you, he is playing games with you. That is his personality and he will not change. I have been where you are, and I know another married couple who have this problem. My male friend is in your shoes - his wife threatens to kill herself and him, throws glass bottles around, and cuts herself when they get in fights. She goes out all night drinking with other men. And yet he STAYS. Look in the mirror.

It doesn't get better. Don't just dwell on the good memories. A man is measured by how he acts when he is NOT happy, and NOT being prince charming. Everyone is good at being happy - but everyone handles anger, jealousy, or insecurity in different ways.

We aren't saying these things to be hurtful, it's just hard to see someone literally strolling into this situation.

Best wishes to you, I hope things turn out well

Edited July 28, 2011 by Gervl

[TBoneTX 45,284]

The key is to keep repeating "He is machista and will never change" until it's believed, si man.

[rlogan 2,036]

That's great Golden Gate - thanks for posting that. It is an earlier edition and the latest is the best, but this is going to be way good enough and she can read it immediately.

He is not actively trying to manipulate me, at least not with any real intention. Perhaps he's manipulating in the way a child is, trying to get what they want without a full picture of what is going on.

That's what Dr. Simon finds people like us say before it finally dawns on us that they make us miserable, and we need to pay attention to how miserable they make us feel instead of whatever words are coming out of their mouths.

[Golden Gate 530]

I don't think you have a personality defect. I just think that what is happening to you has happened to me before, and actually continues to happen to a certain degree, because that person who I felt manipulated me is the father of my children. And now the children are his hook in me. I agree that I am sure your husband doesn't do what he is doing in a conscious or mean way, and I don't doubt that he is loving. However, I think that when each time you are with that person, he is able to change your thinking to his, but when you are away from him, you have a different thinking, that is telling. I have to deal with that constantly, and unless I limit my exposure to that person, I am susceptible to falling into his way of thinking again. However, ultimately, his way of thinking isn't to my benefit. It doesn't make me happy. So, I hope you didn't think I was being harsh and you certainly have to make your own judgements based on your own experience. I was just trying to relate what I found similar in our situations. I wish you luck!!

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I don't think you have a personality defect. I just think that what is happening to you has happened to me before, and actually continues to happen to a certain degree, because that person who I felt manipulated me is the father of my children. And now the children are his hook in me. I agree that I am sure your husband doesn't do what he is doing in a conscious or mean way, and I don't doubt that he is loving. However, I think that when each time you are with that person, he is able to change your thinking to his, but when you are away from him, you have a different thinking, that is telling. I have to deal with that constantly, and unless I limit my exposure to that person, I am susceptible to falling into his way of thinking again. However, ultimately, his way of thinking isn't to my benefit. It doesn't make me happy. So, I hope you didn't think I was being harsh and you certainly have to make your own judgements based on your own experience. I was just trying to relate what I found similar in our situations. I wish you luck!!

I have dealt with a lot of women and men relationship problems, and each one is different. But in this case I feel compelled to say this.

I am a true believer that if someone loves you they will always protect you. From what you have informed us on this forum he has done everything but protect you. Now we all know that people from different places and walks of life have different upbringings and customs. But somethings are just universally wrong: Abuse in ANY form, verbal, physical, mental, or emotional is just wrong on every level. No excuses, no explainations, it's just wrong.

This is why in my earlier post I said stop contact with him. He knows you are wanting the relationship to work and he is using that to keep you attached to him. It's a vicious cycle that never ends; you make him upset(anything from saying the wrong thing to breathing wrong) he calls you out of your name or worse, you try to figure out what can be done and go right back to it, he says sorry, then it repeats itself all over again. An abuser can never be placated, something will ALWAYS set him off. The ONLY time I would even consider staying is if he got Counseling and you were able to see documentation that he was getting better. Anything less than this, and everytime you are with him, you risk your life.

Your fellow VJer's are concerned for your safety and I know when you love someone you believe anything can be achieved. But here is the hard answer: If you are fighting against the person who is supposed to love you, get out of it, simple as that....

[TBoneTX 45,284]

Some folks here -- although their advice is not wrong -- are responding more intricately than the case probably requires. In simplest terms, the husband is an Ecuadorian macho whose machista behavior will never change, and this is unacceptable treatment. Period.

[Fandango 1,439]

'but I love him, Jerry...'

[rlogan 2,036]

Some folks here -- although their advice is not wrong -- are responding more intricately than the case probably requires. In simplest terms, the husband is an Ecuadorian macho whose machista behavior will never change, and this is unacceptable treatment. Period.

It does not surprise me at all. It is learned behavior. It is pervasive in the culture. They have a name for it. The theme with all of these types across cultures is that their victims are just objects to attain ends. No empathy.

