Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[Dan and Judy 614]

INTERESTING NUMBERS:

Days at my house: About 35

Times she slept in my bed with me: 8-10

Times we cuddled and talked in bed together: 0

Intimate relations times: about 5

Times we watched movies/TV together in bed: 0

Times we watched movies together in Theater room: 1

Times we talked into the wee hours of the morning over drinks, outside on the deck: about 6 or 7

Times we ate meals together: About half the time

Times she prepared meals for me: Most of the time

Times she did my laundry for me: 1

Russian language lessons she gave me: 0 (She gave me 1 in her country)

Times she allowed her teenage daughter out to meet new friends: 1

Times she allowed her teenage daughter out to sports camp or workshop activities: 1 (She/they bailed on 2nd day of a sports camp)

Did we forget to mention one of us has OCPD.

two of us have aspergers, but we are not telling which 2

Edited August 30, 2011 by Dan and Judy

[TBoneTX 45,361]

INTERESTING NUMBERS:

Days at my house: About 35

Times she slept in my bed with me: 8-10

Times we cuddled and talked in bed together: 0

Intimate relations times: about 5

Times we watched movies/TV together in bed: 0

Times we watched movies together in Theater room: 1

Times we talked into the wee hours of the morning over drinks, outside on the deck: about 6 or 7

Times we ate meals together: About half the time

Times she prepared meals for me: Most of the time

Times she did my laundry for me: 1

Russian language lessons she gave me: 0 (She gave me 1 in her country)

Times she allowed her teenage daughter out to meet new friends: 1

Times she allowed her teenage daughter out to sports camp or workshop activities: 1 (She/they bailed on 2nd day of a sports camp)

Man -- talk about a clear snapshot of not-a-relationship. And look how she treated her own daughter, ufff man.

[B_J 2,752]

The one thing I did glean from all this was to NOT marry the woman until you are absolutely certain,

Actually, I think that should be:

Do not bring somebody over on a K-1 Visa unless you are absolutely certain.

[Phil N 4]

Man -- talk about a clear snapshot of not-a-relationship. And look how she treated her own daughter, ufff man.

Her daughter is her BPD "constant object". Always has to have her around. Problem is daughter needs to be able to have a life too and not have to take care of mom's emotions all the time. One thing that was really sick is the way she would curse at me and mock me in Russian, for the daughter's benefit. Toward the end, she also made her daughter participate in more sick games, like the time she asked to be dropped off at the fabric store, and I gave her a $20 because it was all I had. She insisted I had to give her $80 more or she (and her daughter) were not getting out of my car. This was during the noon hour, and I had to go back to work. After sitting in the parking lot for 5 minutes, I finally just drove home. Then she refused to get out of my car there. Of course, she made the daughter participate in this. I have a second car, so I got out, and went and drove my other car to work, as the two of them sat there. The daughter is a great kid, and it's really sad that she wound up in the middle of this mess. But, as I said, this will be at least the *second* time that the mom (and daughter along with) has been removed from a family residence by police. If I'd married this woman, can you imagine what the daughter would have "learned" about how a woman gets her needs met?

[Phil N 4]

More responding to TBoneTX's post...

Yes, it was a constant feeling of there-is-something-horribly-wrong-with-this-picture. Mostly she made me miss and appreciate the ex-girlfriend, now the re-girlfriend. Absolutely drove me away. Now I know how to tell the difference between a very emotional woman and a woman with BPD. Every day I celebrate that I didn't marry this woman. Would have made a huge mess of my life. Thank you for your participation in this thread and interjecting a voice of reason. I needed it all to not get sucked in. BPDs almost cast a spell on their intimate partners.

[LA80 3]

The daughter has already learned, Phil. Just move on and enjoy your life. That marriage would probably equal hell anyway, so be happy.

[rlogan 2,036]

RLogan's hysteria

Manipulators try to paint you as insane.

over my perceived codependency issues

and insert words called "minimizers" or "invalidators" like this. When you couple "hysteria" with "perceived" you have the insane person who is delusional, "perceiving" things that are not there.

stopped being useful after the first post.

Exactly so. The thread management is a relentless fixation on the girl instead of our own behavior. Posts that are useful for us in manipulating the thread direction our way receive flattery. Posts that direct attention to us are... not useful. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Now for something I could not agree with more:

There's a lot that simply can't be shared effectively in this forum.

