Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[Becky<3Jorim 1]

maybe she is homesick and she doesn't know how to deal with it at the moment. Instead of playing the husband/fiance part. Try being her friend for a while. What does she like to do? what did she like doing in her home country? Women are very sensitive. Also you guys still have a lot to know about each other. give it some time. be patient. I read about the misunderstandings. Teach her some more English so u guys can communicate better. also the fact that ur accusing her of wanting to marry u just for citizenship bcuz she is from Ukraine. that makes u sound like an A hole sorry to say that. and i didnt say u are one. i just said u sounded like one to say that. bcuz u are comparing her to other women, just for the record.

do u drive her everywhere? maybe you can show her way around so she can get out on her own u kno? also maybe shopping for home decorations so that she can make the home more comfortable for herself and that would keep her mind busy i hope its not what u think it is and its just stress. goodluck and i will be praying for you guys.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Hope you had the good sense to wear a condom on those few Occasions you got "lucky". Without trying to lay blame, the two of you are incompatible, unless you forgot to mention that you are a masochist. Assuming, since you've got grown kids, that you already went through one divorce. Get out the calculator and figure out how much this one will cost you. I suppose since you

filled out the I-134 affadvit of support you would be good for a few years of child support for her daughter.

Her even mentioning her rights at this stage is like a terrorist boarding a 747 and asking if anyone has a match.

Don't ever marry someone hoping they will change

Don't ever marry someone hoping they will change

Edited July 17, 2011 by Dan and Judy

[96accord 3]

Sorry to hear about your current relationship. I think that in your heart you know that she is just playing you. Based on your story, this woman uses herself physically to get what she wants from you. I believe that is not what makes a relationship. I have been through a bad one, my one ex and only. When they use their body to get what they want it just means one thing. There is no love there. I don't care about what others are saying, "oh! let her adjust to her new surrounding and the new country????" If you love someone it doesn't matter where you are, your affection never disappear. When you love someone you don't make them feel the way she makes you feel at the moment," all confused about wether or not she loves you, wants to be with you, or if you should just be sending her back!" There should be no doubt in your mind and in hers that she and you want to be together. My friend do yourself a favor and stop this wishful thinking (we know you love her and are probably infatuated with her). If she really cared about you instead of just wanting to just use you as a bridge to american permanent residency; you wouldn't be on this forum asking us what we think. I think you need to cut this cancer off right away before you get yourself in too deep. I apologize for being so negative but the truth hurts.

Edited July 17, 2011 by 96accord

[dindo and patty 20]

What happened to the getting to know each other intimately and connecting not only on a physical level, but emotional and spiritual level while you were apart??? How was the relationship during those months when you were apart??? The K-1 Visa isn't meant for couples who are not sure whether they want to spend their lives together til death do them part. It is for couples who already know they cannot live without each other.

Cultural differences or not, being home sick, and having difficulty adjusting...at the end of the day, either party will see that they are doing this because they can't seem to live without each other! But, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here. It seems that both parties are trying to manipulate each other IMHO. Where is the love??? Love as we know it conquers all!

I really hope it turns out for the best!

Edited July 17, 2011 by dindo and patty

[Penny Lane 8,159]

You sound entirely too focused on sex. Your relationship isn't working on ANY level and yet all you can complain about is the physical part. Can't say I blame her for sleeping in another room, to be honest.

[Darnell 8,478]

You sound entirely too focused on sex. Your relationship isn't working on ANY level and yet all you can complain about is the physical part. Can't say I blame her for sleeping in another room, to be honest.

Uhm... what happened when you came into USA, started living with your fiance(e) ?

[TBoneTX 45,330]

I visited her twice [...] in the last 18 months. First time in April 2010 for a week, and I proposed to her at the end of the visit. Second time was in April 2011 for two weeks, and this time the relationship turned intimate, sort of. After a few times early in the visit, she created arguments, and slept in with her daughter for several nights. She was very nervous and emotional for much of the visit. It was only when I told her I had lost interest in her with only a few days to go that she "rediscovered" what a desirable man I am. I decided to bring her to the USA anyway.

The problems now are a direct consequence of what happened before. No relationship ever had a chance to develop. The red flags were whirring in hurricane-force winds very early, and it's no surprise that the situation continues.

The last statement in bold type above (from the OP) is the crux of the mistake. She was conflicted or unsure or simply not READY, and the OP was the same, and that was the non-foundation for the state of this non-relationship.

Neither was ready for such a commitment. There was no foundation for a relationship, and unsurprisingly there's no relationship now. There's not a hint of "love" on either side, and in fact they're not even friends. The kindest, most honorable thing to do would be to send her and the daughter back home right away, as highest priority.

If I were to offer advice to the OP after the foreigners have returned home, I'd recommend that he re-examine his motives, motivations, and sense of haste as it applies to entering any relationship, before he enters another.

Edited July 17, 2011 by TBoneTX

[Darnell 8,478]

For once, I am forced to focus on the 'non-foundation' aspect of this relationship.

