Has this story ever turned out well for American man and Russian woman?

[nane1104 146]

Uh, excuse me, could you try to stay factual on this one, with regard to the deaf ears part?

I have repeatedly attempted to get her in for proper diagnosis. Exactly how do you propose to "force" an unwilling participant to do such a thing?

Oh, she "agreed" to do an assessment (for BPD, and possibly PTSD as well) AFTER we were married.

So that is another clue, she is trying anything and everything to achieve that *married* status, because that's apparently when her master plan kicks in.

I am sorry but I think you are making excuses. If you really wanted her evaluated, you could have easily turned it around and told her she can either go see a doc or pack her stuff and get the heck out of your house and out of your life.

If you did anything like that, you never mentioned it on here.

Fact is, that whenever someone mentioned a professional evaluation, you came back with something else and at the peak of the discussion, when people were about to just throw in the towel on the topic, you came back with how awesome she is responding to the way you are dealing with her and her attitude, well, BPD symptoms, whatever you wanna call it.

Then your ex-girlfriend comes into play again and out of a sudden your fiancee does a 180 again to the worse and that's it for you.

Sorry, but I am throwing the BS flag!

[Phil N 4]

UPDATE:

FYI, my fiance and her daughter have a normal schedule to get up sometime after 12noon/1pm (Pacific Time) and to turn in for sleep sometime after 4am. So, basically, my fiance is operating on Ukrainian time, rising at 10am there, and going to bed at 2am there.

I had arranged to take them out to my other house, which has good bus service, so they can go wherever they want that the buses will take them, while I am at work. When I show up, my fiance changes plans, and wants to go to a particular store. I drive her and her daughter to that store. They are both sitting in second row seats in the minivan; the passenger seat in front is empty. I would complain, but after the stunt my fiancee pulled during the weekend, it seems safer to not have her next to me.

When we arrive at the store, a fabric store, I give my fiance $20 to shop with, but she refuses to get out unless I give her at least $100. Money is tight right now, to say the least. I tell her that $20 is all I have for now. She says she will stay in the car and insists I must give her $80 more or she is not getting out. I park and wait about 5 minutes. She repeats her demands several times. I respond only that I do not have it. No movement. I drive back home. She and her daughter refuse to get out of the car. I need to drive back to work for the afternoon. I ask again, calmly, and I wait about 5 minutes. They remain in the car. I take a few things things out, and thankfully, I have another car. I get in it and drive to work.

Oh yes, before leaving in the other car, I try to hand my fiancee a printout with the exact information needed to contact the airline, and check out information for changing return tickets to an earlier date. She can do this easily, with her excellent English skills. She refuses the paper, and tells me to put it "anywhere". I put it on top of some of her things in the next room. So it seems she is not so interested in return tickets, when push comes to shove.

This has escalated out of control. I need to find a way, any way, to get her out of my house, and out of my life, and ASAP.

[Phil N 4]

I am sorry but I think you are making excuses. If you really wanted her evaluated, you could have easily turned it around and told her she can either go see a doc or pack her stuff and get the heck out of your house and out of your life.

If you did anything like that, you never mentioned it on here.

Fact is, that whenever someone mentioned a professional evaluation, you came back with something else and at the peak of the discussion, when people were about to just throw in the towel on the topic, you came back with how awesome she is responding to the way you are dealing with her and her attitude, well, BPD symptoms, whatever you wanna call it.

Then your ex-girlfriend comes into play again and out of a sudden your fiancee does a 180 again to the worse and that's it for you.

Sorry, but I am throwing the BS flag!

Good luck, you try getting someone to get help who doesn't want it and is certain the problem is everyone else.

There is no question that BPD is a major issue for her, and I do not feel a need to "prove" that to anyone here who questions this. Yes, things did improve for a time, as I leaned BPD-friendly communication skills. Perhaps if I had been more patient, things would have continued improving. Slowly, grudgingly, under her complete control, as I proved myself obedient and worthy. Sorry, I don't do obedient and under a woman's control well at all. Certainly there are some men who can and do. Just not me.