So how do the women fight back? I think I can guess.

[TBoneTX 45,284]

So how do the women fight back?

They don't. The situation can make them mad, sad, or both, but they put up with it permanently or until it's beyond intolerable. Very sad, sigh man.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

M-Bone,

What you've described is classic Ecuatoriano "machista" behavior -- and I mean classic. The suspicion, the drinking, the double standards... I can't even chalk much of it up to his feeling like a "pescado out of water" in his new environment.

When I was courting & visiting the future Mrs. T-B., she mentioned this behavior to me, stating without rancor that this is why she could never marry an Ecuatoriano. She said, "Whether to a greater or lesser extent, every Ecuatoriano is a macho." I took intellectual note of it, but I privately dismissed it as exaggeration. Well, on my second visit, I did some observing. Every one of the dozen boyfriends/husbands that I observed exhibited machista behavior. Some of it was absolutely appalling. Even one of my future brothers-in-law -- so personable and popular and sweet with his kids and everything else -- blew up in a macho way over something completely innocuous. His poor little wife (my future sister-in-law) was terrified.

At our Stokes interrogation at the ####### Guayaquil consulate, the Foreign Service National who interviewed me asked why Mrs. T-B.-to-be wanted to marry an American. I told him that she wouldn't marry an Ecuatoriano because of the ingrown, inbred machista behavior that they all exhibited. He said, "Yes, there are still pockets of that here and there." When he said that, it was all that I could do not to bust through the Plexiglass and throttle him for being so dismissive of the obvious.

Your Ecuatoriano's behavior, abusiveness, and actions are just like those of a lowlife American redneck who lives in a trailer park. (How are they not?) That's the American equivalent of the caliber of guy that you married. To hell with feeling sorry for him. The objective situation is that, just like Mrs. T-B., you have no obligation to put up with any of this. His behavior and actions come from the culture and how he was raised, and he will not and cannot change. Despite your hopes and his apologies or protests, he will not change. Therefore, you need to cut the cord -- wish him well, but state that you have higher standards for treatment (which you do, or else you wouldn't have posted here), and he needs to leave. Use the AOS money to send him home, or to any other country where he might like to go.

As one whose previous marriage (to an Americana) was quite dysfunctional, I can tell you that as soon as he's permanently gone, you'll sit down in your now-peaceful home, open your favorite adult beverage, and say out loud to no one in particular, "I'm free." And it's the best feeling in the world, si man.

Never were truer words ever typed, si man! Too many men from too many cultures exhibit this behaviour, unfortunately.

Some folks here -- although their advice is not wrong -- are responding more intricately than the case probably requires. In simplest terms, the husband is an Ecuadorian macho whose machista behavior will never change, and this is unacceptable treatment. Period.

I'm totally inaccord with you on this one.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Malia - does someone who loves you treat you in these ways? Do you truly feel loved, fulfilled ... happy? He hurts you then reels you back in just in the moment you try to stand up for yourself. I promise you, he is playing games with you. That is his personality and he will not change. I have been where you are, and I know another married couple who have this problem. My male friend is in your shoes - his wife threatens to kill herself and him, throws glass bottles around, and cuts herself when they get in fights. She goes out all night drinking with other men. And yet he STAYS. Look in the mirror.

It doesn't get better. Don't just dwell on the good memories. A man is measured by how he acts when he is NOT happy, and NOT being prince charming. Everyone is good at being happy - but everyone handles anger, jealousy, or insecurity in different ways.

We aren't saying these things to be hurtful, it's just hard to see someone literally strolling into this situation.

Best wishes to you, I hope things turn out well

That's about the size of it. We all have our issues but chronic mistreatment means that the "good" times are only the times when he or she is not being abusive. That's no way to live. He's a controlling abuser with a strong narcissistic element, MALIA, he doesn't love you. You don't exist in his mind, you have no value, you have no feelings so he can do anything or anyone he wants.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Hello everyone, Thanks in advance to those who reply.

I met my husband in Ecuador 3 years ago and about one year ago we decided to get married and get him here on a K1 visa. I came home to California to do the paperwork, so we spent over six months apart and he finally arrived on February 2nd. During this whole time we talked on the phone all the time and were very much in love. I visited him, and I thought I could never be happier.