Talk about an understatement. Let me tell you a fascinating story, and you better listen good. Life is so amazing with serendipity sometimes. I'll just make up some names and places here, you know - to protect the real identities

Someone from Moldovia has an incidental encounter with a guy named Matt. Matt has a housemate that has brought someone over from Moldovia, so that is of course of interest to them. The more they look into it, the more bizarre it is, and they are led to register here through yet a second serendipitous encounter that lets them put two and two together on a fellow named Jim (Matt's housemate)who is pretending his name is Phil on said forum. Good God, it turns out he knows someone on the forum from college! They have not talked for over 30 years because one went off to Alaska to live like a mountain man and the other acts responsibly and gets a real job in Olympia, Washington. Well of course he sees his old friend posting in the very thread he is reading. They have a nice re-union, and the truth about Jim is related.

I'm going to look into the forum rules carefully to make sure I don't break one. But you better think over what you are going to say now.

[jingros 9]

Call Dominos and crack a cold one ... I think this is about to become even more interesting!

[nane1104 146]

Uh oh...

[HannahP 119]

Ha you psychiatry guys. You've been so busy with the co dependency stuff you didn't even realize we have a split personality. Don't feel bad we pass for normal all the time. Some of us

are Co dependent some of us aint. Some of our fathers were alcoholics and some of em wernt. We have rescuers and complainers. One is just a ######. yeah really a girl. We like to abuse ourselves

sometimes. We have twins, the older one is a frotteurist and the younger one has IBS, boy does that make for some embarrasing moments. While you may not have been barking up the

wrong tree, I don't think you realized how many trees we are in. :dance:

Oh my god. I have IBS too and had the most embarrassing moment last night! I do pediatric home health nursing and was caring for a ventilator-dependent child when I suddenly had to use the bathroom. Anyway, I've had IBS for a while and know when something's brewing down 'ere. Proceed to have explosive diarrhea - that made it into the toilet thank you very much! - which immediately stunk up the 500 square foot apartment. Thank GOD everyone was asleep.

/can't believe this thread is still here

//and suddenly very grateful for how my husband dealt with my BPD issues

[Dan and Judy 614]

Proceed to have explosive diarrhea - that made it into the toilet thank you very much! - which immediately stunk up the 500 square foot apartment.

We feel that under these circumstances it is best to lay the blame directly on the child.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Manipulators try to paint you as insane.

and insert words called "minimizers" or "invalidators" like this. When you couple "hysteria" with "perceived" you have the insane person who is delusional, "perceiving" things that are not there.

Exactly so. The thread management is a relentless fixation on the girl instead of our own behavior. Posts that are useful for us in manipulating the thread direction our way receive flattery. Posts that direct attention to us are... not useful. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Now for something I could not agree with more:

Talk about an understatement. Let me tell you a fascinating story, and you better listen good. Life is so amazing with serendipity sometimes. I'll just make up some names and places here, you know - to protect the real identities

Someone from Moldovia has an incidental encounter with a guy named Matt. Matt has a housemate that has brought someone over from Moldovia, so that is of course of interest to them. The more they look into it, the more bizarre it is, and they are led to register here through yet a second serendipitous encounter that lets them put two and two together on a fellow named Jim (Matt's housemate)who is pretending his name is Phil on said forum. Good God, it turns out he knows someone on the forum from college! They have not talked for over 30 years because one went off to Alaska to live like a mountain man and the other acts responsibly and gets a real job in Olympia, Washington. Well of course he sees his old friend posting in the very thread he is reading. They have a nice re-union, and the truth about Jim is related.

I'm going to look into the forum rules carefully to make sure I don't break one. But you better think over what you are going to say now.

We have never been to Moldovia, in fact we don't even know how to spell it.

Serendipity? The last thing we fell into was a lake full of pirhanha while on safari in Guyana (we are very manly and like to go on safari's) The only thing that saved us was the IBS. The pirhanha never knew what hit em. It is true we are not talking due to the vow of silence we took while sojourning with the Dali lama in the late 80's. The IBS makes that vow impossible to keep but we have stopped talking.

You are strumming our pain with your fingers

I think you found our letters and read each one out loud.

