Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan

[danae 0]

No - but in this case, just because its funny doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

It seems strange that its considered extremely offensive to parody certain peoples and ethnic groups, but somehow ok to laugh at east europeans?

His original schtick was having this character interact with Americans who act differently around such a foreigner so he really was lampooning Americans - at least on his HBO show. The fact that real people would actually fall for his overtly stereotyped, ethnic character was more a commentary about Americans view of foreigners. It's brilliant comedy. Unfortunately, the result is that now the character is iconic and people are laughing at him instead of with him about how stupid people can be in their narrow perceptions of foreigners.

Yes, that is a very good point

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

After all these days its generally not considered acceptable to portray germans as the usual "Ver are yoor papers!?" stereotype

It's not?

we should all protest hogan's heros then

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No - but in this case, just because its funny doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

It seems strange that its considered extremely offensive to parody certain peoples and ethnic groups, but somehow ok to laugh at east europeans?

Yes it is considered offensive to laugh at certain ethnicities, but that is only because the PC brigade have pushed it so hard, and now we are all walking on eggshells- and IMO making a greater 'divide'.

And you know, people make assumptions and laugh about the ways of the Brits and certainly of Americans- this movie is no different.

I actually think it will do some good for the country. Like welshcookie said, it puts them on the map. They will be increasing awareness that it is not how Borat portrays- and Im sure the majority of intelligent people will of course realise this. Had the movie not existed, the countries efforts to increase awareness would have been in vain, as no one would have even cared.

Laughter brings people together

I'm not saying its not funny, but that humor is derived from poking fun at the expense of a whole group of people. Whether you find it funny or not, its important to be at least aware of what you are watching. I'm not sure I want to see a return to that sort of widespread stereotyping which used to be taken quite seriously and would creep into things other than satire (which this is).

Which raises another point - satire is only effective if you know what it is you are satirising. Even soap operas today haven't gotten beyond the "token" black and other ethnic minority characters. As you say that is partially the result of political correctness. This wouldn't be so bad if it were the Kazakhs who were producing this - its usually considered ok to have a dig at yourself, but generally not so hot to pander to bald stereotypes of other countries, cultures and people of which you have no direct experience and therefore no knowledge.

[mrsushi66 0]

I often wonder if the phrase PC has been put out there so people can feel good about sterotyping or poking fun at a certain group.

I would love it if someone could enlighten me and explain what is to be gained by promoting a sterotype or having humor at the expence of a subset of people. I am not a tree hugger or extreme liberal.

I am truly asking for someone to explain the benefit of picking a certain subcategory of the population and singling them out for sterotyping and humor that puts them in a light as being less than everone else. Personaly I dont want to feel better about myself by knocking someone else down.

Maybe I will be enlightened today and someone will have a good reason for this. But to come here and say yeah...people dont just like this because it is not PC is BULL-LONEY. I dont like it because I think it is wrong.

Paul

[mawilson 2,133]

yeah...people dont just like this because it is not PC is BULL-LONEY. I dont like it because I think it is wrong.

I like it because it's not PC. I hate PC (and PCs )

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No - but in this case, just because its funny doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

It seems strange that its considered extremely offensive to parody certain peoples and ethnic groups, but somehow ok to laugh at east europeans?

His original schtick was having this character interact with Americans who act differently around such a foreigner so he really was lampooning Americans' - at least on his HBO show. The fact that real people (his show was a reality based mocumentary) would actually fall for his overtly stereotyped, ethnic character was more a commentary about Americans view of foreigners. It's brilliant comedy. Unfortunately, the result is that now the character is iconic and people are laughing at him instead of with him about how stupid people can be in their narrow perceptions of foreigners.

Yes that's right - the humour is deceptively clever that way. Sacha started off with the Eleven O'Clock show which was itself a sort of offshoot of The Day Today, and Brass Eye - and a lot of the same production people were involved. Ali G started off doing ridiculous interviews with celebrities who would be unable to see that his character was totally over-the-top ridiculous. Chris Morris did the same thing before him with The Day Today and Brass Eye (which was so controversial over that "pedo-geddon/Myra Hindley" thing that he has been effectively banned from mainstream television).

This is kind of moving beyond that into traditional stereotype humour - so with Borat what is left over of the clever satire is I think lost or has been abandoned in favour of conventional mass appeal - something that Chris Morris abhorred BTW.

Edit to add - it’s a real shame that Brass Eye or The Day Today aren't available in the US. Can't see a network broadcasting that stuff - if people get offended by a "wardrobe malfunction" you can only imagine how this will be perceived.

Edited September 14, 2006 by erekose

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

No - but in this case, just because its funny doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

It seems strange that its considered extremely offensive to parody certain peoples and ethnic groups, but somehow ok to laugh at east europeans?

Yes it is considered offensive to laugh at certain ethnicities, but that is only because the PC brigade have pushed it so hard, and now we are all walking on eggshells- and IMO making a greater 'divide'.

And you know, people make assumptions and laugh about the ways of the Brits and certainly of Americans- this movie is no different.

I actually think it will do some good for the country. Like welshcookie said, it puts them on the map. They will be increasing awareness that it is not how Borat portrays- and Im sure the majority of intelligent people will of course realise this. Had the movie not existed, the countries efforts to increase awareness would have been in vain, as no one would have even cared.

Laughter brings people together

I'm not saying its not funny, but that humor is derived from poking fun at the expense of a whole group of people. Whether you find it funny or not, its important to be at least aware of what you are watching. I'm not sure I want to see a return to that sort of widespread stereotyping which used to be taken quite seriously and would creep into things other than satire (which this is).