TBoneTX has nailed it - there is no foundation.

[Phil N 4]

Wow!! Thank you all amazing journey companions for the amazing posts and helpful advice!!

There were a few themes I will try to respond to and clarify.

1) Her Withholding intimacy with the explicit, stated intent of pressuring me to marry her- This is exactly how she has stated her intentions to me, on multiple occasions.

2) People assume I am pressuring her relentlessly for sex. Not really so. I view sex and intimacy as an overall barometer of a relationship. My view is that all things are revealed in intimate relations. Also, normally in RW relationships, it is the man who needs to initiate. To me it indicates a lack of connection, a lack of respect/attraction on her part for me. I would prefer to discover and work through this sooner, NOW, not after marrying her. In nearly all my recent past relationships, I was pursued by my girlfriends, and they couldn't get enough of me. So when that isn't the case, I start looking for what is wrong with this picture.

3) Remember, her English is excellent, amazingly good. That said, it is exhausting and stressful to have to communicate in your non-native language all the time.

4) I believe there may be some psychological issue, and I've read a little about bipolar disorder, but not sure that's her, still learning. Also possibly maybe some other issue. Also possibly just very emotional and under a lot of stress and worry and all emotions coming out. She smokes like a fiend, total addict there, extreme dependence, for calming her emotions.

5) I think the real reason she picked me was as a father influence and stability for her daughter. I have beautiful, amazing, successful young adult daughters. So I'm not really her natural "type" in a romantic sense, so there's some warming up to the idea needed on her part. The problem is that she expects to be able to use rationing intimacy as a way of controlling me. To that behavior, I'm saying no way, never, uh-uh, not happening, and willing to walk away if needed. I do think she actually is committed to making this work and not necessarily concocting VAWA schemes. This is a girl with 10 green flags and 10 red flags. If she were setting out to defraud me, she would have conducted herself quite differently.

6) Remember, she is a very complicated, intelligent, clever, conniving, yet tender and vulnerable and loving woman. Neither put her on a pedestal, and certainly don't pity her, as she is quite capable and resourceful and needs no pity. She has 2-1/2 university degrees, and the 1/2 was in pre-law, and this is a woman who is quite capable of working the legal and bureaucratic system.

7) I didn't "correct" her way of raising her daughter. She asked for my advice and guidance on the situation with her daughter. She changed her mind later and used feminine wiles and excuses to change plans at the last moment. I prefer more honest and direct communication. Again, perhaps a cultural difference issue to continue working toward understanding on.

8) I agree there is a bit of lack of foundation for the relationship in many ways. She didn't get to know me when I visited, because she was immobilized much of the time by emotions, at least that was my take. Her male friend in the USA has mediated us through many misunderstandings. I understand that I am rolling the dice, taking a flyer. I bet on this woman, against logic, and I am not surprised that there are challenges in making it work. My bet is that the potential reward of an amazing loving relationship will make it all worth it in the end.

Thank you all for helpful posts and I will post more as this unfolds. Last night, she returned to our room for the first time, more like a fully clothed nap after a night of partying than truly sleeping together, but progress.

I feel like I need to keep trying to sincerely work through this as best I can. With K1 and marriage license timeframes, I'm thinking maybe setting a date of about 7 weeks from now. Please continue to share your helpful thoughts and I will post some updates in a couple days.

[Neonred 3,569]

Well, good luck to you and your "project" but I think most of us know where this is headed.

[Phil N 4]

Also, I should note that we stayed in contact on a near-daily basis through email, phone (Rebtel) and Skype, since about February 2010. For regular guys with jobs, it's tricky to swing many visits to Ukraine in a short period of time.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

So, you're saying she speaks very good English and that language isn't a barrier so I'm going to tell you how it was for me, being fluent of course as I'm Australian.

Tony and I were more than prepared to get married and the date WAS set before I arrived. I was planning the wedding from Australia and finalised it when I arrived (married about a month and a half after I arrived). We lived together in the US for 2 months prior to filing the K1 and I did base how well we'd be together permanently based on how we lived together over those two months BUT I was still scared/worried that "for good" would change things. That having to financially support me 100% would put a big strain on our relationship. That the boredom of not being able to drive and do stuff would strain us as well. I didn't take everything with me on that first flight over. I wanted to be prepared in case it was too much for us (happy to report I was worried for no reason).

Tony was VERY understanding of my adjustment period (still is but it was harder for me - and him I'm sure - in the beginning). He didn't leave me alone to go hang out with friends as you have done. He took me with him, he integrated me into his life. I of course insisted on him going by himself at times to ensure he still maintained those relationships. You seem to be telling her you'll go whether she likes it or not. I am also reading that you tell her that "for your sanity" you need to go out with friends... that would make me sad to hear.