And BTW, this thread is about Olga, not us

[Phil N 4]

Oh my god. I have IBS too and had the most embarrassing moment last night! I do pediatric home health nursing and was caring for a ventilator-dependent child when I suddenly had to use the bathroom. Anyway, I've had IBS for a while and know when something's brewing down 'ere.

<TMI snipped!>

Thank GOD everyone was asleep.

can't believe this thread is still here

and suddenly very grateful for how my husband dealt with my BPD issues

I was learning to deal with my ex-fiancee's BPD issues. It was a lot of work at first. I could just be my normal self everywhere else, but around her, I had to try to always be on mental high alert for BPD-code behaviors and try to recognize and respond appropriately. It did start to get easier. Ultimately, I didn't feel that she loved me. Without feeling loved, it didn't seem worth it to go through life with the extra effort of always processing communication with her through an extra "BPD filter".

In your message, you express appreciation for your husband's efforts. Since you didn't say what your husband did or didn't do in this area, I can only guess. But it's safe to say that he felt it was worth the effort, probably because he could feel that you actually loved him.

I have to acknowledge that my ex-fiancee did notice, and comment on, and seem to appreciate my efforts at learning to communicate with her better.

I knew it was very high-risk to bring up BPD directly to her, and ask her to do an assessment and then whatever treatment was indicated, but within a 90-day window of a K-1 visa, it didn't leave a lot of time or good options.

One positive thing that came out of this is that now when I recognize BPD-style projection, rearranging of facts and sequence of events, I have some communication tools for dealing with it. I have a daughter who plays a Division I college sport, and she was complaining about one of her coaches. I recognized that this coach was doing both BPD-style projection, and also rearranging facts and sequences of events in his mind to match his emotions about certain strategies, and things he was trying to get players to do. It was extremely frustrating for her. I told her to first STOP getting into logical arguments with him, STOP wasting time and breath disputing his version of facts and sequences of events. Instead, listen to his underlying feelings about what he was trying to accomplish, acknowledge those feelings, find some core truths she could agree with about what he was saying, and go from there, that then he would be more open to hearing her ideas. I told her that during games, she should just go ahead and adjust team strategy during games (she is a team leader), and seek the coach's forgiveness later (or accept his praise and recognition for taking the initiative), instead of always feeling she always needed to convince him or get his permission up front. It's been a few weeks since I've heard her whine about this coach, so maybe it's helping.

[HannahP 119]

We feel that under these circumstances it is best to lay the blame directly on the child.

Y'know, I spent a few hours debating the morality of blaming the kiddo should the situation arise...

/luckily they also have a dog, so

[Phil N 4]

Manipulators try to paint you as insane.

and insert words called "minimizers" or "invalidators" like this. When you couple "hysteria" with "perceived" you have the insane person who is delusional, "perceiving" things that are not there.

Exactly so. The thread management is a relentless fixation on the girl instead of our own behavior. Posts that are useful for us in manipulating the thread direction our way receive flattery. Posts that direct attention to us are... not useful. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Now for something I could not agree with more:

Talk about an understatement. Let me tell you a fascinating story, and you better listen good. Life is so amazing with serendipity sometimes. I'll just make up some names and places here, you know - to protect the real identities

I'm going to look into the forum rules carefully to make sure I don't break one. But you better think over what you are going to say now.

I'm sure it would be equally interesting to hear the story told from my ex-fiancee's point of view. So use your connections and get it out there. Dee Dee and Sam seem to have had contact with her or someone posting for her, maybe they can help. So her plan to use a man she didn't love didn't work? Let's hear her side. Great Scott, don't be a tool, start a new thread with her point of view. Knock yourself out. In this thread, I'm telling it from my point of view.

I would love to know exactly what she was thinking when she grabbed and yanked the steering wheel at 60mph as we drove down the freeway and almost ran the car off the road, likely killing herself, me, and her daughter in the process. Oh yes, she was thinking, "He hates my friends, so therefore everybody in the car must die", was that it? And then two days later, not only is she NOT apologetic over the episode, she insisted to me, "it was nothing" and it was "your fault, because you hate my friends." I learned in court that when she brandished the wine bottle overhead, while standing next to me, as if to hit me, right after saying "f--- you!", that this is actually a Ukrainian form of "Cheers!" Had I married her, now THAT would have been a family court nightmare the moment something happened she didn't like.