I have never claimed to be blameless here. I think I will go with the Romanian gal's explanation a few posts ago. There was not a proper foundation of love between us. And what others have said. We are incompatible. All the returns are in. Now it is time to find a way to end this.

[nane1104 146]

UPDATE:

FYI, my fiance and her daughter have a normal schedule to get up sometime after 12noon/1pm (Pacific Time) and to turn in for sleep sometime after 4am. So, basically, my fiance is operating on Ukrainian time, rising at 10am there, and going to bed at 2am there.

I had arranged to take them out to my other house, which has good bus service, so they can go wherever they want that the buses will take them, while I am at work. When I show up, my fiance changes plans, and wants to go to a particular store. I drive her and her daughter to that store. They are both sitting in second row seats in the minivan; the passenger seat in front is empty. I would complain, but after the stunt my fiancee pulled during the weekend, it seems safer to not have her next to me.

When we arrive at the store, a fabric store, I give my fiance $20 to shop with, but she refuses to get out unless I give her at least $100. Money is tight right now, to say the least. I tell her that $20 is all I have for now. She says she will stay in the car and insists I must give her $80 more or she is not getting out. I park and wait about 5 minutes. She repeats her demands several times. I respond only that I do not have it. No movement. I drive back home. She and her daughter refuse to get out of the car. I need to drive back to work for the afternoon. I ask again, calmly, and I wait about 5 minutes. They remain in the car. I take a few things things out, and thankfully, I have another car. I get in it and drive to work.

Oh yes, before leaving in the other car, I try to hand my fiancee a printout with the exact information needed to contact the airline, and check out information for changing return tickets to an earlier date. She can do this easily, with her excellent English skills. She refuses the paper, and tells me to put it "anywhere". I put it on top of some of her things in the next room. So it seems she is not so interested in return tickets, when push comes to shove.

This has escalated out of control. I need to find a way, any way, to get her out of my house, and out of my life, and ASAP.

At this point I think, providing her with a return ticket home is courtesy from your side. If she refuses and starts her overstay, well, good luck to her. She is not your responsibility at this point, basically you could throw her out and that's it.

I know you won't just throw her and the daughter out but IMO it's time for some tough talk from your side so she gets that you are serious with sending her back. Basically, tell her she can do it the easy way or she can have it the hard way, her choice.

If you already have a returnticket booked and you just need to change the date, wouldn't the airline already have the information needed? If it's the returnticket to the ticket she arrived on, that really shouldn't be an issue.

Good luck.

Edited August 11, 2011 by nane1104

[Phil N 4]

OK, so multiple ways of trying to get me to marry her quickly.

Withhold affection and sex. You get nothing, and like it, until we are married!

And even after we are married, it will be only when SHE desires.

Agree to do a BPD/PTSD assessment after we are married.

So the playbook is, "Get him to marry you, and quickly, by any means necessary."

I understand there are Russian-language sites for women, with a playbook on how to get the man to marry you, and quickly, and then how to file a VAWA claim to get a green card if things turn out not to the woman's liking. Perhaps others can confirm or deny the existence of such.

I don't think I have ever read of a situation turning out good for the man, where it starts with "Don't touch me, marry me immediately!"

That was why I started this thread. I'd read about this happening to others, and I couldn't believe it was happening to me! I felt,

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Is this really happening????!!!! It can't be!!! Not to me!!!! That only happens to other men, not me!!!"

I still believe her Plan A was for things to go well and for us to live happily ever after, with me "under his wife's heel", as the Russian expression apparently goes. I say the VAWA approach was only Plan B, but a very well-thought-out and ready Plan B, if Plan A wasn't going so well. One thing I did figure out, is that the VAWA plan is irrelevant if there is no marriage. So I wanted to be DARN sure, before pulling the trigger on marriage.