Unfortunately, shortly after his arrival (within the week?) he began showing strange behavior. I thought at first he was just uncomfortable in a new country, not speaking English, and all of the unfamiliar things he was doing, but it just got worse. He would call me 5 or 6 times during my shift at work to make sure I was working and not having sex with other men. He would always accuse me of cheating on him when I came home from work, or when we would be walking together and I would look at other men (now, when I say looking I mean with my eyes, not flirting and smiling, just looking). When I would deny it he would become angry and call me a ####### or a #######. I am not cheating on him and I haven't since we decided to be serious with each other 2 years ago. He however, feels that I did cheat on him because I didn't see him as my partner for the first year we knew each other (when I met him and spent 3 weeks out of the entire year with him). He feels like I am lying to him all the time because I was with other people during that first year. Since August 2009 when I went down to stay with him for a while I have not slept with anyone but him.

Then after a couple of months here living and fighting and wasting our 90 days away he admits to me that HE cheated on ME while we were traveling and living together in Peru about a year and a half ago. While I was sleeping in our bed, he was drunk f*ing some girl in the bathroom of the club, later to come home and sleep it off while I went to work. During all this time I have been supporting him, sending money to him in Ecuador, and later when we were traveling, paying all expenses. Of course his admission caused another huge fight in which I called him a hypocrite for calling me a cheater when he cheated worse than I ever could have. He slept on the sofa, but the next day I forgave him... I told him now we're even (even though we're not) and that we should leave it all behind but he didn't. He continued to accuse me of cheating (now with my female friends too!) and any time I would leave the house for any reason he would call me every 30 minutes to make sure I was "being good."

I lost my job after 2 months and I'm still not sure if it was related to my-then-fiance and his constant vigilance or if the owner really couldn't pay my wage anymore (which is what he told me). Without a job I am unable to sponsor my husband in AOS (I have no willing co-sponsors) and I am still unemployed almost 4 months later. I had money for AOS saved so I had a little something at least. As you can imagine, loosing my income put us in a bad place and made all of our problems worse. Luckily, he had misc. landscaping jobs he could do without documents and he supported us for a couple months. We still spent a lot of time fighting, but I could tell he felt better about himself once he was contributing. Things got a little better but our 90 days were about to expire and I couldn't just brake it off... I love him so much and we had so many wonderful experiences together that even with the fighting I didn't want to brake up... I want the best for him (of course) and I couldn't just put him back on a plane to Esmeraldas where he has no opportunities... He comes from a very poor family in a village with something like 70% unemployment. I can't just send him back, I can't.

We married on the 89th day of the K1 visa and that day I felt so wonderful but less than a week later we got into another screaming match in which he called me a ####### and a ####### and a bad woman and all the rest. He has never been physically violent with me but that night he threatened me so I went to sleep at my mothers house. After that I told him I couldn't live with him anymore... I sent him to live with some buddies he found playing soccer, about 30 minutes away from our house. Once he is living somewhere else he becomes so apologetic and loving he says he's so sorry (as he always does after a fight) and that he wants to come back etc. I tell him we need time to get our sh*t together and that I won't take him back until he stops calling me puta y sorra y el resto.

It's been over a month that we've been living separately now, and things have been better. We don't fight hardly ever because we only see each other for a couple of hours a week and I love it (the not fighting part). I decided to move to a bigger city because I can't find a job here and I thought maybe a couple of months later he could come and move with me there- once I have a job again and I am able to support him again he could come back... This is what I was thinking, but he doesn't want that, he wants to be with me NOW. He says he's changed, that he loves me, and that he didn't come to the US to live with a bunch of guys, he came to live with me. But, I know he hasn't changed because he still accuses me of cheating or planning to cheat, and he still becomes irrationally angry and rude whenever something doesn't go his way. And he still drinks. I know that planning a future on some unknown "change" is not very smart... but...

To make all matters worse, last week I went to bring him to visit late at night and I was so sleepy he offered to drive. Even though he doesn't have a license yet, I trust his driving skills. He said he had had 2 beers earlier and I thought he wouldn't offer to drive if he had been drinking (besides, 2 budlites are not going to get you drunk). Shortly after we get going he begins to drive erratically. He got angry about something (probably that I was still unwilling to have him back at home) and he began to speed up and slow down quickly and inappropriately. I got scared, I thought he was going to crash, and so I tried to get out of the car at the stop. He wouldn't let me leave and began to speed up again (on a crowded Friday night while everyone is walking the bar crawl) and a police officer saw us. He stopped us and I apologized saying we were fighting and that I would drive, but of course the cop had to pull my husband out of the car and test him for drunk driving. Turned out he blew 1.1% BAC (legal limit in CA is 0.08% or approx. 4 beers in an hour) and got a DUI! He maintained he had only had 2 budlites to the cops and to me, until 3 days later when he finally admits he had had 10 beers.