Then there's the sexual aspect. You said you're not pressuring her. In your latest post you're stating that you're used to being pursued... that's all well and good but in "love" there's no pursuer, it's a mutual relationship. You shouldn't need to be pursued, you should always be there, as with her. I'm sure she knows you "expect" sex and she's probably very nervous about that... especially if she doesn't feel ready.

Our relationship has of course grown more over time as living together versus apart there are some differences BUT the basics were there before I came over. We talked about what each other expected, we had a few little disagreements, we talked them out. I was still worried that some of it was just "talk" and that it would be different once I was there (as I said above) but again, happy to report neither he nor I lied so it's been as expected... better even.

BUT even with all of this, hearing the words "I found out I have no rights until we're married" would worry me. Including the little things like that you know "facts" about her (like her schooling etc) but apparently nothing about her personality or what you were in for emotionally when she got here. I don't personally think that you are ready for marriage... at least with her. If I found out that my fiance was saying the things you've said about her, thinking the thoughts you've been thinking I wouldn't want to marry him either. Marriage is a relationship built on mutual love, trust and respect. You said you love her but I don't think you trust or respect her, and I think the same could be said about her feelings for you (based on your post).

The BIG question for you though is: What would you regret more.. marrying her and finding out she WAS using you for a GC (possibly including false reports to police about abuse etc), or not marrying her and missing out the CHANCE of a fabulous relationship? If you can't even see the chance for a "fabulous relationship" based on how she is currently acting, then I think you know your answer. I think you're hoping everything will work out but too scared to marry her in case she's lying.. and she's probably worried you're not going to marry her so she's not acting normal.

Just talk to her. I think you'll know what to say while talking to her (without the child around). If it doesn't feel right now, avoiding talking about it won't make it better.

[Fandango 1,439]

It's really not a question of what we think, but what YOU think. And it seems your gut is really trying to tell you. It's up to you if you want to listen.

[jingros 9]

You've got a lot invested in the relationship at this point - financial and emotional. I understand letting go and walking away from the table is difficult to do. None of us will have to endure the consqequences of your decision so you have to do what you think is right. I'm just warning you that the aftermath of a wrong decision could be worse than you can ever imagine. The 'no rights until after marriage' speech is one of several huge red flags you have mentioned, and given your short and uneventful face to face time prior to bringing her here, I suspect the red flags dwarf whatever green flags you're seeing. Anyway, your life, your decision. I hope it all works out the best for both of you.

[Phil N 4]

Again, thank you to everyone who posted.

Several suggested my girl has BiPolar disorder. I looked at this extensively, and while she could have BiPolar II or BiPolar Cyclothymia, or even Mixed BiPolar Disorder, the fit was only partial between those symptoms and the behaviors I am seeing.

A better hypothesis that fits her behavior more closely is Borderline Personality Disorder.

-----------

University of Washington psychologist Marsha Linehan, one of the world's leading experts on BPD, describes it this way: "Borderline individuals are the psychological equivalent of third-degree-burn patients. They simply have, so to speak, no emotional skin. Even the slightest touch or movement can create immense suffering."

Borderline patients seem to have no internal governor; they are capable of deep love and profound rage almost simultaneously. They are powerfully connected to the people close to them and terrified by the possibility of losing them — yet attack those people so unexpectedly that they often ensure the very abandonment they fear. When they want to hold, they claw instead. Many therapists have no clue how to treat borderlines.

What defines borderline personality disorder — and makes it so explosive — is the sufferers' inability to calibrate their feelings and behavior. When faced with an event that makes them depressed or angry, they often become inconsolable or enraged.

For (BP Sufferer Woman) Lily, who calls (Psychologist Marsha Linehan's) therapy "Zen philosophy meets tough love," Linehan was the first therapist to understand that managing Lily's illness would require Lily to take a new kind of responsibility — a willingness to grow the emotional skin she never had.

Linehan also taught Lily various skills to regulate her emotions. Among the most important is one Linehan calls the "wise mind" — a kind of calm, Zen state that Linehan insists even the most debilitated patients can achieve. "Generally," she writes, "I have patients follow their breath ... and try to let their focus settle into their physical center, at the bottom of their inhalation. That very centered point is wise mind." Lily remembers this sensation clearly; she came to feel that her dark moods had a physical location in her body — her solar plexus — and when she focused on it, she could deactivate a destructive emotion.

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In particular, I have experienced the "splitting" behavior in relationships typical of partners of BPD sufferers, where I go from savior to devil in a few moments over a very trivial matter.

Also, I have observed a lot of black-and-white thinking from her.

One that has been most problematic for ME: She has a BELIEF that I am the CAUSE of her emotions, that her emotions are something that simply happen to her as a result of external causes, and that she has little or no choice in the matter. Naturally, I am a frequent external cause of her emotions, and all too often, the emotions that result are negative and I am the devil to her.

I will post a separate topic asking for the wisdom of others as I learn more about this situation.

I need to figure out if this situation can be saved and the potential for a happy relationship is there, or if the only sane thing would be for me to cut my losses and run, and if so, how to do that in a responsible and considerate way.