I was so sure that after my fiancee got here, that it would be love and passion and joy, almost from the first moment, and a life of happiness. I was 100% ready to give her everything, after 1-3 weeks together, to simply make sure things were going reasonably close to as well as I expected. At one point, we were 5 days away from getting married. If she had just done a good job of acting, during those 5 days, I would be writing to you now as a married man. But NOOOOOOOO..... instead, she pulled a classic BPD "Countermove", as the SWOE book calls it, negating an agreement we had made, and leaving me feeling used and violated. That was on Day 7, by the way, before I even knew what BPD was. She couldn't even bring herself to act for 5 days! I guess she just wasn't that into me. What an expensive and time-consuming lesson! But better to find out before marriage...

[Phil N 4]

At this point I think, providing her with a return ticket home is courtesy from your side. If she refuses and starts her overstay, well, good luck to her. She is not your responsibility at this point, basically you could throw her out and that's it.

I know you won't just throw her and the daughter out but IMO it's time for some tough talk from your side so she gets that you are serious with sending her back. Basically, tell her she can do it the easy way or she can have it the hard way, her choice.

If you already have a returnticket booked and you just need to change the date, wouldn't the airline already have the information needed? If it's the returnticket to the ticket she arrived on, that really shouldn't be an issue.

Good luck.

Yes, the airline has the information. I gave her a printout with the record locator information and the customer service number to call. I thought she would take the printout and get busy calling and finding options for earlier flights back, and sharing those with me.

[nane1104 146]

Yes, the airline has the information. I gave her a printout with the record locator information and the customer service number to call. I thought she would take the printout and get busy calling and finding options for earlier flights back, and sharing those with me.

Why would she do that?

Change the tickets, tell her the date they will be leaving and if she doesn't go, she is out on the streets...her choice.

[Phil N 4]

Why would she do that?

Change the tickets, tell her the date they will be leaving and if she doesn't go, she is out on the streets...her choice.

Her concerns, that she expressed to me, are getting her daughter back in time for the start of school in September.

She may also want to spend more time with her friends who live 1.5 hours drive away.

For all I know, she will choose to stay here illegally.

I don't want to spend the money on reticketing ($800 or so) without a clear commitment from her.

[nane1104 146]

Well, it's already mid August, not much time left if she wants her daughter back in school.

I don't think having her chose the return date will make her more willing to get on that plane, you say it yourself, you think she will remain here illegally. Even if she gave you a date, that doesn't mean she will GET on that airplane.

You would be out of that money anyway.

I know $800 is a lot of money but if you get out of this whole ordeal with "only" $800, can call yourself lucky...imagine she stays longer, the situation escalates and you will have to pay for lawyers or even bail yourself out of jail because she might have you arrested under false accusations.

Really, at this point, go the fastes way, not the cheapest!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Put her up in a hotel. You do understand that if she stays in your house longer than 30 days in some states, you will have to legally EVICT her because she will gain tenant rights????? That process alone can take months. She is not your responsibility. Change the airline ticket, put her up in a hotel until the day of the flight, and never talk to her again. Whatever she does is not your problem, from then on. You are not legally responsible for her in any way.

Please, this has been suggested to you before pages ago in this thread, and only now you see the severity of the situation?

[TBoneTX 45,361]

Dude: You've had it, and so have we.

Harpa's recommendation is good, but here's perhaps an even better one.

You're apparently in California. Ideally, in the southern half.

Load the girls in your car and say "Like a family, we're going to take a little trip to change our environment and go shopping." Give the fiancee $100 in her hand, to make the situation look legitimate.

Drive to San Diego. Park on the U.S. side. Take a pedestrian bridge into Mexico (presumably there are such at one or more of the Tijuana crossings). Lose them in a crowd, or on the pretext of finding a bathroom, or, once you're all across, say something like "Oh, ####### -- I forgot something in the car. Wait here; I'll be right back." (I recommend the first option.) Beat it back to the entry bridge to the U.S., and re-enter. They will be unable to. Problem permanently solved, very cheaply and efficiently.

You're out of other options. If I were in your situation and the fiancee absolutely refused to return to her home country, I would do this without qualms.