So, now he has a court date for his DUI and driving without a license, he's lying to me about I who knows what, we're still fighting, I'm still unemployed, we still haven't filed for AOS, and... we're f*cked right? This is just one long nightmare, right? Someone hit me over the head. Please.

I won't hit you over the head. You need support, not abuse, that's his game. "Hubby" is a control freak, he displays almost all the characteristics of a controlling abuser. He hasn't been violent...YET. Even if he never lays a hand on you, do you need this garbage? He is running the universal control freak playbook and HE WILL NOT CHANGE!!!!! Get out now!!!!!

[P and G 5]

I have been in your shoes and I can say that everything everyone has said is true. There is no future in this relationship. I don't doubt that you love this man. But this issue goes beyond love. You can love someone that is not right or good for you, as you are certainly experiencing now. Love is only one part of the equation in a good relationship. The man has many problems, and he will probably not change anytime soon unless something very drastic happens. And you leaving him is not the thing that is going make him change. I once dated a guy that had a similar insecurity he thought everytime I was outside some guy was hitting on me or I was going to cheat on him. It was so bad he didn't even want me to go to the supermarket by myself for fear that I was going to get hit on. Now at first I thought it was something I was doing or not doing, and thought how could he think that I was capable of doing such things, then I realized that I was not the problem that there was something very, very, wrong with his thinking. Needless to say that after 2 years of this kind of behavior things got progressively worst. With each break up and makeup, he was always so sincerely apologetic and did his best for a few days to show me he was a changed man until the next time (and trust me it does get worst with time). Do you see my point. These relationships are typically filled with a lot of passion. Please do not confuse this passion for the stability a good relationship requires.

Do yourself a favor and put yourself first. You can't save anyone else if you're not capable of first saving yourself. When you take a piece of paper and write down the positives and negatives of this relationship, I can bet my hat that the negatives far outweigh the positives. Your positives probably are that he makes me feel good, he tells me how much he loves me, he tells me that no one else will ever love me the same way, etc. Does any of this sound familiar to you? How about things like he makes me feel safe, I can count on him, he is responsible, he takes my feelings into consideration, I can trust him. These are just a few of the things that good relationships are made of.

Love him enough to let him go and possibly get the help he needs. Whether he does or not, he is responsible for his own life. It is not your job, nor could you do it anyway to save someone who doesn't or isn't able to be saved. He will pull you down with him. It does not make you heartless. You will still be a good person after this. One day you will use this experience to help someone in a similar positon.

[TBoneTX 45,284]

he will probably not change anytime soon unless something very drastic happens.

Although the general advice in this post is very good, the overthinking in this case continues. The fact remains that the guy is an Ecuadorian machista who will not change, PERIOD. There is no other outcome. Trust this. Ecuadorian machista = no change.

I suggest that we withhold further additions to this thread until we hear from the OP with an update. The horse has been beaten thoroughly in the meantime.

[Aztec&Taino 144]

Laura the real answer to this is yes. New years 2010 he drank for 3 days straight and disappeared for 10 hours after telling me he would be right back. We broke up for 3 weeks. October 2009 we were staying at an organic farm volunteering in Canoa and he got angry at me for not being "in the mood" one night. We got in a fight, in which I'm sure some lines were crossed because I locked him out of the room somehow. We were in an elevated room and I didn't even think of the window as accessible but he climbed in, terrifying me. I thought he was coming to hurt me (though he said he only wanted to make up), but I starting calling for help and woke up the whole camp. I spent the night in a different room for a couple days. There are many more lesser fights that we had as well. Somehow through all our travels the bad stuff didn't seem so bad, the good stuff seamed more important, and the more time we spent together, the more attached to each other we became.

I don't know why I walked away from so many fights willing to keep going, but I did. I think that because we're in my home country now where I have established rules about things, the 'bad stuff' I used to write off has become bigger, and the good stuff I relied upon has almost disappeared. Put all together like this it makes me look like a fool. *sigh*

Malia,

It is, unfortunately, an error of many women to think that their man will change their behavior or to think that their love somehow will change their man. You know, many women feel like "rescuers" and think that they can make a straight, responsible man out of a womanizer, drunk, lazy, manipulative, etc. or whatever the man's defects happen to be. I am guessing the the spirit of adventure and traveling together in a different country, culture and environment made these fights seeem, well, in a way "foreign" to what your life together could really be if you were married and settled.

Now, for your own financial well-being, you should really consider filing for a divorce sooner rather than later if you have decided in your own mind and heart that there is not way to save your marriage. It is worrisome that he has already gone to the ER for a non-urgent need. Remember that by having married him you have also tied yourself financially to him... Break it off with a divorce for good before you find yourself in the poor hourse due to his medical bills.