Which raises another point - satire is only effective if you know what it is you are satirising. Even soap operas today haven't gotten beyond the "token" black and other ethnic minority characters. As you say that is partially the result of political correctness. This wouldn't be so bad if it were the Kazakhs who were producing this - its usually considered ok to have a dig at yourself, but generally not so hot to pander to bald stereotypes of other countries, cultures and people of which you have no direct experience and therefore no knowledge.

Sasha's other 2 characters make fun of English chavs and gay Austrian. So he does spread it around. And they are all funny.

For me, PC 'humor' is almost never funny.

[Welshcookie 17]

I remember when as Ali G depicted the Welsh as living in holes in the ground blacking up and offending black people....oh and our language of course.....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sasha's other 2 characters make fun of English chavs and gay Austrian. So he does spread it around. And they are all funny.

For me, PC 'humor' is almost never funny.

Sacha's stuff originally had a clever post-modern tilt to it - but I think that is getting increasingly lost in favour of mass appeal, when it was never really about people laughing strictly at the stereotyped characters, but at people who could not see the stereotype and would take it at face value.

BTW - did you see any of the interviews he did with UK politicians or pressure groups. It was as much about making them out to look foolish than it was simply laughing at a stereotypical character.

Edited September 14, 2006 by erekose

[mawilson 2,133]

I remember when as Ali G depicted the Welsh as living in holes in the ground blacking up and offending black people....oh and our language of course.....

"So tell me, Mr <some big shot guy from Wales>, what's so good about The Whales

except that it sounds like the fish with the biggest ####### in the sea? Because with all

due respect, from what I hear it's #######."

"I don't like coffee, I like chicken"

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No - but in this case, just because its funny doesn't mean that it isn't racist.

It seems strange that its considered extremely offensive to parody certain peoples and ethnic groups, but somehow ok to laugh at east europeans?

His original schtick was having this character interact with Americans who act differently around such a foreigner so he really was lampooning Americans' - at least on his HBO show. The fact that real people (his show was a reality based mocumentary) would actually fall for his overtly stereotyped, ethnic character was more a commentary about Americans view of foreigners. It's brilliant comedy. Unfortunately, the result is that now the character is iconic and people are laughing at him instead of with him about how stupid people can be in their narrow perceptions of foreigners.

Yes that's right - the humour is deceptively clever that way. Sacha started off with the Eleven O'Clock show which was itself a sort of offshoot of The Day Today, and Brass Eye - and a lot of the same production people were involved. Ali G started off doing ridiculous interviews with celebrities who would be unable to see that his character was totally over-the-top ridiculous. Chris Morris did the same thing before him with The Day Today and Brass Eye (which was so controversial over that "pedo-geddon/Myra Hindley" thing that he has been effectively banned from mainstream television).

This is kind of moving beyond that into traditional stereotype humour - so with Borat what is left over of the clever satire is I think lost or has been abandoned in favour of conventional mass appeal - something that Chris Morris abhorred BTW.

Edit to add - it’s a real shame that Brass Eye or The Day Today aren't available in the US. Can't see a network broadcasting that stuff - if people get offended by a "wardrobe malfunction" you can only imagine how this will be perceived.

I agree. He did an Ali G character movie but that it was horrible...perhaps he got scared and caved into mass appeal?

Is it available on DVD somewhere?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Sasha's other 2 characters make fun of English chavs and gay Austrian. So he does spread it around. And they are all funny.

For me, PC 'humor' is almost never funny.

Sacha's stuff originally had a clever post-modern tilt to it - but I think that is getting increasingly lost in favour of mass appeal, when it was never really about people laughing strictly at the stereotyped characters, but at people who could not see the stereotype and would take it at face value.

BTW - did you see any of the interviews he did with UK politicians or pressure groups. It was as much about making them out to look foolish than it was simply laughing at a stereotypical character.

Yes, saw some on youtube. I also saw him making fun of Kazakh villagers in his older stuff too.

I think the Kazakh President is only making things look worse by wanting to meet with Bush and campaign against this movie. The people that have no clue will still have no clue and the people who 'get' this movie will still think it's funny.

[Welshcookie 17]

I have everything he ever did on DVD

<runs away>.........................

[mawilson 2,133]

I have everything he ever did on DVD

<runs away>.........................

What was that phrase in Welsh that sounded like "coffee" but actually meant "I like"?

Ali G: "How do I say I like chicken in Welsh"?

Language teacher: "something something coffee"

Ali G: "I don't like coffee, I like chicken"

[almaty 19]

Sasha's other 2 characters make fun of English chavs and gay Austrian. So he does spread it around. And they are all funny.

For me, PC 'humor' is almost never funny.

Sacha's stuff originally had a clever post-modern tilt to it - but I think that is getting increasingly lost in favour of mass appeal, when it was never really about people laughing strictly at the stereotyped characters, but at people who could not see the stereotype and would take it at face value.

BTW - did you see any of the interviews he did with UK politicians or pressure groups. It was as much about making them out to look foolish than it was simply laughing at a stereotypical character.

Yes, saw some on youtube. I also saw him making fun of Kazakh villagers in his older stuff too.

I think the Kazakh President is only making things look worse by wanting to meet with Bush and campaign against this movie. The people that have no clue will still have no clue and the people who 'get' this movie will still think it's funny.

i agree..he is a chopf##k..he should leave it alone and worry about kazakhstan instead of a comedian....one of the biggest selling shirts in kazakhstan..saw it a couple of times..( that trnslate to biggest selling im my dictionary) is his borat tee-shirt of kazakhstan./..which has ....allah ..then man..then horse..then sheep..woman..and pig...