Edited August 11, 2011 by TBoneTX

[DeeDee&Sam 68]

im sorry if i offended anyone with my questions about borderline symptoms, but i did it because i have 7 years of human psychology behind me + 4 of psychiatry, mostly for children but that applies to grownups too.

honestly @TBoneTX, i understand she might be a mentally sick person, but only a monster could do what you are suggesting. you are talking about 2 human beings there. you cant just abandon 2 people in an unknown country with 100$ and live hapily ever after. i assure you, he wont be able to sleep at night after that. i think there are legal ways of doing this. if she doesnt leave involve the immigration services. make sure you know where they live so they can be picked up and deported by force.

[106206 15]

"When we arrive at the store, a fabric store, I give my fiance $20 to shop with, but she refuses to get out unless I give her at least $100. Money is tight right now, to say the least. I tell her that $20 is all I have for now. She says she will stay in the car and insists I must give her $80 more or she is not getting out."

[Phil N 4]

im sorry if i offended anyone with my questions about borderline symptoms, but i did it because i have 7 years of human psychology behind me + 4 of psychiatry, mostly for children but that applies to grownups too.

honestly @TBoneTX, i understand she might be a mentally sick person, but only a monster could do what you are suggesting. you are talking about 2 human beings there. you cant just abandon 2 people in an unknown country with 100$ and live hapily ever after. i assure you, he wont be able to sleep at night after that. i think there are legal ways of doing this. if she doesnt leave involve the immigration services. make sure you know where they live so they can be picked up and deported by force.

TBoneTX's idea sounded so appealing... I'm closer to Canada, but unfortunately I don't think you can just walk into Canada like with Mexico.

[Phil N 4]

UPDATE:

Last night, when I came home, my ex-fiancee was back to speaking to me only in Russian, and yelling at that.

I again gave her the paper with return flight info, sliding it under the door of the room she and her daughter stay in. An hour later, she gave it back to me, saying, she "needed more time" and that I could be certain she would not be returning to her country without me giving her a lot of money. (I think a couple thousand is what she has in mind) Just a few hours earlier, my ex-fiancee had written me an email calling me abusive because I hadn't already gotten earlier return tickets. So I don't know which way is up with that girl.

The #1 ex-girlfriend, who I will now refer to as the "re-girlfriend", or just "my girlfriend" texted me and suggested it was time for her to come over. I weighed the pros and cons, and agreed. So my re-girlfriend stayed with me last night and will be here through the weekend. I am planning to go to court today and get the ex-fiancee out with a temporary protection order. At this point, the ex-fiancee has been so unstable and out of control, that where she goes is not my problem. I did find that Safeplace women's shelter will take her, if she simply claims to be a victim.

So the re-girlfriend arrived, we partied up in my room with her and a renter who lives on the bottom floor of my 3-story house, and after a couple-three Jaeger-bombs, around midnight, my ex-fiancee knocked on the door, and asked us to turn the music down. (The room she is in is across the hallway on the same floor, 3rd floor). So, the two girls had a nasty little verbal exchange, and the ex-fiancee stuck her hand in the door to stay in our space when my girlfriend went to close the door. I had to stop the girlfriend from mashing the ex-fiancee's wrist in the door, and try to resolve things a little more coolly. The ex-fiancee said something about how she would call the police and demand her rights, etc.

She went away, I closed the door, and we went back to partying having our own little karaoke party. Unfortunately, when I went downstairs to get the bottle of coconut rum, it turned out it was nearly all gone, from my ex-fiancee's drinking activity that day. So we scrounged some vodka and Baileys from my cabinet. My girlfriend pointed out that the ex-fiancee is an alcoholic, because of the way my liquor cabinet had been decimated in the 30 days the ex-fiance has been here. I have (had) a passable liquor stock, but since I don't drink much, it usually lasts a long time. Not with the ex-fiancee around.

Anyway, later today, my plan is to go to court and request a protection order from my ex-fiancee.